This is my personal opinion, but since front-wheel drive gets bashed so much I wanted to defend it a little.

I've had many, many cars, both with FWD and RWD, and both have some benefits. When it comes down to it, though, I might have to cast my vote for FWD, and here's why:

1. FWD cars have a good feel when accelerating, since they do not have the lag that comes from a long driveshaft and rear-mounted differential. That makes them feel lively and quick. (Don't beat me up about torque steer, which wil be covered later as a separate issue.)

2. FWD cars get better gas mileage. There are just fewer driveline frictional losses involved in a front-drive/transaxle setup, so these configurations are more efficient.

3. FWD cars have a front-end weight bias, which lends them nicely-weighted steering, solid tracking and good road feedback. The understeer this induces is also a safety factor for most driving conditions, and understeer is actually engineered into cars that are lighter in the front.

4. The same weight bias gives a FWD car stability in situations like spins and slides. A "neutral" car doesn't care which end is going which way in an all-out skid, since the weight is distributed evenly. It's like a pinwheel on a stick. A car with a heavier nose, however, has a "pendulum effect" which makes it want to go straight ahead. (I learned this the hard way on a slick road in a new BMW 540i a few years back. BMW's are known for their 50/50 weight balance.)

5. As we all know, FWD cars are easier to drive in ice, snow, mud and other slick conditions because the drive wheels pull, whereas RWD cars push. Ever tried pushing a rope?

6. FWD cars are roomier inside, since they don't need transmission tunnels running front to rear, and the engine can be positioned sideways where it is narrower. This also allows for more trunk room, since a bulky diff doesn't have to take up room back there.

7. FWD cars are inherently simpler mechanically, since there's no need to have driveshafts, U-joints, differentials and related parts spread around the car.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but these major ones spring to mind right away.

And, yes, there is torque steer, but IMO that becomes a (minor) issue only under really hard acceleration, which is something most of us do only infrequently ... maybe 1-2% of our total driving time. RWD cars have the opposite problem - that is, fishtailing - so it's a wash.

Some people feel there is a handling penalty to FWD, but I think that is an issue only in track usage, which most of us never see.

So, I personally feel the advantages of FWD outweigh any possible disadvantages. You're welcome to disagree, of course, but at least one of us thinks FWD is a good overall solution.

I'm pretty happy with my good ol' FWD Maxima!

 

Heh...this is actually a pretty decent. I agree with all you have to say, except for the mileage bit.

 

I agree w/ most point, but FWD cars beat RWD on the track regulary in many touring car series. Closer weight distribution is more favorable in tighter/emergency maneuvers; but with FWD, it usually goes where you point. RWD can fishtail into a ditch, FWD can plow into a ditch. Same result.

 

I don't know about that. Logic dicates that cars that have to power and steer from the same two wheels typically aren't the best handling. Especially when those wheels are in the front.

Racing that features both fwd/rwd also have rules to make all the cars competitive. Racing where the drive wheels are not mandated will almost always feature rwd as the preferred choice.

But I agree, for 95% of the consumer, fwd is perfectly fine. Especially in the wet and winter times. The Acura TSX and TL-S are other fine examples of fwd cars that also handle well.

I've owned fwd for sometime. But I'm electing to move to rwd for my next car. Hopefully an used 2003 G35 sedan.

 

Mike, can you explain a little bit more about #3? I want to know why understeer is considered safer...some of my friends swear by their rwd and how they perform better in turns...and they bash fwd cuz of the understeer and how u could potentially crash...although I did hear from someone that understeer is safer and I would like to know why?

 

FWD:
1) If you enter a turn too fast, the front will start to slide (understeer). To correct, you can just hit the brakes and the front will come into line again.

2) Or if you power out of turn too much, understeer again. But letting off the gas will bring into line again.

RWD:
1) rearend will slide out (oversteer). Hitting the brakes will sometimes stop the slide. But if it doesn't, you are suddenly facing traffic
2) Again, oversteer. But if you are too far into the slide. You face traffic again.

Also when powering out of a turn with fwd, letting off the gas doesn't do much but stop the slide. Not too much steering correction required. Try to fix a fishtailing fwd in the snow or rain is VERY difficult. You usually end up going back and forth worse and worse.

 

That why I said closer weight distribution is more favorable in tighter/emergency maneuvers. As far as mandated races, FWD still pushes through and RWD still pushes out of a turn. In a hairpin turn, for example, RWD can attack it better. I believe this thread was started because of other threads in regard to torque steer and the track. That's how I based my answer.

 

You would not have made that statement if you knew what goes on in the guidelines to keep the cars competitive.

 

I don't know that it is more simple mechanically. I would be willing to bet that turning the engine sideways and essentially making the transmission into two peices with the differential built in is quite a bit more complex.

Not to mention that it is much easier to work on with the parts spread all over the car. Very rarely do RWD cars have problems with the differential, but it is almost guaranteed that a FWD car will need new CV joints if it is driven long enough.

I pretty much agree with everything else. But I do the wrenching on my cars and I have had several FWD and RWD cars. Give me that RWD to work on any day of the week.

Scott D.

 

Note I said simpler mechanically, and added that driveline parts aren't spread around over the car. The main reasons the industry went to FWD were 1. Fuel economy and 2. Mechanical simplicity.

The simplicity arises from the fact the drivetrain is a single compact unit (engine/transaxle) in FWD cars, so assembly is a lot simpler than in RWD cars, where the driveline spans essentially the whole car and is comprised of several separate parts and components. Remember - mfr.'s don't care as much about ease of repairs as they do ease of assembly.

 

Jeff answered it very well. More accidents arise from breaking loose at the rear (sliding or spinning out, or "oversteer") than from front-end plowing, or "understeer". And when acidents do happen from understeer, they're more likely to be single-car accidents than multi-car ones.

 

screw FWD. Hmm, when you step on the gas, the weight shifts from the front axle and onto the rear axle.

Accelerating in the snow is better with FWD, but steering in the snow is better with RWD. Try braking and turning at the same time with FWD in the snow. What happens? You plow straight ahead.

I do think that FWD is better for people who don't know how to drive. The reason that OEM's use FWD so much is because of cost issues and the 1% better fuel economy it gives to help them meet CAFE regs.

FWD should give more room in the cabin because of the lack of a driveshaft, but usually doesn't. Just look at the maxima with our stupid center console that cuts off your circulation in your legs if you're tall. WTF is up with the lump in the center of the maxima? It's like they designed the chassis to be RWD and changed their minds at the last second.

 

Amen to that brother!

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Hmmm ... I kinda think it does that with any car, FWD or RWD ... I think it's a law of physics, actually.

Ummm ... I think you'll find that both steering AND braking are the same with both FWD and RWD. Both use the front wheels to steer, and all wheels to brake. Which ones are doing the 'driving' should be irrelevant, since you're not talking about accelerating. Oh, and when you brake and turn at the same time, FWD and RWD cars do the exact same thing ... they both plow. What does the drive wheels being in front or rear have to do with that?

Oh, okay, that's it. I don't know how to drive. Oh.

Close! Actually, though, the average fuel economy increase is more like 10%.

Well, don't be tall!

Oh, you have a 5th Gen. Okay, I understand.

It's not too late to dump that POS you have and get a real car, you know.

 

I bet you didn't count on getting a bunch of crap for praising FWD in a Maxima forum.

The only advantage I can think of for a RWD in steering is the power slide. Can that be done reliably with a front wheel drive car? On one hand it should be harder to break the rear tires loose since they aren't the drive tires, but if you could break them loose, you should have better control since the drive tires aren't the ones sliding.

I don't think I'll ever try a power slide, I don't want to have to explain what I was doing to an insurance company if something goes wrong.

 

Now think about which wheels the weight is on now? Yep the rear! Where is the traction going to be then?

Have you ever wondered why FWD drag cars use "wheelie bars" To keep pressure on the front wheels because the weight transfer is working against them not for them like on rwd cars.

 

I made the statment comparing drive wheels on equal stand, not two different vehicles. I know the guidlines.

 

what if its wet?

my friend told me if im understeering just let go of the gas then hit it again slowly.
or to turn the wheel the same way your understeering and turn it back. does it make sense?

 

Yep, that's right. The laws of physics work against FWD. RWD has more traction because the weight shifts to the rear axle when accelerating. The more power a car has, the more of an advantage RWD has.

Well, I didn't say that you don't know how to drive. But FWD is a lot easier for people who don't know how to drive. It doesn't take much of a brain or much skill to drive a FWD.


Maybe back in 1980, today the difference is pretty small.

The 6th gen has a stupid center console in the middle as well that takes away from legroom/hiproom.


I have a POS??? How many times have you been to the dealer with your 6th gen to fix one of the countless TSB's you guys have? Nissan is below average for 2005 (http://www.jdpower.com/pdf/2005069.pdf). In 2004 it was one of the worst for quality behind KIA, Suzuki, Ford, Mitsu, and just about everyone else. http://www.jdpower.com/pdf/2004037.pdf

I'd love to have a RWD car like a maxima, but the only ones that exist are priced much more than I'm willing to pay. I'm not willing to pay for a G35 or a beemer.

 

okay that sounds great...thanks for the reply jeff...one more question though

What is safer and is more accepted in the real world? oversteer or understeer? I know u just listed the basics between the two....but my friend swears his about his rwd and how if you oversteer, u simply counter steer to correct and the car is back on the road....i doubt it's as easy as this right? becuz if it was, then wouldn't everybody in this thread say rwd owns all? I just need some facts about rwd since i never driven one....cuz I think he is full of it sometimes...i had to teach him the concept of ABS :

 

Burnouts are cool in rwd and the fish tail rules if you can control it. If you're oversteering in rwd, you keep your foot planted on the gas and cut the wheel the other way. Just like drifting. FWD, Sitting at a light going left or right and flooring it gives you understeer into that turn and you have to get off the gas and get back on that into the turn, which isn't as fun.

NOw with doing auto cross in a front wheel drive car isn't the greastest feelin. If you had an underpowered fwd car, it be different, but taking a hairpin turn and excelerating out of it, well have your wheels spinning and losing speed and time. Same situation for rwd and your pushing out of a turn. I personally would rather push, then pull out of a turn. And thats also proven by physics and moment of ineria

 

I am 6 5' and have no problem with the amount of space in my car, as a matter of fact both me and the person sitting behind me have more space in the max than in my 94 Q45.

 

Blackbird, I didn't make the original post to start a debate with you. I was just stating the reasons why I think FWD gets a bad rap from some people.

The reason I referred to your car as a POS is because you seem to regard it as one. And if you really hate your car that much, I'd like to see you get something else. I mean life is short, you know ...

(Oh, and BTW, my Maxima hasn't been back to the dealer at all except for the first oil change, which was free. I've had 33,000 miles of absolutely trouble-free operation from my 6th Gen, and I'll probably be getting another one next year when it's time to replace it!)

 

Generally speaking understeer is safer for most drivers. People have a tendency to lift and or brake when going too fast which plants the front end which decreases understeer. If in an oversteer situation someone lifted the problem would get worse. This is why vehicles have understeer built into them from the factory. Because of this I have to have a larger RSB on all my FWD vehicles to get them to rotate.

 

Life is all about compromises. The only cars I can think of that don't have the stupid center console are the crown vic, Tortise (Taurus), Impala, trucks, and Stupid Urban Vehicles. There are things I don't like about the maxima, but the postives outweigh the negatives. Like I said before, I'd love to have a G35, BMW, 300C, or Corvette, but I'd rather not mortgage my future by swimming in debt.

I think FWD is good for people that regard a vehicle as an appliance to get from point A to point B. RWD is better for enthusists and that's why FWD gets such a bad rap on the ORG. People are complaining because the car manufacturers have ignored the demand for a decently-priced, mid-size, V6 or V8, RWD sedan. Chrysler finally got a clue and put out the Magnum and the 300C, it'd be nice if Nissan could do the same.

 

That's funny, but make sense too...

 

...and complete with their Infiniti line for sales?

 

I think the majority of the buying public don't drive their cars hard enough to even tell it's fwd/rwd. Alot of the public wants rwd because of the marketing and hoopla of rwd. I mean this is the same public that buys ridiculas sized SUVs for no good reason. Then to make the ridiculas statement complete, they lower it and put idiot 22" wheels on. So the off road and cargo crap is completely useless.

 

...and 24's, 26's, etc.

 

You'll never see my rediculous-sized SUV w/ blings.

Joe public will crash them just the same, FWD or RWD. I have put both my cars on the track from a roll, FWD(5th gen) and RWD. RWD will always have the advantage in the tight turns, if you can control it.

 

Sorry I got into this thread so late. I’ve enjoyed this heated discussion. I think we’ve adequately discussed how FWD and RWD cars behave after they approach or exceed their limits, namely over steer and under steer. However I don’t believe we’ve discussed when those limits occur.

RWD cars have substantially higher limits than FWD cars. If you compare a FWD and RWD car with the same weight and same tires, straight line acceleration, braking, and turning will always be better in a rear drive car. That’s why almost all race cars are rear drive. The even weight distribution allows the RWD car to use more of each tire’s traction. That translates to more speed. Holding a car at the limit of tire adhesion is the essence of racing, and that requires skill. If a driver exceeds the limit, he better know how to respond.

I think it easier to control a FWD car at its limit. One reason is that it has lower limits. The other reason is that under steer develops slowly and lets the driver know when to start backing off. With regard to RWD limits, you are generally traveling faster and all four tires break loose at roughly the same time. Depending on the exact car or the car’s set up, it happens quickly, which requires greater skills to control.

I like my Maxima. In snow, where limits are greatly reduced, I like the fact that the under steer comes on slowly. I like the feed back. I like the safety. I don’t race anymore. The funny thing is that the limit on most FWD cars today greatly exceeds almost any safe speed. If a driver knows how to brake before the turn, cut the apex correctly, apply throttle before the apex, dial the steering in and out of the corner smoothly, and be sensitive to weight transfer, he can drive a Maxima at crazy speeds. I mean dangerously fast. If anyone drives our car beyond its “FWD” limits, they should probably be on a race track.

 

I will admit that fwd is very convenient and more user friendly, but when it comes down to sheer performance, rwd is def the better of the two. I love my maxima and don't mind it being fwd one bit, but I also do love rwd. Its alot more fun as well being you can power slide down streets for blocks at a time (if ya good). But the differences arent that big either, it really all depends on the driver too, if a person isnt that good at throwing his rwd car around it will eventually throw him around and fwd will win.

 

I prefer front wheel drive for its performance in snow and ice. Rear wheel drive just doesn't afford one the same level of control. This is a significant consideration since I have to drive a lot in the winter.

For me, the under- vs over-steer question is not an issue. I guess I don't drive in a manner that it matters.

 

All great points, particularly the slow growth of understeer in FWD vs the quick onset of oversteer in RWD.

Those of us who need to drive in snow appreciate the better traction you get with FWD. And with a 6-speed in snow, you don't have to start in first gear. Second (or ever 3rd) gear reduces the torque at the drive wheels and thus the tendency for wheel spin on start-up. Those with auto trannies simply can't get this added advantage of a manual trannie in snow.

Finally, you may not think you are approaching the limits of tire adhesion so that oversteer or understeer don't matter to you. But those limits of tire adhesion change depending on conditions -- whether the road is dry Vs having either water or snow on the road. Unless you are a well trained race car driver, you will likely find that FWD is more predictable in these limited traction situations than RWD.

 

This is a great topic, should be moved into the General forums. I am not gonna comment since I started driving a couple months ago. So I am not as experienced as you guys. But from reading this topic I learned some stuff. I gotta turn 18 already and donate man.

 

I can exit freeway offramps at a pretty fun rate of speed The kicker with FWD cars is the amount of trail braking needed is much more than RWD cars to get a neutral turn-in and rotation.

 

Maximam, that is an interesting comment. I’m too chicken to trail brake. Call me old school, but I try not to brake in the corners. There’s no question that trail braking increases the corner’s entry speed, but it often overloads the front tires, especially in a FWD car. (Forget about a decreasing radius turn.) Too much of the car’s weight is on the front outside tire and often produces understeer. In my case, the understeer requires me to back off, which means I carry less speed out of the corner. For me, exit speed is more important than entrance speed.

When I horse around in the Maxima, I feel most comfortable transitioning from brake to throttle just as I start my turn in. The sooner I get some extra weight on the rear wheels, the more stable I feel in the corner. It also makes it easier for me to toe-and-heel. If I sound like I talk a good game, believe me, I get scared easily. I don’t like finding out halfway into a corner that I misjudged it and carried too much speed. On the street, I much rather enter the corner a little slower, pick a later apex, and power through it. I still have fun but remain far from any curbs.

 

Tisk, Tisk Mike. So you prefer your FWD Maxima over your M45?


This subject is pretty moot since the advent of Stability Control programs.

 

my truck has a center console, as a matter of fact alot of trucks now a days have them. almost all SUV's have them too.


dont get me wrong i loved my maxima, it was a blast to drive and great in the snow but i love the oversteer of my truck. i can swing it sideways anytime i feel espically in the wet, but even when i dont want to i always have a strong feeling of control when going through turns. plus i no longer have to go in reverse or pull the e-brake to do donuts