ThunderMaxi

I am only 26, but I have liked Nissans ever since my dad bought my mom a 210 wagon in powder blue in 1982. That car was driven hard here in the states and then we drove it to Honduras where we sold it to a man who made it a taxi. Acuras are nice, but I don't feel as sporty in an Acura as I do in my Maxima. I have heard about tranny problems and that is not something that I would touch with a ten foot pole. Nissan has made a resurgence with very exciting cars and I think I will stick with them. After I graduate from Grad school I will be buying an 06 Max or Pathfinder.

hofb99

Okay...first off, of course I'm biased! THIS IS A 6TH GEN MAXIMA FORUM!!! For crying out loud... As far as cutting costs w/ the interior...just how did Nissan do that? Brainwashed? No. Satisfied? Yes. Let me share...

I'll start off w/ the fact that I've been a die hard Nissan Maxima aficionado since 16 yrs old, and I absolutely hated the 6th Gen MAX when they first introduced it. It was BUTT UGLY in my eyes...to put it simply... I hated the exterior and despised what I thought they did to the interior. Long story short, I didn't realize how "refined" a car the new MAX was until I rented one. I saw it up close and sat in it. And this is after coming out of a 300M! I've heavily driven (while in Germany) the BMWs, Volvos, Opels, etc...European engineering @ its best...so it's safe to say I'm qualified to make a sound judgement on this subject matter. After I sat in the MAX, I was "sold"!!! You can't appreciate the design/workmanship put into the car until you've sat in it, started it up, and driven it. Truly a great experience. Even after renting the car for about a month's time (while my insurance company was determining the fate of my wrecked minivan), I was stuck on buying one. So...

How can you call yourself "CoolMax"? A little "insanity" (or, brainwashing, as you refer to it) is acceptable in this venue because it's a MAX enthusiast's place to conduct theirself in such a way. So, I'm going to assume that you've had bad/indifferent experiences w/ owning a MAX...which if that is the case, then I concede and fully understand your perspective...

But, just as I called out pruizgarcia above, please explain how the interiors are so much "different"...and give me details...please...

Slink

Lots of good points on both sides. I think for me it will probably come down to price (If I can get the max for 3 - 4k less than the tl I'll probably go with the max. Otherwise if the price diff is closer I'll probably go with the tl.)

And its good to know that there's not blind "the max is the best car" type following here. Reading similar posts on acurazine.com (from a tl owners perspective) it seems like alot of tl owners think their car is comparable to a 525i and blows the 325i out of the water. I think both the max and tl are great cars but I find the tl owners comparisons to cars that are 10 - 20k more absurd (as if the cars have nothing on the tl).

Slink

hofb99

On a more lighter note, pruizgarcia... Why are you using a red top Optima instead of yellow? Do you let your MAX sit long periods of time?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Umm, what was your best argument?? ROAD PRESENCE???? Yeah right. Counter my points one by one and maybe we will have a conversation. Maxima is nice. Powerfull motor. But it's a maxima, not god's chariot. Wake up and have a nice day.

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

A reshaped dash with real aluminum trim and plenty of soft-touch materials gives this TL an authentic luxury car ambience.
Materials quality, though certainly not bad in the previous TL, is improved for 2004. There's even genuine aluminum trim on the console and doors.



While some may not call the center stack pretty, we were pleased with the faux suede and brushed aluminum trim.

hofb99

Well put, Slink. I agree. And I'm not trying to advertise my car as the best on earth...simply stating that for $26.9K, I got a whole lot of bang for my buck! Agreed?

As you can see, I'm very passionate about owning a MAX...no "nay-sayer" here!

hofb99

"God's Chariot?" I'm a God-fearing person, and I think you just crossed the line... My goodness, there a whole lot of other much more appealing vehicles out there than the TL... To label it as "God's chariot"? Okay, I think I'm done w/ you...

PEACE!!!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Um I said it was NOT god's chariot. YOU are the one that implied that designation.

Here are some more of your fellow maxima owners reviewing the TL
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=361978

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

Since you admit to being biased, are you capable of thinking above that level and being objective?

What the hell does your screenname mean? Who cares....

Actually I loved the Maximas I've had since 16, but I'm aware how things have changed in the last 5 years and that even though a Maxima might be faster from 0-60 and in the 1/4, that there are better cars out there.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

How many maximas have won any races?

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1071962&page=1

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

Damn, I never realized how ugly the 6th gen is in the pics, at least it looks better in person.

DougJones

Comparing the interior pics above, the TL gives more of a German car vibe IMHO. I think that it's due to all of the buttons on the center stack. I think that, as already stated, they are both great cars and it's going to come to personal preference. I preferred the look of the Max and price wasn't an issue. That is not to say that the TL isn't a looker because it is.

I think that the real question is are you prepared to deal with the tranny issues in the TL if they arise. The Max has it's share of issues, but nothing on the level of the tranny issues that the TLs are having.

hofb99

Point taken. I understand that using "faux" materials would cut major costs... That's a valid point IMO. But pictures don't do any justice for sitting in the car. To me, the center stack is perfectly adjusted to my needs. And simple to navigate...to me... Keep in mind, we're in a MAX forum, not an Acura forum... Also, you're comparing the Navi edition of the TL interior (high end) to the run-of-the-mill edition of the MAX... Navi vs. non-Navi, no comparison...

I'll give you this, though... I prefer the 4-spoke steering wheel over the 3 any day! That's why I'm a bit more comfortable handling the wheel in my wife's Pathfinder. But as you can see, just from the pics, ergonomics is streamlined in the MAX. The TL's ergonomics is a bit "spread" and has me searching for stuff... And the big **** controls? That's a throwback to early 70s audio design. I don't like permanent throwback fixtures... Let's move forward. As the NFL teams chose to wear throwback uniforms for their Thanksgiving performances, they just assume keep w/ their more up to date uniforms for the rest of the season... Big ***** in a car? No. I do like the after dark lighting. That's cool. I'll take that over the orange display in the MAX. Curved arpetures throughout the cabin? Me no like. I'm happy w/ my interior. You guys (pseudo MAX enthusiasts) can downgrade it all you want, but fact is...I'm an individual who individually loves my MAX. And I receive plenty exhalting feedback from people of all walks of life to confirm it, so... Have your TL...and it's tranny/electronics issues, and boring interior. I'm a satisfied buyer. I just feel sorry for those MAX owners who have bought into the MAX for the first time around and having a bad experience. How unfortunate. And I am disappointed that the car is manufactured here in the States. The Japan product gave that mystical "foreign" feel and was put together much better... My point of view...

joemax1

[QUOTE=DougJones]Comparing the interior pics above, the TL gives more of a German car vibe IMHO. I think that it's due to all of the buttons on the center stack. I think that, as already stated, they are both great cars and it's going to come to personal preference....

I agree. It's all a matter of personal preference. Every make will always have it's own set of problems. Even high-end cars like Mercedes and BMW's have low ratings in the Consumer Report! So it really depends on what you really want in a car, not WHAT OTHERS THINK YOU SHOULD WANT IN A CAR. just my 2 cents....

hofb99

Ummm... You stating that it was not God's chariot, directly infers that you're saying that the TL is... State clearly what you intend to put across to us...

hofb99

[QUOTE=joemax1]Thank you. Jeff92se, you're a diluted moderator and obviously not a loyal MAX fan. I concede that there are better cars out there, but for $26.9K? You haven't addressed that. And I'm not trying to own a sports car. I like the sports sedan just the way it was intended to be...family sedan w/ muscle and stylish looks... Even YOU can't erase all the stares and comments and gawking and inquiries that I get on a daily basis, ALMIGHTY DOG!!!

I'm truly done this time guys. Being that this is a 6th Gen Forum, I was simply pointing out the positive for the MAX and needing to know why certain MAX owners are so quick to put down their own vehicle and opt for something that costs $2 - $4K more...??? Anyway, I realize there are much better cars out there, but w/in the $25K - $35K price range, you can't find anything better than the MAX.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

TL is better IMHO. And I clearly stated why. You on the other hand had no other logical reasoning.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

WTF? haha. I look at the new TL and say, "wow, what a good looking car and a great performer". I look at the new maxima and say "ahoy there matey!". What a land yaught.

You get what you pay for right? You know what? I'd rather have the Subaru Legacy turbo sedan/wagon for those prices.

VaMax04

Best V6 in the Wolrd.....can't ask for more!!!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

See that is a valid argument statement. I agree with him. I really like the 3.5VQ. But I'd rather have it in the 5.5 gen or I35.

ThunderMaxi

Max and TL are different classes of car. If you want to compare Acura vs Nissan you should look at its lineage. The Max has been around alot longer and has always looked stunning. Does anyone remember the blowfish look of the TL's of '97ish... Also, the Maxima is more of a sports sedan where a TL is more of a luxury sedan that tries to compete with BMW, Mercedes. If you go apples to apples, I think the adequate choice is to compare the G35 with the TL and the Max with the TSX. That is if you look at it with dollars. we can agree to disagree, but my money is on the Maxima.

Speaking from Supply and demand, the only reason that the TL maintains its value over the Maxima is that there are less TL's out there than Maximas. Look at Acura lots and there aren't many of them there. Look at a Nissan lot and you have many Maximas. Also, Nissan has kicked itself by allowing rental car companies to buy the Maximas and rent them out. This depreciates the value of the car...

Ford did this depreciation to the Jaguar the minute that it bought it and tried to make it look like "everyman's car" when it was actually a prestige brand.

My .02...maybe .03

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

IMHO, what kills the resale value of the Maxima is Nissan's willingness to offer rebates 6 months after the release of the car. You don't see this with Acura.

TL FWD 4 door. Maxima FWD 4 door. Aside from the slightly higher price, they are direct competitors. I guarantee you most who are looking for a family car in this size, are looking at both.

TL vs G35. Price points might be closer. But the G is smaller and is RWD. Not the greatest of comparisions. The G is that much better IMHO. Plus the G was squarely targeted against the 3 series BMW. Another 2-4 door in the same size and RWD.

ThunderMaxi

Agree jeff92se with the comparisons, but when people are looking at a particular price range, they look at 35k car to 35k car... The TL/Maxima comparison baffles me almost as much as people who compare the Maxima to the Audis. I had this happen to me when I was working at a dealership in Houston. This woman had the audacity to tell me that she was comparing the Max to the Audi. Different class of cars. Has Car adn Driver compared the TL and Max?

Bottom line for me is that I have always liked the styling of the Maxima, and the tranny issues with the Tl can't be helping it.

With Nissan making so many Maximas they have to offer rebates to keep themselves afloat. The best marketing Nissan did was with the Xterra back in 2000. Those puppies were selling for $7000 over sticker when they first came out. If Nissan did awesome campaigns for the Maxima, it wouldn't be underselling it. The 2000 commercial for the Maxima made my heart race, the 2004 commercials, not so much. They need to take the Max back to 4DSC and show that it will make you wet yourself and get your groceries.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

ThunderMaxi. You have to realize most people are dumb. Price is about the only thing they look vs just looks. Rarely do people really research the car they buy. But when you look at the month payment differences for $32k and $35k, it's not that different. That's what most look at. (unfortunately)

pruizgarcia

iTrader: (1)

Hofb99: Didn't need the yellow top since I don't have anything eating juice. The red top so far has been good to me.

Another thing that I forgot to mention is that the TL was around $3K over the Max that I purchased. With the extra mula, I bought me some good tires and rims, a radar detector and still had money left to fly to Vegas, gamble, drink, party and return home in one piece...

Pedro

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

Ever hear about people complainging about too many buttons for the basic functions? Well, simple, large ***** are usually the best solution to that problem. As for your comparison to the throwback NFL...it's creative.


Well, newbie, if being an enthusiast of all automobiles makes me a "pseudo max enthusiast" so be it.

ThunderMaxi

Jeff, I know what you mean. My Bachelor's is in Automotive Marketing Management and people are very dumb. Hello, othewise how could the Ford Taurus be so popular. I have worked in every facet of the car dealership and the ignorance of people plus the 100+ hours a week made me leave the field...

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

You spent the $3k you "saved" up front? Ok, just don't sell the car or you can kiss the money you saved goodbye - Maxima vs. TL resale/depreciation.

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

Isn't that the purpose of the current Altima SE-R?

ThunderMaxi

But it's something that was coined for the Maxima. The Maxima is still the 4DSC, but Nissan needs to actively pursue it since they are trying to be all cars for all people instead of sticking with audiences like us who see its true potential to be a beast on the road.

pruizgarcia

iTrader: (1)

Coolmax:

It only applies if you are selling the vehicle on your own. I trade-in my vehicles, so I get what I want in return. I have never, ever, not received what I wanted at trade-in time. If one dealer would not give me what I wanted, I always found one who would. Just my two cents.

Pedro

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Actually Thundermax Car and Driver Did'nt but Motor Trend did in the 3/2003 issue, they compared the A4 3.0 Quatrro vs the Max SE not the TL but many pubs always have the Max as an alternative to the TL adn vis versa. The Quatrro won in the Quality dept, but the Max did in most performance categories. The Max never use to get knocked for interior quality until 04 which isnt that bad but I will say that a loaded 5.5 Gen interior does look more classy than the 6th gens. The 6th gen just has an exposed plastic look/unused space to the center dash area near the radio and doesnt have the leather/ette inserts in the door that many expect in this class.

3.5 Lover

I am glad our Max owners for the most part will stick by it no matter what anyone says. Now that is loyalty and why I stick by my Nissan and still like my Acura. Both are good cars anyway you look at it. The Max is being compared to an excellent car no matter what some may say. That is commendable, so Max owners like myself, be proud you have a great car that others envy.

lightonthehill

The preference is in the eye of the beholder.

There is no question (if we ignore the major tranny problem) the TL is a fine car. It has a conservative look that appeals to many. It is that same conservative look that results in my never noticing the TL unless I am right behind one in traffic. By contrast, the Maxima is easy to spot. Very dramatic styling. Some like that. Some don't.

As for driving differences, I usually drive my son's TL Type 'S' whenever he and I are travelling near his home. I find his TL drives rather similarly to my 6th gen SL. I also notice the same differences I found when test-driving the TL just over a year ago. To wit: the interior of the TL (just as the G35) feels more confining, both in the front seat and the back. Consumer's Report measurements confirm this.

Sometimes little things can make a difference. For instance, being retired, I take long leisurely trips, and always drive with my right hand at the 4 or 5 o'clock position, and when I rest my right hand, I keep my left hand at the 7 or 8 o'clock position. That has always been an uncomfortable problem with my 5th gen SE, and is also a problem with my son's TL, as those positions are blocked in both those cars by very wide spokes. The 6th gen, however, has those positions clear, and is so much more comfortable for me.

I will admit being prejudiced toward the Maxima, as I have always loved Maxima styling. But I am not predudiced enough to attempt to claim the current Maxima is better than the current TL. I feel a 'maxed out' Maxima is very similar to the TL, with personal preferences determining which car is best for any particular driver.

Y2KMaxGXE-R

iTrader: (4)

what is a better car on the road today for $32K that will be a 4-dr sedan, all options including navi, 0-60 time under 7 seconds, manual tranny option, decent resale value, decent handling and room?

joemax1

AMEN to that Light!!!

joemax1

6th Gen Maxima. Period. But then again, that's just me.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Subaru Legacy turbo? 0-60 in like 6 sec, awd, 250hp

tibbettscp

Slick,
I have an '05 Maxima SE with DPP and Navi, and my wife has an '04 TL with Navi, all I can say is that it is based on your own personal perferrance, the Max is quite capable of keeping up with the TL in every catagory performance and styling and the creature comforts are just as good if not better, ie heated and power telescoping steering wheel, bigger wheels, etc. The TL navi system is, however, far superior to the Max i.e Voice activated controls. So it all depends on how you think it looks; either way you have definitly made a sound choice.