Are suspension upgrades too much for our cars?
 

While I was bleeding my mushy brakes this past weekend, I checked out the suspension on each corner to make sure things were in order. Lo and behold, I discovered a broken passenger side rear sway bar carrier bracket. See pic below. I have Progress sway bar and springs, KYB adjustable shocks, and Racingline endlinks.

My question: Can our car handle the stiff suspension upgrades we have been doing? Thoughts? Opinions?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97...a/DSCN2503.jpg

Did you solve your brake problem?

Man Dues I am with you on this, I put the Tein adjustables on and my car is making far more noises then before. I have them on the softest setting and the highest height and still having knocking AND Wierd noises!

Brake problem still there although it seems intermittent. I'll try disconnecting battery and bleeding this weekend

Street car chassis are designed to flex, so I think there is a point that the stiffness in suspension weakens the chassis and/or damage parts. You also track your car, so that adds more stress to your car than most of the rest of us.

of course upgrades can be too much. there has to be flex somewhere. otherwise the more we tighten it up, the more little and even bigger things will start to give.

when talking to the gearheads at my factory job when mods started popping up for us, they talked about getting cars on rails making them turn on a dime, and staying low and flat as possible. eventually windows would break or other parts due to all the stress.

we have to keep in mind the more we try to imitate race cars, the more we will be replacing failing parts just like they do.

Maybe we just need stronger parts, maybe start searching pro racing part sites...

I'm sure with your car doing Auto-X it makes a bigger difference and maybe you need to see how much preloading your endlinks are doing, just a thought...

Pre-load is probably even more critical when going through the stresses of auto X. I noticed that the broken end of the bracket was rusty, so it didnt just break. I'll try to get the car up on ramps this weekend and examine the preload. Basically, I dont want pre-load.

Rust in SoCal?

Like a chain... a suspension is only as strong as its weakest link (part). With the added stresses of dropping, stiffening and roadracing, the parts that are made for everyday driving will break a lot sooner.

Question Deus. If you're such a big racer, why in the world did you choose a 6th gen max? Granted, I love this damn car, but it would have to be nearly at the bottom of the list of any racer's short list.

Same as me, i bought the car for work use and thought I will never race this car. But the bug bit me and there I am. Racing around in a boat :D

Kamski

And beat some "performance" cars in the process too...

Well . .just surface rust, but rust nonetheless.

I used to be more into racing. I even have some of my prior race cars in my garage. This just turned out this way. I didnt think Id be racing the Maxima, but I discovered the great potential of these cars. Third top time of day at a high speed event with 50 cars, in a daily-driven car running against FULL on race cars on slicks isnt too bad, is it?:D

That clamp is just a piece of stamped steel, it could have had a tiny slit in it and with all the excess stress you put on it it tore like a piece of paper, no big deal, every 5000 miles you should normally check the car over

And to my knowledge, there isnt a way to beef up the brackets. I just wanted everyone to keep an eye on their suspension parts, for this kind of problem.

*cough* Taz *cough* could make some aluminum replacement units...

I think some titanium brackets would be light and superior strength that Taz could make.

Good idea. Taz, what do you think?

Energy suspension makes generic swaybar bushings, but they don't say what these clamps are made of. The pictures show them to be a gold color, so I am thinking it is not a very strong material, whatever it is... I heard that aluminum is pound for pound the strongest metal out there, so maybe TAZ could look into that?

Not too shabby at all bro. :ben:

I wonder how long that bracket was broken. I replaced it this morning ($8) and when I theoretically raced that white Evo, the car stayed sooooooooooo planted in the curves.

I race my Dakota, everyone out there thinks I'm nuts or laughs until they see my times. With a great suspension, some frame stiffening and the right gearing it carves corners really well. I'm running Kumho autox slicks but even on the street with high end tires its impressive. Deus may be doing the same thing, odd man out. We rarely have a Maxima at the autox and if we do its usually stock and showing off lots of body roll etc. I flat spotted a tire last weekend so the December race might see the new Maxima. I don't want to roll over the edges on the RSA's but I can't afford new slicks just yet.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...utocross44.jpg

To avoid rolling over the edges,pump up the tires. Use shoe polish on the sides as indicators of where the tires are being worn after each run. Keep pumping them up til the wear is not on the sides. It may be 50 psi or more.

Thanks for the tip. I usually run 42 front 38 rear but the truck is a different animal. Is 50 safe for the RSA's? One of the Max's I test drove had a nice big bubble forming on its left front. I still pushed it thru the turns b/c it wasn't mine :laugh: What tires do you run in race trim? I want some V710's for my next set but they don't even last a full season. That Racingling FSTB thread has my order finger twitching.

I have my Dunlops pumped up to around 45 for racing. You should be nearer to 50 since u have stock suspension. Do the shoe polish and ur golden.

I vote that we put that as a sticky...the thread about it at least...I remember it from a while ago!

Also, put up Chern's 3 Phase mods in the stickies.

Proving that the 6th gen is :ben:

.02

On the way home from work, I was thinking about the C6 ZO6 with a roll-cage that I drove around the lot, and it got me thinking about this thread...

...as :tard: as this sounds...how exactly can a car's "parts" be designed for track only? I mean drrrrrrr, ya it's lower and wider and all that good stuff, but how does the STRENGTH of the parts get "designed?"

Adding coil-overs and such adds better handling, but puts stress on so much other stuff throughout the car. How does this alter from vehicle to vehicle and "why?"

:gotme: and kind of :tard: the more I think about it

Any engineers? liquidvenom*

Check out that ZO6 again, and see what else were reinforced; and what category it's prepped for.

:gotme: if that was a wise-*** remark.

Never! Each class has different chassis reinforcement requirements. Road cars are built as cheaply as possible, with few exceptions.

:) thought so

So what exactly is the Z06 classified as?

Further discuss the "reinforcement requirements?"

Stuff built for track purposes is no different then stuff built for off roading or towing, it's just the breaking point increases, thinker, bigger, heavier is all the really do.

The bracket broke, so if heavier thicker brakets are made will the bolt break instead, this seems like a fluke thing, all the 4th, 5th and now 6th gens with sway bars and 1 broken clamp, I think where good.

ZO6's are road cars with some track parts. The one you drove w/ roll cage, what else does it have?

I think I did a good job fixing it up :angel:

For most of us, yes.

It was a customer car, and from the looks and sounds of it, the thing had full exhaust and a gutted...ish intake box with tape around it...:wtf: Sounded mean as hell, but there were some weird sounds at idle :nervous:

K, I know that this wasn't classified as a roll-cage, but I did not want to explain it before :p Directly behind the seats, right by the headrests, there was a bar mounted with 2 or 3 points to each side...I highly doubt that it was a RSTB, but ya...that's my n00b explanation

Parts in general are designed for applicable stresses. Be that daily driven extremes or track rarities. I have raced with Z06's and seen stock MazdaSpeed's autocrossed to their extreme's. Manufacturer's design most components based on an average of those extreme's and daily stresses. No one wants a part to fail, that always looks bad as far as reputation goes. With regards to your question, parts that are designed for track only are extremely unlikely to be seen on any car that's DOT legal. But an aftermarket part can easily be designed for race only, the problem lies within the proximity of stock parts not designed to take the loading from the much stronger race parts, creating failures and stresses. This is evidenced by the end links marketed on this forum that transferred stresses into the sway bar bushing brackets causing a cracked part. The happy medium lies within the pre-loading of the end links and the compromise of part replacement/ride quality.

I might be an engineer but I also stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

It seems to me that pre-loading is unnecessary, and can make a car unreasonably twitchy, right?