KillaKam

I just filled my tires w/ nitrogen at the dealership today. i must say that the handling is even better on the car around corners and the ride is a lot smoother.... I would def recommend to anyone.

MaxMus

???

eric_holmes

iTrader: (5)

Dry air contains roughly 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases. People selling "nitrogen" for your tires are ripping everyone off.

Gollum67

iTrader: (1)

His handling improved probably because he is now riding on correct tire pressure

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

+1 to wikipedia for knowledge

eric_holmes

iTrader: (5)

lol, yup I knew it was 70 something but I didn't know all that other crap.

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

Your dealership loves you.

CT Maxima

I have access to rare gases and have filled my tires with Krypton. Similar to pure Nitrogen, this nobel gas increased the performance of my Maxima. I was able to pull 1.036 G's in one test. In another test, I was able to get 32 mpg in highway driving.

The best attribute of Krypton is that unlike Oxygen and Nitrogen, the common atmospheric gases, Krypton is monoatomic, not diatomic. What this means is that tires filled with Krypton are immune to slow leaks. This feature is great when dealing with a TPMS.

It is amazing what a different inflation gas can do for your Maxima.

The above post was my attempt at sarcastic humor. It seems that nobody got the sarcasm so I'd better not quit my day job.

I did not use Krypton nor is anything above true.

Some on this Board have correctly identified the Ideal Gas law as the controlling principle. This law states that the change in pressure due to temperature in a constant volume tire is inversely proportional to the molecular weight of the gas. There is not a dime's worth of difference between the molecular weight of air and nitrogen. They expand and contract the same in response to temperature changes. Water can make a difference but the content in air is so small and its effect is tiny.

Very dry nitrogen is used in optics where condensation can cause a problem. This nitrogen is cryogenically cooled to wring water out of it to achieve a very low dew point. I suspect this is not the type of nitrogen used by the dealers.

In sum, this nitrogen craze will have its day. Some will believe it works and pay those who want to profit from it. I prefer to keep my money and use plain old air.

Power620

The thing that makes Nitrogen better is the stability it has on temp change (maintains the air pressure) no low tires when its cold. They say you will get less low tire lights when running, would I pay for it? no but it came on my car.

bk2k3max

I have Crack loaded into my Tires, it really makes me fly Hiiiigggghhh!!

ajm8127

iTrader: (8)

LOL!

I know people use nitrogen in air tools and in remote pneumatic shock reservoirs sometimes because unlike compressed air, the tank nitrogen has no water vapor in it. This is probably how it got into tires. Problem is, on the inside of a tire, there are only rubber and magnessium/aluminum.

According to the ideal gas law, PV=nRT, the only difference would be the actual ammount of nitrogen molecules would be different simply because nitrogen is smaller than O2, which is mixed with the nitrogen in air. This is for an "ideal" gas though, and no such gas exists. However, air is mostly N2, as has already been pointed out, so I would think that the temperature stability is BS. Show me emperical evidence and I will recind that last statement.

As far as krypton sealing leaks, it has nothing to do with the molecular structure, and everything to do it the fact that one Kr atom is MUCH bigger than two N atoms.

Power620

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...o/4302788.html
Like I said, I have it in mine but would not have paid for it.

ajm8127

iTrader: (8)

Interesting article. I found it odd that it said water vapor inside a tire can corrode an aluminium wheel. That's interesting. Wikipedia aluminium page:

"Aluminium is remarkable for its ability to resist corrosion (due to the phenomenon of passivation) and its low density."

It makes sense that water vapor would contribute more to change in pressure versus temperature though. But really, you should be checking your tire pressure every month though, so I don't see it being a big deal.

I still would like to see someone fill a tire with air, and one with nitrogen to equal preassures on a hot day, then throw both into a chest freezer for a day and read the preassures (edit - dried air of course!).

All in all if someone tried to convince me to fill my tires with pure, dried nitrogen, I'd tell them I was running late, and mabe we could another time.

Power620

I have seen the inside of an old aluminum wheel that had moisture in it, it was pitted and chalky looking. Someone must have had a lot of water in lines?

dkmura

Nitrogen knowledge at: http://www.nissansportmag.com/blog/

BigPete

iTrader: (2)

Nitrogen is better for tires. It handles drastic temperature changes better and also holds constint pressure. Water vapor is also an issue when using regular compressed air, if anyone has ever filled a tired youll notice moisture coming out of almost any compressor. No matter how "stainless" or "aluminum" a product is, it will suffer from moisture eating away at the metal.

Most shops charge anywhere from 15-25 for a complete nitro fill and around 5-10 to top off the tires. You can actually purchase a nitro fill package from most Nissan dealerships for about $55 and its lifetime nitro fills/top offs.

For the peace of mind about cold weather/temp changes and the added benefits of nitro it makes spending $20 worth it. Not to mention you will get extra life out of your tires due to the better pressure regulation and cooling properties of nitro.

Stop being cheap skates

nissandrvr98

iTrader: (3)

Cubatobaco

Interesting read!

I don't need air/N2 yet in the tires, but I will have to consider the nitro package.

IH8SPM

I have it on my car and my temps are always way out of range. I may have to go back and get this checked.

Juggernaut23

Then your name must be Michael Delorean? If so push some of that weight my way please.

smarty666

It just a way for the stealerships to make more money and rip you off. Hence why they are called stealerships and not dealerships. My Nissan stealer doesn't offer this but my Infiniti stealer advertises this up the wazoo. Like others have pointed out, do a little research, the normal air pumped into tires contains a little over 70% nitrogen so what they are offering makes no difference. I know my Infiniti stealer who offers the nitrogen filled tires charges ridiculous stealership prices for doing it.

ITS A RIP OFF PEOPLE, DON'T BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF!

IH8SPM

I got done foe free which makes me wonder if its even in there. In any case you should just check your tire pressure weekly or monthly to make sure its set correctly.

exl_ent_v6

I had Nitrogen put in the tires of my last car and it helped keep the tire pressure correct in all temperatures. I would do it again if it were a 1 time fee at my dealer.. I have to check.
Keeping the correct amount of air in the tires at all times keeps the MPG high and keeps the tire wear on spec. Therefore you will get better life to your tires.

2 GO B4

Can you spell.....P L A C E B O......I guess if I fill my tires with Helium gas....I will corner at 2.55G.....that's SICK duuuudddeee! ....um.....No....I think the tires will be much happier though and the car will float away into space....yikes!

Seriously though....people love to think up things that rip others off.....just check your tire pressure....rotate...and balance regularly......that's it.....come on guys....40 bucks!

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

How true...lol, go to Discount tire if you have that where you live you can have all of that done for less than 40!

lightonthehill

Speaking of psi, we will soon be approaching that time of year when the temperature drops drastically, and a tire that reads 33 psi at 95 degrees will drop to nearer 28 psi at 40 degrees, even if no air is lost.

So we need to check our psi more often as the weather cools off.

After running with 36 front and 35 rear for the last six months, I just changed to 37 front and 36 rear cold psi. I base my adjustments on whether the tread is wearing faster in the middle (psi too high) or on the shoulders (psi too low). I usually manage to wear my tires out evenly across the entire tread face, which maximizes my mileage.

This very careful attention to my tires (and to the way I drive) has enabled me to get excellent service from my RS-As on both my 6th gen and my 7th gen. But I still change brands whenever my RS-As finally wear out, because I feel there are better tires out there for that kind of money.

My system of constant adjustments would be cumbersome if I were using pure nitrogen. I have read about the nitrogen for years, but never found any long-term controlled study to prove or disprove any benefit. Of course proof is less important for some folks; hundreds of millions of dollars worth of herbal supplements are sold each year, and few if any studies (or proof of results) have been done on those, either.

Whatever makes us happy . . .

Norm Peterson

Any measurable benefit is going to be from the N2 fill being drier, assuming that the N2 generator has such a capability.

As I understand it, atmospheric air is 78% N2, and most commercial N2 fills hover in the 95% to maybe 98% range. IOW, all you get for your $ with a N2 fill is at most a 25% increase in the concentration of the most abundant atmospheric constituent. Which still has to follow the gas laws, since there's nothing magic about nitrogen.

My take is to save your money, buy a good tire pressure gauge instead, and then use it on a regular basis.


Norm

smarty666

Best advice I can give people, if your like me, especially when the temps change a decent amount, I would say a 10-20 degree differ, I check my air pressures weekly with a gauge. Nothing substitute for checking and inflating/deflating your own tires. I like doing it myself so I know its at a pressure that is comfortable for me and that its done right.

You all know the old say, "If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself!"

LtLeary

The biggest benefit in my mind is for steel rims. I've had a couple rust from the water from regular air fills (many have no water filter inline). With our aluminum wheels, not such a big deal. As Smarty says, if you want something done right....make sure your compressor has an in-line filter!

Norm Peterson

BTW, don't put too much trust in the TPMS sensors or their calibrations. Never mind that their setpoints are much lower than you should let your tires ever get (normally).


Norm

JohnBurns

That concerns me a little. Are you saying we should just ignore the sensors and check our tires manually periodically?

Norm Peterson

Yup. Under normal conditions and as far as owner periodic maintenance is concerned, just forget that TPMS is even there. People WILL use the presence of TPMS to take the place of proper monitoring, never mind that the fine print in the owner manuals says otherwise. It's inevitable - people are basically lazy.

TPMS is allowed to be set to alert you when a tire is at up to 25% under recommended inflation. But there has to be a production tolerance in their capability from one sensor unit to the next, and I've already seen tires that were one or two psi below a claimed setpoint not cause a warning. I've also experienced a false warning.


With respect to N2 fill - even if the 21% oxygen content does diffuse through rubber a little faster than nitrogen does, with periodic checking that becomes a non-issue. Diffusion of any gas through a tire's halobutyl liner is very slow. Through, around, or between anything else in a tire/wheel pressure boundary is a leak and the N2 will escape just as fast along those paths as the rest of the gases inside do.


Norm

lightonthehill

Carrying Norm's thoughts a little further, for those of us who measure their tire pressure frequently, and who take the time to look closely at the tires every time we enter the car, the TPMS system rarely comes into play. I think of it as a means of confirming that any sudden rumble I feel in the steering wheel is indeed the result of a flat tire and not a radical change in road surface.

smarty666

Of course you do. You can never go by the sensors or even vehicles that are equipped with TPMS that show the air pressures! The best way is to check your pressures manually, at the minimum, once a month with a high quality air pressure gauge! For me, it gives me peace of mind every time I check it manually.

lightonthehill

This can go several ways.

If you are among those who carry the Nissan-recommended 33 psi, then a sudden cold snap or a month of inattentiveness could result in the psi dropping and the TPMS light coming on when you are just four or five pounds low, and just adding air to bring things back to 33 is all you need. In that situation, the TPMS serves a purpose.

BUT

A few here have found that their TPMS light comes on at 29 psi. Others find it comes on at 27 psi. And many have had it come on when their tires were somewhere near the recommended 33 psi, and didn't understand why. It could be a faulty tire guage or a faulty TPMS system or who knows what.

Those of us carrying higher psi (35, 36 or 37, etc) and checking our tire pressure regularly would normally have the TPMS light only come on if a tire sprung a leak or went flat. If there is a slow leak, the TPMS may alert us in time to get the tire fixed before we are stranded. But if the TPMS light comes on because of a flat, it is telling experienced drivers what they would already know - a tire is flat.

Checking the tires visually every time you approach or leave your car, and using a good tire gauge every week or two, and before every long trip, are good habits to form. I have been doing those things for over sixty years.

MadMax07SL

I checked my tires manually at least twice a month for a while. Every time I checked, I also went back and check the TPMS, and it's exactly what I found manually. I feel that I can genuinly trust the system regularly now, and only check manually maybe once a month. When the temp drops I can see on the LCD readout that the presure is lower then what I want, so I air up then, and of course check manually, only to confirm TPMS is still accurate.

I think it's irresponsible to completly rule out using the system, when it seems to work very accurately...

Norm Peterson

Disagree. To trust this system implicitly is what's irresponsible.

Measurement accuracy and tolerances aside, it's only there to generate a warning of at least 25% underinflation.


A mindset that too easily gives too much credit to these electronic systems is a mindset that's far too willing to abandon individual responsibility in the belief that such responsibility will be provided for them by others. Treat TPMS as a warning system - however advanced that any particular system might be - and nothing more.


Norm

gizzsdad

For those who may question this I offer the following anecdote:

I have elected NOT to put sensors in my winter(stock) wheels. The sensors are installed in my summer(aftermarket) wheels.

When I changed from summer to winter wheels last December, it was about the third day before the warning light came on. After that, it came on reliably, every time I started the car. But why not for three days??????

MadMax07SL

Perhaps you and I must be talking about two different things. You're talking about a warning system, I'm talking about the current pressure reading on the headsup display. In my '07 I can see what pressure the wheels are at via the sensors, and when I've checked manually I find they are perfectly accurate. If it's cold, I check the headsup, and if I see enough of a drop on the pressure at all four I know it's time for me to get the compressor and gauge and get them back up to par. If one should be much lower then the others, I can see it right away with the pressure readings. Albeit, it doesn't tell me what tire is where in the display. Now that's annoying! But at least I know if one is low, I just have to find it manually.