My friend and I raced yesterday on a TRACK and this is what happened.

My car ha Stillen Intake, Racinglinee Y-Pipe and Deleted Resonator. No more of my Apexi Exhaust.

His car has a Injen CAI, and a Greddy Exhaust.

We rolled on 40-110 and I had a jump start then after we got to 80 he started passing me little by little he beated me by almost 2 cars till 110... What is going on here! My car stock has more HP. Do I need to look in at anything maybe something is wrong with my car?!

 

3 letters.....C.V.T.

The CVT transmission limits tq past about 90mph. The car is quick to 90 but then slows down dramatically.

 

Your absolutely right, what's up with that piggy back thing that gives you 20-30 HP and takes of the governer? Does it really work or it's BS?

 

Definitely the cvt holding the max back. Those 5.5 gen maximas are pretty quick when modded.

 

It's this POS CVT that Nissan installed on this 4DSC.

 

How big of a jump did you get from 40 to 80mph. Also is his car auto or stick?

But like everyone said, that how its geared. Which isn't bad for most street use and what most people will accelerate to. Also the o2 is about 400 pounds lighter.

I wanna see how y'all do from a stop also.

 

with what i've done my best acceleration range is from 50-110 but after that it does drop off quick. my boy Dave's 7th gen has full bolt-ons including custom hfc's and an uprev tune and his 7th gen ***** out. probably doesnt help the car weighs 3600 pounds..

 

Two different cars. My daughters 03 Maxima SE is very quick. Drive the 2012 and just not as peppy as the o3. Just a fact of life.

 

A stock 5th gen would not have a better elapsed time than a stock 8th gen, even though the 8th gen is several hundred pounds heavier.

I drove a 5th gen for five years, and have driven my 8th gen for 3 1/2 years, and the passing speed (say 40 MPH to 80 MPH) is quicker with my '09. Almost takes my breath away.

The CVT does indeed sort of slow things down at speeds above 100 MPH. But that speed is legal only on tracks. Very few Maxima owners drive much above 100 MPH, and the 8th gen was never built with racing or very high speed driving in mind. For any sort of normal driving, the CVT has the elapsed time edge and the fuel efficiency edge over all other Maxima transmissions. It just doesn't 'feel' like it when we drive each of these generations.

The 'yank' at each gear shift on the 5th gen makes us feel like we have great power, but in actuality, each shift of the gears reprsents an instant when the motor is sucking gas, but the car is not accelerating. The CVT has no shift points. Elapsed time runs done on tracks by posters here soon after the release of the 7th gen proved it did better time than drivers felt it was doing.

But this 7th gen is a reasonably heavy near-luxury car, never intended for racing. That is probably why Nissan has no performance mods available for the 7th gen.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Very good observation. I'll need to see for myself once I break in the 2012 Maxima I bought my wife. Then I'll revisit this post.

 

he mis-typed. we all know 8th gen isn't due out unitl 2014-2015.

 

Kevin007, who passed away a couple years back told me that he used D until 75 then shifted to manual and got better response in the top gears from doing so. He raced his CVT 2007 Max on drag strips and went over 100 mph and in the high 13's if I recall.

 

This would be the only point that a 7th gen would be a tad quicker (Light I'm sure its much quicker than a 5th gen but not nearly as much vs a 5.5 or 6th)........We all know from a stop it sluggish, 5.5 gens and 6th Gens take off quicker. Once 80-85 ish the CVT just makes the Max fall flat on its face where as the gears in the 5.5 and 6th gen keep them better in the power band hence better high speed acceleration. Mackc hit it on the nail, I have seen this happen in the real world several times between a 5.5 gen and 6th gen not 6.5 against a 7th gen. Power to weight is not that much different between them.

I test drove a 13 Altima 3.5 and I must say that the revised CVT is quite a bit better than the one in the Max, the difference is bigger than it was from the revision in the 07/08 Max to 09+.

 

Good post, MONTE.

First, I meant 7th gen where I had 8th gen in my post. Posting at 5AM when I haven't been to bed yet will cause things like that. I can assure everyone here I do not have an 8th gen hiding in my garage. In my head maybe, but not in my garage.

I drove a 2000SE for 5 years, and was thinking in terms of the 2000 vs the 7th gen. I forgot the 5.5 was a tad peppier than the 5.0.

And you are correct that where I had 100 MPH in my post, I probably should have said 85 MPH, as that is probably the speed at which the CVT begins to ease back a tad, although the full ease back may come at a slightly higher speed. I do almost all of my driving at speeds around 85 and below, so have not been handicapped by the CVT easebacks in those very high speed situations.

Yes, as you say, the Maxima CVT has been slightly 'cushioned' at takeoff by Nissan, possibly to protect it until Nissan could be sure it was up to the task. Those who had their tranny software 'reprogrammed' in their '09s say that helped takeoff speeds, but I don't know if that was an opinion or somehow verified.

Of course I will always stand by my position that the CVT (or close equivalent) will eventually become the standard tranny in most sedans, because, all else being equal, a tranny that does not have to shift will give better elapsed times and better fuel economy because it avoids shift points.

Shift points are detrimental in that, if only for an instant, the engine is running, but the car is not accelerating. Those companies going to 7 and 8 speed trannies in order to keep up with the CVT are simply adding more shift points, each of which improves acceleration and efficiency over shifting trannies with fewer shift points, but the downside is that the increasing number of shift points keeps it from catching the CVT, which requires no shift points.

The best thing about CVTs is that they are still in thir infancy when compared with the manual trannies, which have over a hundreds years of development behind them. We will see steady improvement in CVTs for years to come.

I am very happy to hear about your experience with the '13 Altima. Do you know whether the CVT itself has been improved again, or just the software changed to allow faster takeoffs? The '13 Altima continues to get rave reviews, and that gives me great hope for the 8th gen Maxima, as Nissan always makes each new generation of the Maxima clearly better than the Altima in production at the time.

 

The CVT was revised internally, alot of the parts/belts etc etc have been redesigned. It really mates to the 3.5 really well, didn't bother driving the 2.5 version which 90% will be!

 

I'm with you on the 2.5. The 2.5 gives great fuel efficiency in a roomy, stylish, reliable car with no hybrid gimmicks. Perfect car for MOST folks, who are using the car simply to get somewhere, and aren't into lots of power.

But the 3.5 is the only Altima that Maxima drivers should even look at. I saw two more new Altima's today, and for the first time, I think I saw a hint of the 7th gen Maxima's styling when viewed from the side.

Thanks for the info on Nissan's REDESIGNED Altima CVT! This could work out well for folks interested in the 8th generation Maxima, in that Altima drivers will be the guinea pigs for Nissan's latest CVT. All bugs will probably have been corrected before the first 8th gen Maxima reaches a dealer's lot in spring/early summer of 2014.

As usual, I plan to ignore those traditional warnings about buying the first year of any new generation vehicle and grab an 8th gen as soon as the dealers have finished with the suckers paying full MSRP for a newly designed car. After a month or two of getting at or near full MSRP, dealers will have to stop the nonsense and deal with normal folks. At that point, I will be getting an 8th gen Maxima, just as I have bought the first model year of every Maxima gen except gen 1.

 

there is NO reason why a 2002-2003 maxima should be beating you in a race unless there is something wrong with your car.

 

Would be nice if the new CVT showed up in the 13 and 14 Max , interestingly this yr the 13 Z's are appearing before the 13 Max......

 

I wonder why? With the relatively minor tweaks on the '13 Maxima, I would think the assembly line conversion would be quick and easy. But maybe there are more unbought 2012 Maximas still sitting on lots than Zs. Or maybe there have been tweaks added to the Z that Nissan thinks will improve sales.

Or maybe it is something as simple as the assembly line whose products include the Z is converting to the '13 models sooner than the Smyrna assembly line whose products include the Maxima. Or maybe Nissan is having trouble getting a supply of a new part that is required for the '13 Maxima. The Fukushima incident was over a year ago, but the situation in Japan is not good at all. Brownouts and periods without power are making life miserable and production hit-and-miss.

EDIT - I think I finally figured this out. The new completely redesigned '13 Altima is produced on the same assembly line as the Maxima, and dealers are desperate for a supply of '13 Altimas. Many prospective '13 Altima buyers are pre-ordering and are sitting on a waiting list. The urgent dealer need for the hot-selling '13 Altimas is far more important to Nissan than slowing down Altima production to produce the large number of '13 Maximas needed to have the official '13 Maxima release. The timing of the '13 Maxima release is not urgent, as it is essentially the same car as the '12 Maxima.

This urgent need for an immediate supply of new Altimas is also important because the Altima is Nissan's high-volume bread-and-butter car, and competes in a more hotly-contested class of cars (Camry, Accord, Fusion, etc) than the Maxima, which does not have a truly exact competitor.

 

C'mon man.

 

OH NO You DIDN'T!!!!

 

A NYer, so I guess you murdered em all out there, on the track of course ...

 

Taurus, Impala, Charger, Avalon, Azera......

 

 

...

 

Its all on the car some are lightly modded and some are heavily modded...but havent really heard good things on the CVT....

 

No, everything is as it should be. Stop racing your friend's 5.5 gen and using that to measure value in your car. There are other far more important considerations.

And don't use words like "beated" out loud, in public. People will think you're a retard.

My car weighs 3700 pounds, and has no weight issues that I'm aware of.

Go figure.

 

I beg to differ. I said TRULY EXACT COMPETITOR. There are differences between the Maxima and each one of these you listed. Every car you listed has some good points, but I don't see any of them as being a truly exact competitor of the Maxima, especially in styling.

The Taurus is a fine car, but the turning radius is much wider than the Maxima, the driver's space is narrower than the Maxima, the FWD version is more in the Camry/Altima price range, the Taurus is much further from being a 4DSC than the Maxima, and the Taurus does not have an available CVT.

The Impala? To quote Consumer Reports - 'Handling is clumsy, the ride is unsettled, noise levels are elevated, the rear seat is skimpy, fit and finish is second rate. The Impala scores too low to be recommended.' Competitor for the Maxima? Haah. Also, the top priced Impala costs less than the bottom priced Maxima. I really do not see a Maxima fan even slowing down as he cruises by a Chevy 'bailout' lot.

The Charger? Rear wheel drive, which is a major difference with the Maxima, no CVT available, and historically a mixed reliability record.

Avalon? The Avalon may be the best car ever made to get grandma to Sunday School on time, or take our grandparents on a long freeway trip. But no CVT is available. CU says handling is not that agile. But the Avalon has never been known for its agility. It is a better competitor for the Crown Victoria-type category.

The Azera? Simply a stretched version of the Sonata, which is a good car, but not a Maxima. No CVT is available. It is too early to be sure how good the redesigned Azera will be. I happen to have been around for awhile, so saw the heartache owners (including my son) had with their Hyundais in the last half of the 1980s. I will never forget that. Having said that, I think the latest Azera may be a closer match to the Maxima than most cars. I just wonder why I never see them on the road around where I live? I've already seen dozens of the '13 Altimas, but almost never an Azera. I don't even see many Azeras when I go on long road trips. But I surely see Maximas everywhere.

 

These are your opinions and obvious observation on specs, because you stated them doesn't make them obsolete from being competitors... its like going into a impala or avalon forum and asking the same question...

 

Well then, go read some of the posts from LightOnTheHill. He uses CVT as a benchmark much in the same way that my benchmark is that a car has a proper manual transmission.

LOTH, you're right that none of those cars can be well matched to the Maxima. However, if you take one step back... they're all 4-door sedans with a slushbox, and all of them are playing in the same market segment. So in that respect, they certainly are comparable.

Also, knocking the Avalon for not being "agile" implies that the comparative car (the Maxima) actually is. And while it's nice for a big 4dr, the word "agile" is hardly appropriate.

Also also, the 2014 Impala may just surprise you. At least, MT thinks so. Personally, I'm not having high expectations.

Lastly, good to see you again. Always a pleasure to read your posts.

 

TL FWD, great competitor to Max. Both FWD with Sporty Intentions and similiar missions and prices in the market.

 

This would be my pick as one of the closer Maxima competitors. The TL FWD is actually a little sportier and a tad less roomy and accomodating than the Maxima, but other than that, they are obviously aimed at pretty much the same target audience.

 

Thanks for the good words.

I would never question that the listed cars are in the same general market segment, as are most midsize four door sedans. but I carefully used the words 'TRULY EXACT' for the express purpose of bypassing cars with different trannies, different drive systems, slightly different target audiences, etc. My point was that there are differences that would prevent SOME folks that are interested in the Maxima from being interested in those other cars.

For instance, I drove RWD cars from 1949 until 1984, and then discovered FWD. I will never buy a RWD car again. I drove manual and auto tranny cars from 1949 until I bought my '09 CVT Maxima. I honestly think the CVT has the potential to be the fastest-accelerating and most fuel efficient tranny out there, and will not be buying another car with a shifting or shiftable tranny.

In other words, the Maxima is in a very large group of midsize 4 door sedans, but has no TRULY EXACT competitor.

Thanks again for reading my (admittedly opinionated) posts.

 

Very true. I did emphasize the downsides of those cars, and honesty requires me to say the Maxima also has downsides, especially to those not enamoured with the CVT.

But I drew much of those opinions from hundreds of posts I have seen here on the ORG over the years, as well as from Consumer Reports and other car mags such as Road & Track and Car & Driver. Yes, those sources are also simply opinions, but when enough opinions are somewhat similar, then we are probably approaching the level of 'fact.'

I think the only way we are seeing things differently is that I very carefully said 'TRULY EXACT' competitors, and you are talking more about those cars being in the same midsize 4 door sedan general market as the Maxima, which of course they are.

Thanks for your observations. You are absolutely correct that the boards of those other vehicles will have a different view of things.

 

You know, or I think you know, that I also have a high appreciation for nuance, recognizing and perhaps over-analyzing the subtitles that separate these cars from one another. However, having moved on from the Maxima to the Infiniti... and not just any Infiniti, but the Sport Sedan 6MT, I have to say (with as much humility as I can muster) that those subtle differences are irrelevant from the perspective of a car that simply performs better in every conceivable measurement.

Except mileage.

Similarly, I will never buy a FWD car again. And I will continue to value rowing my own gears until it's no longer available, or I lose my left foot... whichever comes first.

 

Actually the SV Sport handles better and is more nimble than the FWD TL, now the SHAWD TL handles better than both as its on par with the G37S/AWD line.

 

What I call a "Entry Level Premium Sedan" - I dunno what the official category is.... But it's still a step down from "Luxury Sedans" So this wouldn't be fair to put in a BMW 5, Chrysler 300, Caddy CTS, G37 (Which IMO is just out-classed by everything else, it's in a wierd category people usually consider G37 or BMW 3 not the 5), etc. in this bunch:

TL
Maxima
Taurus
Avalon
Azera
Impala
Charger
CC
MKZ (Not so sure on this one).

LOTH, while nicely written and formatted, I didn't read your cool story, I immediately recognized that it was not the correct response. Pops (Rochester) + Esco, hit the nail on the head on cars in the Maximas "Class." Your response is merely opinionated and can be argued until the end of time, while mine is something a bit more fact based and can be argued for a short period of time.

ONE MOAR TINGGG (insert pops-like pop culture image)
-The 03 Maxima was not made in the same "Class" any newer maxima. The Maxima before 2004 competed with the other non-luxury flagship sedans..... Camry, Accord, Taurus, etc..... The Maxima back then made sacrifices such as.... Manual Driver seat, cloth interior, tape players, things paupers would succumb to, and the Maxima still shined for decades, even with it's lack of a 4 cyl option (when you make a badass motor.... you make a badass motor nomsayin? Nissan re-used the ch1t out of only 3-4 engines in ALL of their vehicles during a generation, that was their cost cutting measure... Think I'm lyin? Look @ Toyota.... )

Where things had to changed was when the sales fell of the vehicle because the American climate in Sedans shifted more towards bigger sedans that have a low price tag.... So the Altima was nissan's perfect fit because it was already making cost cutting measures for the car, why not make it bigger to compete with the Accord and Camry which were already in the lame family sedan market? Look around the same time ford started making the Fusion and the demise of the Taurus... See where I'm getting with this by car "Class"?

 

There's nothing "S" about the G37xS. You need the RWD version of the car (7AT Journey or 6MT) in order to get the sport suspension, thicker sway bars, big-brake kit, sport steering, summer-only tires, and staggered rims.

All the Sport Package gets you in the AWD G is sport seats, the nicer front bumper, and side-sills. Just fluff, no performance. In other words, comparing the TL SHAWD to the G37xS is no great compliment to the Acura.

Just saying. Carry on.

 

Lol, I had that slash there to differentiate the 2 offerings of the G37 with Sport package and AWD one. I know there isn't any of that, but it is Infinitis comparable if you want an AWD in that price range, sporty or not.