Mike_TX

I've seen Nissan sales figures for December and January that show overall sales, but I understand Altima is making a disproportionate contribution to the totals. Does anyonw have sales broken down by model?

What I'm wondering is how the CVT is affecting Maxima sales in particular, and overall Nissan sales in general.

Several of us predicted initial sales won't be affected too significantly, since most people don't know a CVT from a CAT. But given that Nissan has bet the farm on CVT's, and CVT's in general aren't selling very well (Ford and others are now backing off from them), I'm watching with interest to see how the Nissan models do long-term.

If you have a link to sales figures by model, please post it.
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Jazzlara

whats wrong with CVT? ive heard it has many advantages over standard trannys no?

Jazzlara

also, sorry if im hijacking, but i cant start a new thread until i have 15 posts...not sure about all that

will the 07 front bumper fit an 06? i hate the 06 stock bumper and want a new one, but not rice looking, which is what i seem to see more often than not. i like the 07 for some reason.

thanks, and sorry for jacking thread.

EnervinE

iTrader: (11)

It is more reliable (so far) and has less parts to break. This is a big plus with the nonenthusiast crowd. However, the general consensus is that the CVT makes the car less fun to drive. The original idea for the Max was a sporty, fun to drive sedan. This is bound to affect sales with the enthusiasts, hence the OP's question.

Jazzlara

I see. Any by less fun to drive you mean we dont get that nice hard shift feeling? CVT adds more of a 'no shift' feel? am i correct by assuming that?

moparkidd

yes, the CVT is supposed to add that effect, or course its virtually impossible to do that, i think anyways, but yeah i have drove them, very great cars, the CVT is great i think, and i have heard nothing bad about them yet..

STARR

iTrader: (1)

Nissan should have left the SL with the CVT and the SE with the 5AT/6MT, but instead I guess they figured why let the consumer decide, just force it upon us

I've driven the CVT and it's different then the auto, I wanna drive the car not feel like a passenger

xoomer.com

iTrader: (19)

Good idea....but more parts for nissan to stock. CVT is more efficient than our trannies and can be electronically tuned.

xoomer.com

iTrader: (19)

I think NIssan is trying to do away with that. Its the altima that is the new sporty sedan and maxima might become the luxury sedan with the new iteration in 2009.

Mike_TX

It's not been shown that the CVT is more efficient (nor more reliable, for that matter), and the 5spd auto was also electronically controlled.

If you're referring to gas mileage, the '07 Maxima with CVT is currently EPA rated 1mpg higher than the '06 Max with 5spd auto trans. But if I read Car and Driver correctly, that will change next year with the new EPA testing procedures ... apparently the CVT just rated better in EPA tests because of the way the tests were set up.

Kinda like the hybrids, which will get a BIG reduction in EPA mileage under the new testing protocol.

For Jazzlara, the issue with CVT's for many is that the engine speed and the road speed are not necessarily related, so when you accelerate hard, the engine goes to full speed and stays there while the car eventually catches up. Very much like the way a motor boat revs way up, then begins to move forward. Most of us are used to a direct relationship between engine speed and thrust, and CVT's seem unnatural.

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SilverMax_04

It doesn't have fewer parts than the 6-speed manual -- and it's still too soon to talk about the reliability of this relatively new trannie.

I personally will not buy a Max unless it has a manual trannie.

There was talk in this thread about the CVT's efficiency. One measure of mechanical efficiency is the amount of waste heat that is generated by a trannie. The CVT has two (count them = 2) trannie coolers to keep it from overheating -- and a special high-temperature lubricant because of the heat that is generated. The older auto-trannies have a single trannie cooler. And the 6-speed manual does not need a trannie cooler because of the very little heat that is generated inside of this trannie. That, in my mind, is a measure of efficiency.

Nissan --give me back the option of a 6-speed manual in future Maximas !

Nietzsche

iTrader: (7)

How many times is this thread going to be started?

SilverMax_04

^^^
I'm going to keep harping on the lack of a manual trannie in the Max until Nissan gets the word that a 4-door sports car needs an option of a manual trannie. Sorry if it bores you.

Rydicule

The whole CVT idea is theoretical. In theory, the CVT should deliver more power at the cost of less gas than more traditional transmissions. However, in practice, this hasn't really been shown to be the case. They aren't really refined yet. They have been around on a while, but not so much on 220+ hp engines. A lot of things had to be used to compensate for that. However, they are indeed as efficient or close to as efficient as an automatic transmission, and have the advantage of infinite gear ratios to make it a smoother and more luxurious ride. This is why Nissan is using them. This has been discussed and discussed and discussed.

From a business perspective, Nissan has created a certain kind of car with the Maxima and it appeals to a certain class of people. It is geared toward sportiness AND luxury. As we ALL have noticed and agreed, ever since 1995, it has entered a trend where each generation has become heavier, more luxurious, and from 2000+, less sporty. I know people will disagree with this, but I ask you to just think about it. I'm not saying it isn't sporty at all, I'm saying the 5th gen is less sporty than the 4th, and the 6th less than the 5th. Of course bigger engines did come, so I'm not saying they aren't faster, just not as sporty.

Nissan has been in this trend to attract a new class of consumers, the older generation. They are taking away elements of sport and they are adding elements of luxury to be attractive to the same class of consumers that are attracted to the Toyota Avalon, Crown Victoria, and other large luxury cars. This way, they can up the price and acquire a totally foreign consumer base. Nissan doesn't currently have a car in the large class. Might as well make it the Maxima. But does this mean they abandon their enthusiasts?

They are trying not to. The altima, which used to be a compact car, has gotten larger and sportier with every generation as well. The 2007 Altima has more power than any currently offered Maxima, and it is available with a manual transmission for those who love the sport. It is also going to be available in a coupe for 2008. With this transition, Nissan now gains a new class of consumers, and basically everything we love about the maxima will be available on the Altima. Those consumers that prefer better mpg and compact cars like the older Altimas, they will have the Sentra to look to. Everything is taking one step forward to make more room for a wider consumer range, which will ultimately = +$ for Nissan.

My 2 cents.

Omarvelous

Well....

7months and 15600 miles later, and i'm not missing that reg auto trannies i've grown so accustomed to.

At 22 years of age, I'm very happy with the CVT. This being my 3rd car, actually like having the option of shift shock (which still can be had on the 07 Max using manual mode..... wow!) And when racing, the cvt really helps as the lack of shifting allows for a true continuous flow, which gives a leg up over other cars, and when i tell u it gets up..... it GETS up!

I can understand how those that are accustomed to the manual trannys feel about this, one thing i rec, is DRIVE it! And try out the manual mode, it's good not having to shift gear especially if ur in the busy cities.

To the auto lovers...... you should not have any qualms what-so-ever.

That's just my 2cents.

jcalabria

True, True, True...

I understand manual tranny fans being pissed that Nissan dropped the MT6. I don't expect that they'd be any more interested in the CVT than they would be in any other automatic. Draw up the petition to bring back the 6MT and I'll sign it, too. But the CVT has NOTHING WHAT-SO-Freaking-EVER to do with that. It replaced the 5AT and is doing quite nicely in that role.

Going back to Mike_TX's original question, the full sales figures by model are available at nissannews.com. A link for the February numbers is listed on the home page. You can get previous months'/years' numbers from there as well.

2nd half 2006 numbers for the '07 Max were up from same months in '05, but calendar year '07 sales are down from same months in '06. However, the same two months in '06 were also down from same months in '05, so it would be difficult to pin that trend on the CVT. AND... the 350Z sales have dropped way more than the Max -- you can't blame that on the CVT. Altima sales are up somewhat with the new model (and it does have a CVT). The Altima is, by far, the sales leader for Nissan (~4x Max sales) regardless of year and tranny available. Interesting that the '07 Max and '07 Altima did enjoy initial sales surges, but the all new '07 Sentra is lagging '06 sales.

mdfergus

I agree witn Omarvelous, if you want to shift, go to the manual mode. Very responsive. I have had my 07 a little over a month and traded an 04 for it. In my opinion, the 07 is a superior car in every way. Had considered an M35, and may get one in a couple of years, but for now I can't complain.

xoomer.com

iTrader: (19)

On point like hard nipples

jc53

Happy with mine too! This is my sixth Max, and I've liked them all for a multitude of reasons. I can say, as I get older, that the "luxury" features get more important; the lack of a manual tranny less important. I stay with the Max because it is dependable, "luxurious", somewhat sporty, and AFFORDABLE!

SilverMax_04

Good post Rydicule. Happy to have you posting in the 6th Gen.

I don't doubt that the CVT is as good (if not better than) the 5-AT. But Nissan did not have to drop the 6-MT from the Maxima lineup in 07. In 06 you could get either the 5-AT or the 6-MT. Why not offer a similar option in 08 -- either the CVT (in place of the 5-AT) and the 6-MT?

I am one of the more senior consumers that Nissan is seeking with their changes to the Maxima. I like the "near luxury", the 4 doors and the larger interior of the 6th-Gen. But I also like to be able to have maximum control (with minimum heat build-up) of the engine and drive train, including engine breaking. I burned up a GM auto trannie using it for engine breaking. That won't happen with the 6-MT.

If Nissan does not change and have the option of a 6-MT in future Maximas, I may be foreced to consider the Altima -- when I need to replace my 04. But I perfer the higher luxury of the Maxima, and would rather have it instead of the Altima. I hope Nissan gives me this choice in the future.

Rydicule

This is a marketing conflict. Unfortunately for the class of consumer you're focusing on, you are in the minority. The majority of luxury lovers don't want to deal with a manual tranny.

If Nissan were to offer both transmissions, one would have to be standard and the other an option. It make's little sense to make the CVT standard and then make consumers pay more for the 6MT, so this would mean that the car would have to be standard, at least in some trim, with a 6MT. What this does is it introduces the CVT as an option on the car, which a customer would have to pay more for. It's a mind game. The cars Nissan are trying to compete with, the Avalon, Crown Vic, Chrysler 300, etc. are all only available with automatic transmission. Nissan wants to use the CVT to attract these customers (most likely loyal to their own car makers) to the Maxima, which becomes difficult to do when you also charge them for it.

When the CVT is an option that comes as a price on ANY trim, the customer will look at it as a premium to be paid on all trims. Even if it is standard on the SL, customers will just look at it as a "premium built into the standard price".

Nissan wants the choice to look simpler to the customer. 4AT, 4AT, 5AT, or CVT? All standard on the car. 4 speeds? 5 speeds? INFINITE speeds? Makes the choice look easy, but ONLY if it's standard. Nissan doesn't want the transmission to come across as a "cost" to the customer. That's why they can offer the CVT and only the CVT as the transmission. You have to remember, they aren't just competing, they are trying to "break into" a new class of consumer. They need something new and fresh to offer that the competition doesn't have. And they want it to look like they are getting that new and fresh upgrade for "free" in comparison to other cars.

That's why they can't offer the 6MT on the Maxima. To us it looks like they are abandoning our interests with a half-arsed compromise of the Altima. To them, it's business. They will in the end make more money by it because we WILL go and buy the Altima, which is offered with most the features today's Maxima's are.

SilverMax_04

Another good post.

I always seem to be in the minority -- even in 04 it was difficult to find a Max with a 6-speed. My dealer did not help much, but I got on the net and found my car at another CO dealer. The dealer kept the deal we had with a 5-AT (that I did not want) and got my car from the other dealer, dropping the cost because of the trannie change.

You certainly are correct that it is a lot easier if there is no choice of trannies. But I thought (but don't know for certain) that the Chrysler 300 (and at least one "smaller" Caddy) was available with a manual trannie.

I will keep my 04 for as long as I can trust it to do what I need from a car. Then will have to decide what to get next. I will put that decision off for as long as possible.

jcalabria

As vocal as the manual enthusiasts might be, especially on this forum (where the percentage of manual owners is most likely quite disproportionate to the "real world" percentage), there are just not enough of them for Nissan to continue to certify an additional powertrain combination. If Nissan's marketing plan is to move the Max even further upscale, then the percentage of manual customers would drop even further, making it even more difficult justify.

This is the real issue. If Nissan could financially justify certifying and marketing the 6MT, they would. I don't think they would have a problem in presenting it to the consumer (no more than they have in the past or Acura has a problem listing a manual and automatic TL-S).

The only ray of hope (and its a very small one) is that once the next gen Maxima is introduced, it may once again be considered (from a certification standpoint) to share the same basic platform and powertrain as the Altima. Quite often manufacturers can certify similar platform and powertrain combinations even if they are sold as different vehicles. I surmise that the Altima and Max may have shared certifications the past few years, allowing the certification costs of the 6MT to be shared across both model lines. This was not possible for model year '07 as the Altima has the new generation platform and motor. Whether this is possible in the future or if Nissan even cares, given where the Max is heading, remains to be seen. I suspect that the 7th Gen Max will be too heavy to share a platform certification with the Altima.

Rydicule

I wish it was. Unfortunately, it seems to be the way of the large luxuries these days, to cut the good ole stick trannies out.

From:
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...rysler-300.htm





Amen my man. I feel exactly the same way about my 02.

lightonthehill

A whole string of thoughtful posts here. I believe we have quite a few posters who have Nissan's plans nailed.

It has been rather clear that the percentage of Maxima buyers opting for the manual has been declining for over a decade (as the car grew larger and more luxurious). Very sad, but very true.

Being frequently caught in bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go traffic, I finally had to leave the manual tranny behind (over 700 shifts in less than 100 minutes one way going to work will do that for some of us). But my daughter will go to her grave before buying an auto tranny. She says shifting is the most fun thing about a car.

I have discussed this situation with the folks at my Nissan dealer many times over the past ten years, and they said the percentage of Maxima buyers opting for the manual dropped below 5% back around 2000. They often had to 'sweeten the deal' in order to move some of the manual Maximas.

Several here mentioned what should now be obvious to all: The top of the line manual version of the 3.5 Altima is now Nissan's 4DSC. That this would happen became rather clear somewhere between 2000 and 2003. The release of the 6th gen Maxima specs in January 2003 put the final nail in the coffin of the Maxima as Nissan's 4DSC of the future.

The problem I have with Nissan's move is the Altima does not have the panache of the Maxima. It is Nissan's sales leader, is seen by the hundreds everywhere one looks, and can be had for prices that range from the teens to around $30K.

That is a very very poor model/location in which to position a car that replaces the illustrious Maxima and its wonderful image. The 4DSC version of the Altima is doubtlessly an excellent performer. But the classic Maxima was far more than just an 'excellent performer'; it was a legend. A classic.

By definition (at least in my mind), a 4DSC should have at least a smidgen of exclusivity. By contrast, the Altima is the quintessential example of INclusivity.

Those who would love to be able to continue with the manual Maxima as their 4DSC may now opt for the manual Altima. But it isn't the same. What they will be doing is 'settling'. That takes much of the 'prestige', fun, joy and pride right out of the equation. I find that very sad.

I do understand Nissan's position, in that, once the Maxima is a $40,000 sporty, but heavy and plush near-luxury car, the percentage of buyers opting for the manual would probably drop below 2%.

Would it have been better to keep the Altima as the car for the masses, the Maxima as a true 4DSC, and introduced a new model for Nissan's plush luxury car? I think so. But Nissan obviously did not.

jcalabria

and I thought I was bad with 14k in 8 months

WAIT... I AM doing bad... I have a 15k/yr lease

jcalabria

What he said...

Call me a snob, but as much as I like the Altima I probably would not consider it for the same reason I wouldn't consider a Camry or Accord... even though you can equip any one of them reasonably well, there is little or nothing to distinguish your $30k Camry/Accord/Altima from the neighbors $20k 4 cyl. stripper.

For so long the Max has been a truly unique animal with a very unique combination of style, sport, practicality and value. Part of that was the fact that there was not a true strippo model available - even the old GXEs had V6s. No Altima will never feel the same.

As to where the Max goes from here... we really won't know for sure until the 7th gen is released. If the bogey is the TL and they intend to leapfrog it, I might still be interested. If the bogey is the Avalon... I don't feel THAT old just yet.

Mike_TX

Well, for those saying the change to CVT was to make the Maxima "more luxury-oriented" and to "appeal more to the older buyer" I'd like to ask this - What "luxury car" or "older person's car" out there has a CVT? Hmmmm? Would it be Mercedes? Or maybe Buick? How about BMW? or Audi?

I believe the answer is "none". Not even Nissan's own premium brand, Infiniti.

Nissan made the move to CVT's for one reason: Cost savings. Ghosn does everything for cost reasons, and he's done a helluva job bringing Nissan back from the brink. But don't fool yourself - he didn't mandate the CVT in order to make the cars more luxurious or more appealing, or even because CVT's are better than conventional automatics. He's betting on people convincing themselves it's cutting edge and technologically cool. And in a way, I hope he succeeds, because others have tried this and failed.

OTOH, I'd like to see it fail, so Nissan would again offer its excellent 5spd AT.
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jcalabria

Haven't seen anybody say that the CVT was part of the luxury push... certainly not me. What people have stated is that the luxury push has cost the 6MT. Again, there is no connection between the loss of the 6MT and the intro of the CVT, other than it happening in the same model year. The Ghosn cost cutting is evident in not wanting to certify the very low volume 6MT Max. The 6MT and the CVT coexist in the Altima because they sell enough of them to justify the certification process.

I doubt that the CVT costs less than a conventional 5AT, but it probably does cost less than developing a 7 or 8-speed conventional auto. Mercedes and Lexus can better absorb that cost in the price range they play in. That Nissan has introduced an ultra-close ratio gearbox with thousands of available ratios, coupled with an engine approaching 300hp, in its bread and butter car lines is a pretty neat accomplishment.

Although I never had a 6G Max with a 5AT, I have no doubt that it was a good tranny. But so is the CVT. Its easily as fast as my '03 VQ35 at any speed I care to explore and gives me 10% better gas mileage (same routes, same driver, same conditions). Its wonderfully flexible and adaptable to whatever mood I'm in. What's wrong with that?

As hard as I have searched, I have not found any widespread reliability issues with the CVT in the heavier Murano. If Nissan knew of any they would not have introduced it in the Max or certainly not in its bread & butter Altima. With the possible exception of the hardcore modder or 1/4 mile junkie, nobody who would have opted for an auto anyway should find any fault with the CVT. I don't believe I have seen an owner of an '07 complain much, or any at all, for that matter.

SilverMax_04

Actually, I seem to be the only one complaining (in writing) about the loss of the 6-MT. Guess I had better just shut-up and live with this change.

Perhaps when it comes time to replace my 04, the comparable sized Infiniti will: 1) be as large as the 6-gen Max and 2) still have a manual trannie -- hopefully with a higher top gear than my 6-MT has today. Would have to pay more for this, but it would be worth it.

Mike_TX

Nah, tweren't you - look at post #14 and some following that agreed.

I haven't heard of any significant reliability issues with the Muranos, either (although they've kept them at 240hp to reduce stress, if I'm not mistaken). For me it's just an awkward feeling of being disconnected from what the car is up to. I've driven regular AT's for so long I can't adjust to the odd feeling of a CVT. many people can, and I guess if you're going to own a Maxima now, you pretty much HAVE to!

As a two-time former Maxima owner, I'm just still disappointed that Carlos and his boys made the decision to mess with a good thing. Time will tell if it was a good decision, but Ford Motor Co. will tell you that when given a choice, people will vote NO to CVT's.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=503
(Ford kills CVT)

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/ne...nsmission/166/
(GM kills CVT)

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briancopeland

Don't get me wrong, I love my 6th Gen '05 Maxima, but let's face it: it was an afterthought based on the Altima platform after the Altima had decimated Maxima sales. The '05 grill looks like a Murano's, the '07 new grill looks like an older Altima's. The only Maxima commercials I've seen feature a woman not letting their male date drive their car on the first date and a woman putting on lipstick while the car's CVT doesn't shift gears abruptly - not the 4-Door Sports car pitched in the late 80's/early 90's. The new Sentra SE-R Vspec has a bad'er attitude than the current Maxima.

Nissan had seriously better rethink their vision for the Maxima. The CVT only makes it more "Murano-like" in my opinion. Fortunately, I have enough money and time to bring my 6th Gen Maxima to life and not have it be girly in the least. I intend to make it an M3 killer. I only hope that the future stock ones don't start coming in pink!

jcalabria

You're not the only one, and I agree. All 8 of the cars I owned from when I graduated college in '78 till '95 were manuals, including my first Max. I might not get my wife to switch back, but if I get my hip replaced I'll be back in a manual equipped car as soon as I can. Even with the other automatic Max's I've had, the availibility of the MT was part of its image and heritage. I regret and lament its loss as much as you do. We SHOULD all bítch and moan at Nissan as loudly as possible. What bugs me is that there has never been any discussion about the CVT that didn't turn into a MT bítch session. No MT is not the CVT's fault.

Rydicule

WARNING!***
This post is full of





Hey Mike!
I suppose you're a little confused by what I was trying to get across. You actually stated exactly my point.

Exactly. He's pitching the CAR as more luxurious with a cool a new "cutting edge" transmission. I never said the transmission was more luxurious. Although I will say it now.

In theory, a CVT is a far more advanced peice of equipment than your 5AT. Think about it. A continuously variable transmission with infinite gear ratios to eliminate shifting all together, always keep you at maximum efficiency, AND have a simpler design than the traditional automatic transmission. It's two adjustable, connected pulleys . This would mean even if it DID break, it would be easier to repair, therefore less expensive. It pretty much has everything on the 5AT. In theory.

I will try to keep my disdain (which was gained from personal experience with a few of these) for German vehicles out of my reply to this, even though you managed to name all the heavy hitters and casually throw Buick in with them.

You are correct, though I know little about the motivations of German car companies, Infiniti has also chosen not to introduce their cars with the CVT. I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention Acura or Lexus though, as I would find these Japanese companies to be more comprable to this discussion. Well, the Lexus (a long time company respected as a "luxury" vehicle) DOES offer a CVT on the 2007 Lexus GS. Aside from that, we'll examine qualities of other modern luxury cars. For those luxury cars that choose the path of your beloved automatic transmission, you'll find that most or all of them use anything from a 5AT to even an 8AT (2007 Lexus LS). More gears. More gears=shorter shifts=smoother ride. So what could be smoother than infinite gears, right? But infiniti is an idea, not a real number, so it's not possible to put that many gears into a gear box. Well, true. So you use a CVT which can harness the "idea" of infiniti into a simple design and deliver results better than any automatic transmission without costs to expense, gas mileage, or powertrain efficiency. Get where I'm going with this?

So why doesn't Infiniti use this technology?? Simple. The technology is very crude. It's been around for decades, but it was never really refined because there was no money to be made by refining it until now. When the idea was first introduced, it was impossible to use it in any kind of practical sense with an engine that had anything more than 70 horses. People wanted more. Now it has been refined enough to mount to engines with almost 300 horses. But only recently. It still has a lot of refinement to go through, and Nissan doesn't want to make it's "upscale company" the guinea pig for this refining process. In theory these transmissions are supposed to be MORE practical than ATs. In practice, they struggle to make them AS practical as them. The ideas need to be engineered to unleash the potential of the CVT over a number of years in a practical consumer environment.

It's true, in it's current form the CVT is expensive, as this article states, which contradicts your theory about Goshn using it for cost savings btw, as well as it holds no real advantage over in power or mpg over the traditional AT. The POINT, however, is that the CVT is still better in theory, which leaves room for improvement. It can be developed. The AT has no where left to go except more and more gears. Until it becomes an CVT.




I'm a supporter of the manual transmission. I love mine. My posts are only for informational purposes with information as I see it, I do not actually support putting the CVT in cars, as I have never driven one and I am not sure how I myself would take to a shiftless car. I only speak about my beliefs as to why the CVT is coming into light in Nissan's future.

I'm done. No more for me.

4MySwee

iTrader: (2)

Mike!!! Good to see you man! Hows the TL holding up? Glad you came back for a visit. I hope all is well with you and yours!

I lament the loss of the 6-Speed. I swore my next Maxima would have one. I 'feel' that this may be my last Maxima unless they reintroduce the manual again.

I am not an avid fan of the CVT. Anything remotely new 'to me' I tend to stray from.

Come on Nissan, don't eliminate us all.....Potential profit for you here.

Mike_TX

Rydicule - that's a very interesting and comprehensive response, and I appreciate it. However, you missed part of MY point, as well.

I threw Buick into the unlikely mix because "older people" or "older audience" was mentioned (and what epitomizes old people more than Buick?)

The notion of "infinite" gear ratios is the whole basis of the sales job we're getting on the CVT. And you're right - it's a neat thought ... in theory, anyway. In practice, however, it's a different matter. Nobody's been able to show that a CVT is more efficient or more economical, or just plain better in other ways. But please don't misunderstand me, I don't hold it against anyone who likes CVT's. It's just that I don't.

You're correct that Mercedes and Lexus are in a race to see how many gears they can stuff in an AT, but it's really been taken too far. People are already complaining those 7spd and 8spd AT's spend too much time hunting for the right gear. 6 speeds seem to be about the right balance for power, economy, complexity, cost, weight, etc., etc., and that's my personal choice.

I disagree with your comments about cost, though. While Ford and others *have* spent a lot trying to make CVT's practical, Ghosn is gambling he can make them cost-effective by offering no alternative. In other words, make it up on volume. If Nissan offered both a 5spd AT and a CVT, they'd have the same problem Ford, GM and others have had: people wouldn't buy enough of them to make them cost effective.

Last but not least, you're right that Lexus and others have put CVT's into their hybrids. Part of the reason is that EPA gas mileage tests favored CVT's in the past, and hybrids sell on promises of great mileage. Part of it is compactness, since the other hybrid equipment takes up extra space. And part of it is that CVT's work well with electric motors, which generate maximum torque at startup. And since the electric motors provide a bunch of the forward motion in a hybrid, the CVT is able to take the remaining stress.

I think this is a good discussion, myself. Forums are about ideas and opinions, and CVT's certainly generate both of those!
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Mike_TX

Howdy, Swee! Yes, we're all doing well, thank you, and I hope the same goes for you.

The TL is okay, but other than the great nav system and Bluetooth, I have to tell you I enjoyed my Max more. Matter of fact, I'm starting to look around ...

I'm like lightoverthehill (oops, lightONthehill ), though, in that I'm too old to fart around with manual trannies these days. I just want Nissan to stop this CVT-only nonsense.

Behave yourself -
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Omarvelous

I feel that might have been where GM and Ford got it wrong. Why offer 2 Automatics? If I was offered 2 automatics, having not test driven the CVT, and maybe even after test driving the CVT, I would have prob gone with the 5spt AT, WHICH i'm sure of would have most likely been CHEAPER anyways....

Taking a gamble like Nissan has, not offering 2 Automatics, only 1 choice, with more refinements, and keeping the MSRP the same I feel was a good way to test the market, and i'm sure will set the foundation for the 7th gen. It might have been at the expense of the manual lover's expense, but for a company as a whole, in this struggling market, it was one that had to be made for i ASSUME more longer sustained longevity.

I do agree with you manual lovers, that maybe they should have considered adding that option for a manual tranny.

I also think that although the CVT has been around a long time, it's got a lot of room for improvement, and I can almost gurantee within a few years, will replace these Xspd Autos. These CVTs can simulate any Xspd Auto on the market today, and those of tomorrow (12spd, lol). It'll be one day where you can dial in your gears, and change them on the fly as well.

Just got this off Wikipedia

New automobiles equipped with CVT

* Audi A4 2.0/1.8T/2.4/3.0/2.5 TDI
* Audi A6 2.0/1.8T/2.4/3.0/2.5 TDI
* Dodge Caliber
* Fiat Punto 1.2 L
* Ford Escape Hybrid 2.3 L 4 cyl
* Ford Five Hundred 3.0 L 6 cyl
* Ford Focus C-MAX 1.6 L TDCi 110 PS
* Ford Freestyle 3.0 L 6 cyl
* Honda Civic HX 1.7 L 4 cyl
* Honda Civic Hybrid 1.3 L 4 cyl
* Honda City 1.5 L
* Honda HR-V 1.6 L
* Honda Insight 1.0 L 3 cyl
* Honda Jazz 1.4L / Honda Fit 1.3 L/1.5 L
* Jeep Compass 2.4 L
* Jeep Patriot 2.4 L
* Lexus GS450h 3.5 L 6 cyl
* Lexus RX400h 3.3 L 6 cyl
* Mercedes-Benz A-Class

* Mercedes-Benz B-Class
* Mercury Montego 3.0 L 6 cyl
* Microcar MC1/MC2 505cc 2 cyl diesel or petrol
* Microcar Virgo 505cc 2 cyl diesel or petrol
* Mitsubishi Colt 1.5 L MIVEC 4 cyl with INVECS-III CVT (Asian-Oceanian version only, 72 kW)
* Mitsubishi Lancer 1.6 L/1.8 L MIVEC 4 cyl with INVECS-III CVT (Asian version only)
* MG F/MG TF 1.8L
* BMW MINI One and Cooper.
* Nissan Altima (from 2007)
* Nissan Cube
* Nissan Maxima (from 2007)
* Nissan Micra 1.0 L/1.3 L
* Nissan Murano 3.5 L
* Nissan Primera 2.0 L
* Nissan Qashqai 2.0 L
* Nissan Sentra (from 2007)
* Nissan Serena 2.0 L
* Nissan Skyline 350GT-8
* Nissan Tiida / Versa
* Opel Vectra 1.8 L
* Rover 25
* Rover 45
* Rover Streetwise
* Saturn ION Quad Coupe (2003-2004)
* Saturn VUE 2.2 L AWD (2002-2005), 2.2 FWD (2002-2004)
* Subaru R1
* Subaru R2
* Subaru Stella
* Toyota Highlander Hybrid 3.3 L 6 cyl
* Toyota Camry Hybrid 2.4L 4 cyl
* Toyota Prius 1.5 L 4 cyl

REVOLUTION is now ppl!!

The CVT, although maybe not EXACTLY, but might even simulate the Manual tranny as well....

those cost savings, will force some of these companies to submit to the CVT. They don't care about you consumers...... in the end.

Omarvelous

Nissan is taking the FIRST REAL big step in educating and introducing this technology to the consumer..... (Meaning....NOT literally, but they are introducing it heavily, as the CVT touches all the car lines, except the 350z, larger SUVs, and Trucks)

so I wouldn't be surprised if they slowly get rid of XSpd Autos in the near future...

Don't let them devlope a CVT strong enough to sustain on these pick-ups/suvs - those would switch overnight.

SilverMax_04

Mike,

I too agree that the discussion here about CVTs is very informative -- with very little name calling -- which is all great.

"light" has a problem with his hip -- which is why he says he can no longer use a manual trannie. What's you excuse?

I'm 67 years old and have no hip problem. I would only buy a vehicle with a manual trannie -- gives me maximum control -- which I like.