If you feel like the new 04 Max has problems... here is a list of problems on the new 04 Acura TL. See, others are having quality control issues too.

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FROM THE ACURA TL FORUM
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This is just a summary of all the previous posts (sorry its so Long) if I've missed something, please add:

Summary List of Early build Flaws

6MT

1. Popping out of gear (mostly 1st) (some replaced 1st gear, main and counter shaft)
2. Difficulty getting tranny into 2nd and 4th gears

5AT/NAV and 6MT

1. Vibrations at 35 and 55
2. Memory in Seats lost for no apparent reason
3. software upgrade for misfires instead of coil pack replacement
4. Glove box rattle, warped or misaligned.
5. Re-calibrated Crankshaft position sensor
6. stuck thermostat valve
7. Hood misaligned
8. trim areas not flush
9. door handle inserts missing
10. rattle in sun visor housing when open or closed
11. ‘headliner’ not flush with trim
12. ‘parcel tray’ rattle with loud music near subwoofer (never heard it called the parcel tray)
13. ‘click’ when applying brakes (hear this in other Hondas)
14. Plastic ‘wiper’ inside door frame scratches tinted windows (need felt)
15. Sulfur or rotten egg smell with hard acceleration
16. Steering wheel alignment off on delivery and also after delivery and driving
17. MID flashing at high RPMs
18. Butt wrinkle/padding in seats
19. Miles to empty not accurate in MID – possibly gas guage not accurate (fewer posts on this)
20. Engine shifting to overdrive too soon for engine speed
21. Parking brake out of adjustment – too loose (car uses gear instead of the e-brake=parking brake) up or down hill.
22. Carpet out of drivers door trim
23. A-piller sticking out from trim/buckling/bubling
24. Center dash speaker cover rattle
25. Other isolated trim issues (one time occurances)
26. Rear quarter panel where window meets trunk – WELD Mark
27. Driver side wind noise
28. NO Heat (mentioned twice)
29. Outside temp read off

Below is an early list in the thread (many similar to above);

1. Headliner on drivers side is in contact with windshield so it clicks over bumps (2 known cases) – Dealer found broken mounting clips, repaired other case was fixed with felt
2. Drivers door leather was not tucked in near aluminum trim, reinserted it.
3. Steering wheel is off to right, car tracks straight, wheel needs adjustment, dealer did not fix.
4. Parking brake is out of adjustment, have to pull to top to get it to not rely on transmission. Dealer repaired, but within 2 days out of adjustment again, need to re-adjust, especially noticeable on a downhill incline.
5. Outside temperature reading in MID is about 8 degrees high (even after driving), after dealer fix, now 7 degrees off.
6. Driver’s window vibrates at top when fully closed (if down slightly, it is ok). Dealer adjusted window regulator (others have complained about this)
7. About 8 paint defects (small, very small imperfections, such as particles or dust under clear coat) and one scratch near lower black grill near center of car.
8. Rear deck rattled (many complaints of this) with radio on – fixed with foam at center of deck where it meets rear window as it was vibrating against window.
9. Gaps inconsistent in hood to fender fit, both sides, and drivers front fender to headlight. Also, plastic rocker molding on drivers side was about ½” in behind front wheel
10. Leather wrinkles on lower seat bolster in outboard position (not only one to indicate this) – regional says this is normal. Treated the leather this last weekend.
11. Butt print on seat bottom (many complaints)
12. Vibration in car at different speeds (not only one to complain) – dealer rebalanced tires, better, but regional said with these low profile tires, when cold, they are slightly out of round, and when heated, it will go away (I have seen this also, and there was another post on this. Not sure if tranny related.
13. Glove box rattled (other complaints on this also) – dealer moved striker in
14. Memory seat setting disappeared (other complaint about this also)
15. Pass front door rattles occasionally (other complaints) – not found
16. Third brake light cover was loose, rattled with bass and also allowed red light to shine on inside of rear C pillars – dealer repaired.
17. Fuel gauge slightly off, at ¼ takes 10 gallons, 7 gal left.
18 Car up shifts way too early, at steady cruse (not pushing it) it is in 4th just shy of 30mph and 5th just shy of 45mph, makes cruising at these speeds full of vibration as engine lugs as it is not turning enough rpms.
19. Part of back edge of star portion of wheel/rim is not smooth, was not sanded/finished properly, also one is not painted on center hub portion (can not see unless you look inside where it mates to rotor.
20. One exhaust tip has a large silver weld exposed inside tip, visible from rear of car.
21. Noise when pulling away when car is cold and normal acceleration, sounds like a flap is being actuated, but felt throughout car, lasts less than a second (other complaint on this) – dealer did not find.
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Hmmm, all of a sudden the burnt out odometer light in my 98 GLE doesn't seem so annoying. Cuz thats about all that has gone wrong with it in the two years i've owned it.

Thanks for the cheer up .

 

Hater!

7890

 

 

Seems like a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side." I'd say the TL has about the same number of issues as the 2k4 Max. Too many for both of these relatively high priced vehicles.

CM.

 

i also have the "butt print" on my seats...looks like the leather is stretched out but does not look normal. anybody else have this problem?

 

I had the driver's seat bottom replaced under warranty on my 2k1 AE for this problem. The dealer didn't argue about it, just did it.

 

Sad, I thought they would have done better, as the last gen TL had quality issues. Trannies are going already too.

It's not that the cars are built in America, it's how the company and their management are allowing this to happen.

 

I am sure some will say that it is because it is built in the US, I was actually surprised that it didn't.

That is a longer list than I have seen here, and the thing has only been out a few months.

 

are you serious??

The autos? Or the manuals...

 

Yup, brands previously know for being bulletproof and offer a lot of value ( and those with the opposite reputation) are being squeezed by their exec management to produce more sales and profits. Nissan, Honda, GM, Ford, Chysler/DB are all pincing pennies when it comes to suppliers/parts and assembly to cut costs and the results are predictable. The new world order seems to be to spend money on a flashy design, get it market fast, don't put anything more into the car than necessary for it to last through the warranty period and strictly control warranty costs to the dealer. Even BMW which generally has much better or quality parts input is being plagued by software gliches on its new I-control system and BMW service to the consumer has done straight into the toilet if there is indeed a problem.

The only high volume brand left, IMO, that still is a well put together quality automobile with impecable customer service under $70K is Lexus. How do you think these companies are increasing profits at about the same price level with about the same sales figures. They are cutting the crap out of what the consumer doesn't immediately 'see' with the savings going back to the OEM. After the sale (which is all they really care about and why so much goes into marketing vs building quality automobiles), when the consumer has a problem, too late. Concurrently, there are cash programs to the dealer to keep warranty costs/car low and they we have the ....it is normal, can't replicate problem, etc, etc.

What I always admired about Nissan and why I have owned over 14 of their cars through the years was their coporate philosophy in being above this and producing autos that were indeed good value for the money and above average in quality with a solid committment to customer service after the sale. Now they are just like the rest. No better, no worse.

I'd gladly pay 5% more for a 'quality' auto but the OEMs either do not think there are enough folks out there willing to do so and/or believe they do not have to in order to compete with each other anymore.

My next car will either be used or something I should probably start saving my pennies for right now. Pretty pathetic industry practices IMO.

 

[QUOTE]The autos? Or the manuals.The only high volume brand left, IMO, that still is a well put together quality automobile with impecable customer service under $70K is Lexus. How do you think these companies are increasing profits at about the same price level with about the same sales figures. They are cutting the crap out of what the consumer doesn't immediately 'see' with the savings going back to the OEM. After the sale (which is all they really care about and why so much goes into marketing vs building quality automobiles), when the consumer has a problem, too late. Concurrently, there are cash programs to the dealer to keep warranty costs/car low and they we have the ....it is normal, can't replicate problem, etc, etc.[QUOTE]

Well, it is a very short sighted way to do business. Competition is getting heavier and heavier where no car maker is going to control ANY market. So if someone is unhappy, loyalty will soon be gone, as they have other choices.

Funny thing is, the cars are costing more and more. With more features but less quality.

 

It may appear short sighted but if most all the OEMs choose not to compete on 'quality' (which appears to be the case these days), what choice does one have? It appears that most all of the OEMs have decided to forego quality and reliability in favor of styling, tehno gadets and price. What major car magazine ever differentiates cars on quality and reliability? None. And the average buyer has now come to expect all sorts of problems and horendous dealer service as normal.Unfortuntately, expect more of the same in the future. As long as it looks good, last through the warranty and has a competitive price that gets the average consumer to buy it, that's all the OEM cares about. Same thing happened in the airline industry. They stopped competing on service, etc and only concentrated on price as it was less costly for them and that's what they thought most folks wanted. Pretty pathetic IMO.

 

Nissan customer service is still a lot worse than their competition, IMO. And JDPA service surveys seem to agree. I visit a lot of forums and between the big 3 of Japan Nissan's service is by far the worse. If you have a Toyota or Honda you'll probably actually get some half decent service. But post after post here people complain about getting the lame "that's normal" or even more frustrating "couldn't reproduce problem" excuses for what are OBVIOUS problems.

As for quality, Honda seems to have slipped recently. Not just a little. A LOT. Meanwhile our Toyota Highlander has been flawless.

 

I hear you, but what do you think of the claims from JD Power & Associates annual ownership survey? Every year the average problems per vehicle goes down. According to them, things seem to be getting better (in general) every year.

 

My own opinion related to the surveys is as follows. First, there is a significant amount of pressure from the dealer/sales folks on the consumer to provide good ratings including the "i'll give you a better deal but don't forget to give us 100% on the survey" and the fear factor of giving a bad survey and getting bad dealer service in return. Second, many of these surveys are sent out and completed within the first 2-4 weeks of ownership. Many of the quality/reliability issues manifest themselves further down the road. Personally, I think the surveys should be done not less than six months after the initial puirchase. Quality issues such as paint, rattles, rotors, shimmys, electronics software, powertrain, general build quality and dealer service assessment can be better evaluated. Lastly, I think many consumers these days suffer from what I will call an attitude of lowered expectations. The "it is to be expected to have problems with a new car or new model" or " except for this, this and that, the car is ok" or "yeah, there are a lot of issues and dealer service sucks but I got a good deal", etc is a pretty sad commentary of what we have been conditioned to expect from not only auto OEMs but other companies in general.

 

I guess I am lucky... the staff at my Nissan dealer do a tremendous job... and it's not just with me... it's with all of their customers... I see it all the time with my own eyes.