Which tuning software/package offers most bang for the buck
11-14-2009, 02:39 AM
#1
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Which tuning software/package offers most bang for the buck
I'm interested in purchasing some tuning hardware/software for my car, and I'm wondering what will give the biggest bang for the buck? I currently have a Nismo CAI, and I'll probably be adding the BOP, intake spacers, and full exhaust in the future. I definitely want something that will alow me to advance the timing, and code reading would also be a plus. I figured it would be hard to go wrong with the Cipher for $200. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I have an 07 SE w/CVT.
I've e-mailed TechnoSquare (they never e-mailed me back), and I've read the few threads I could find on the Bullydog, Uprev, SafCII, and Utec.
I've e-mailed TechnoSquare (they never e-mailed me back), and I've read the few threads I could find on the Bullydog, Uprev, SafCII, and Utec.
11-15-2009, 07:34 AM
#3
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
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I used an APEXi Super AFC-II which work great and didn't break the bank, my recommendation is the new APEXi NEO which is an upgrade to the above:
http://www.importtuner.com/reviews/p...ent/index.html
http://www.importtuner.com/reviews/p...ent/index.html
11-15-2009, 10:15 AM
#4
Its a hard question to answer since there are many factors to consider. I have Technosquare reflash and was dyno tuned. Cost me $300. If I had unlimited funds, Id probably go for a Utec
11-15-2009, 11:51 AM
#5
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Thanks for the responses guys. I've got a CVT, so I heard dyno tunes were tough to do. I've also e-mailed TechnoSquare, and haven't received a response yet. I know its kind of a broad question. I don't see myself ever adding a supercharger/turbo...I've been down that road already. Probably the farthest I'll go will be BOP/spacers/complete exhaust. I'm just wondering with the limited mods, do I really need access to all of the parameters that are available with the Apexi, or is the Cipher better with the limited mods?
11-15-2009, 12:57 PM
#6
If you arent doing to many mods I would suggest getting all your mods done and send ur ecu to technosquare. Call them. Ask for Tadashi. They can be a bit elusive. Remember SEMA was last week so many companies have been preparing for that.
11-15-2009, 05:02 PM
#7
Technosquare emailed me and said they dont plan on anything for 07-08 maximas and dont have enough peoples interest to start. If you have the $ that might be different but thats what they emailed me twice.
11-15-2009, 07:23 PM
#9
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With the limited mods, if I stick with just the Cipher, do I really need a dyno tune, as the only thing I can really change is the timing and idle rpm? Also, can you dyno tune a CVT? I've read that you can't?
Last edited by 1hawaii50; 11-15-2009 at 07:26 PM.
11-15-2009, 07:51 PM
#10
Does Cipher have the ability to actually change anything? I was under the impression (maybe wrongfully) that it was just a data logging app...
11-15-2009, 08:43 PM
#11
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I thought I had read that there was a problem dyno tuning the car because you cannot hold the trans in 3rd gear to make the pull. I could be wrong, but I thought I had read a couple threads that said that the CVT made dyno tuning difficult. As far as the Cipher, it looks like it is mostly data logging, but it says you can change timing +/-2 degrees, and you can adjust engine idle rpm +/- 250rpms.
11-16-2009, 06:10 PM
#12
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I fired off an e-mail to Uprev regarding the Cipher, and this is their response:
Don,
Cipher is a non-licensed product it can be used on multiple vehicles. Cipher is only a data logging and diagnostic tool. Tuning a CVT transmission currently is more that difficult it is almost impossible to do to the degree you'd be able to do with a normal auto or manual transmission. The issue is that we cannot load a CVT car on a Dyno.
I'm certain we will be able to offer the ability with Osiris Tuner to allow you to do "street tuning" at some point, and allow for AFR adjustments to keep the motor safe, but not really sure at this point about how to do full RPM sweep tuning on a dyno to make the motor as efficient and powerful as possible.
The +/- 2 degree is not a timing adjustment. It is a sensor adjustment. I know people treat it like a timing advance, but the ECU does things in milliseconds, degrees is a mechanical adjustment. All the timing of the ECU is done in milliseconds because timing at 6000rpm is different than timing at 1200rpm. Static adjustments can be harmful when you consider the range of adjustment the ECU uses and the fact that all the timing is totally dynamic.
Rich-
It looks like the dyno is out for us CVT owners. I sent him another e-mail asking for clarification on what he said about the timing.
Don,
Cipher is a non-licensed product it can be used on multiple vehicles. Cipher is only a data logging and diagnostic tool. Tuning a CVT transmission currently is more that difficult it is almost impossible to do to the degree you'd be able to do with a normal auto or manual transmission. The issue is that we cannot load a CVT car on a Dyno.
I'm certain we will be able to offer the ability with Osiris Tuner to allow you to do "street tuning" at some point, and allow for AFR adjustments to keep the motor safe, but not really sure at this point about how to do full RPM sweep tuning on a dyno to make the motor as efficient and powerful as possible.
The +/- 2 degree is not a timing adjustment. It is a sensor adjustment. I know people treat it like a timing advance, but the ECU does things in milliseconds, degrees is a mechanical adjustment. All the timing of the ECU is done in milliseconds because timing at 6000rpm is different than timing at 1200rpm. Static adjustments can be harmful when you consider the range of adjustment the ECU uses and the fact that all the timing is totally dynamic.
Rich-
It looks like the dyno is out for us CVT owners. I sent him another e-mail asking for clarification on what he said about the timing.
11-16-2009, 06:44 PM
#13
I fired off an e-mail to Uprev regarding the Cipher, and this is their response:
Don,
Cipher is a non-licensed product it can be used on multiple vehicles. Cipher is only a data logging and diagnostic tool. Tuning a CVT transmission currently is more that difficult it is almost impossible to do to the degree you'd be able to do with a normal auto or manual transmission. The issue is that we cannot load a CVT car on a Dyno.
I'm certain we will be able to offer the ability with Osiris Tuner to allow you to do "street tuning" at some point, and allow for AFR adjustments to keep the motor safe, but not really sure at this point about how to do full RPM sweep tuning on a dyno to make the motor as efficient and powerful as possible.
The +/- 2 degree is not a timing adjustment. It is a sensor adjustment. I know people treat it like a timing advance, but the ECU does things in milliseconds, degrees is a mechanical adjustment. All the timing of the ECU is done in milliseconds because timing at 6000rpm is different than timing at 1200rpm. Static adjustments can be harmful when you consider the range of adjustment the ECU uses and the fact that all the timing is totally dynamic.
Rich-
It looks like the dyno is out for us CVT owners. I sent him another e-mail asking for clarification on what he said about the timing.
Don,
Cipher is a non-licensed product it can be used on multiple vehicles. Cipher is only a data logging and diagnostic tool. Tuning a CVT transmission currently is more that difficult it is almost impossible to do to the degree you'd be able to do with a normal auto or manual transmission. The issue is that we cannot load a CVT car on a Dyno.
I'm certain we will be able to offer the ability with Osiris Tuner to allow you to do "street tuning" at some point, and allow for AFR adjustments to keep the motor safe, but not really sure at this point about how to do full RPM sweep tuning on a dyno to make the motor as efficient and powerful as possible.
The +/- 2 degree is not a timing adjustment. It is a sensor adjustment. I know people treat it like a timing advance, but the ECU does things in milliseconds, degrees is a mechanical adjustment. All the timing of the ECU is done in milliseconds because timing at 6000rpm is different than timing at 1200rpm. Static adjustments can be harmful when you consider the range of adjustment the ECU uses and the fact that all the timing is totally dynamic.
Rich-
It looks like the dyno is out for us CVT owners. I sent him another e-mail asking for clarification on what he said about the timing.
Is his partner named Lean??
11-16-2009, 11:50 PM
#14
I thought I had read that there was a problem dyno tuning the car because you cannot hold the trans in 3rd gear to make the pull. I could be wrong, but I thought I had read a couple threads that said that the CVT made dyno tuning difficult. As far as the Cipher, it looks like it is mostly data logging, but it says you can change timing +/-2 degrees, and you can adjust engine idle rpm +/- 250rpms.
11-18-2009, 10:22 PM
#15
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Here was my follow-up e-mail to Cypher:
Rich,
I realize that the "base" timing changes as the rpm's increase/decrease. If I understand correctly, then the Cipher allows you to change the "base" timing +/- 2 degrees?
Thanks,
Don.
They responded with this:
Don,
It's not a base timing adjustment. Nothing in the ECU is measured in degrees. All timing is done in milliseconds, so adjusting 2 degrees could be enough to cause detonation and destroy your motor. You can adjust it if you like.
Rich-
So if advancing our timing 2 degrees will kill our motor, why is everybody doing it? I'm still lost on his first response that said it is not a "timing" advance, but a "sensor" adjustment. It says right on their web page for the Cypher that you can adjust the timing +/- 2 degrees? I thought it was kind of a **** response to give to a potential customer. Can anybody explain this to me? I'm kind of lost.
Rich,
I realize that the "base" timing changes as the rpm's increase/decrease. If I understand correctly, then the Cipher allows you to change the "base" timing +/- 2 degrees?
Thanks,
Don.
They responded with this:
Don,
It's not a base timing adjustment. Nothing in the ECU is measured in degrees. All timing is done in milliseconds, so adjusting 2 degrees could be enough to cause detonation and destroy your motor. You can adjust it if you like.
Rich-
So if advancing our timing 2 degrees will kill our motor, why is everybody doing it? I'm still lost on his first response that said it is not a "timing" advance, but a "sensor" adjustment. It says right on their web page for the Cypher that you can adjust the timing +/- 2 degrees? I thought it was kind of a **** response to give to a potential customer. Can anybody explain this to me? I'm kind of lost.
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