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Hello all,
My name is Matt, and I'm from NYC, and this is my first post on this site. Ive been a member of many car forums though. I'm a car/driving enthusiast.
I traded in my 2015 Nissan Rogue for a 2017 Nissan Maxima S 2 weeks ago, and I love it. There is one issue though... From the day I drove it off the lot, the steering had a slight favor to the right. It wasn't pulling but there was less resistance to turn right than left if that makes sense to you.... Overall the steering was firm to the left, and top dead center, the way it is supposed to be... It was just a little less firm to the right.
But over the course of the next 2 weeks and 600 miles, my steering started losing the heavy weighty, precise steering that I loved about it. It is now lighter feeling and more sensitive to directional changes, even in Sport mode (which I pretty much exclusively drive in).
I took it to the dealer a week ago and they told me "nothing is wrong with it". So I took it back today and got the service manager involved... He made them throw it up in the alignment rack, and low and behold it was out of alignment....
The left front toe was out, which they fixed... However, the front overall camber is .02 degrees out of spec... And the right rear camber I s right on the very edge of being in/out of spec at -1.1 degrees. The left rear tire is at zero.
I've included the alignment sheets. I'm assuming the camber is causing the steering issue. The car only has 630 miles and I miss potholes like my life depends on it.
What are your thoughts about the camber being out, and the possible causes for it? They told me to come back on Friday and they will probably have to get Nissan corporate involved if I'm still having steering issues, because the camber is not adjustable. Btw, the steering is only marginally better after they fixed the left front toe.
This is an interesting read because my new maxima has 450 on the odometer and since I got it I have noticed a slight pull to the right with my hands off the wheel in a straight line. Was planning on evening out the tire pressure but I was considering the possibility of it being an alignment issue. Guess I'll have to bring it to the dealership and see what they have to say about it and what they can do
I spoke to the director of service today and he told me to come in on Monday to their Ford store (they are a big outfit with 4 brands) because the ford dealership has a more accurate and better alignment machine. I guess he wants to confirm just how bad the alignment is.
My 2016 SR was off slightly to the right as well. My 2011 SV Sport was the same when I got it. This is because most factory specs have an offset caster which causes the slight drift to the right. FWD cars also typically have more negative camber, the tires angle to the pavement. This way during acceleration, the tire will sit flat against the road. Toe is how the tires are aligned with each other.
I don't have the specs on mine, but I have my alignment guy do my alignments with a slight toe in, and equal caster. This gives my car solid straight line characteristics, but does give slightly more torque steer under hard acceleration. It isn't uncontrollable by any means, and no more than most other 300 HP front drivers. I don't run around accelerating hard all the time anyway so I'll take that sacrifice on the acceleration to get a better solid straight line drive. My car tracks straight down the freeway at any speed with it settings. I also get very even tire wear across the tread. Now if you are a very aggressive corning driver, or prefer hard acceleration from every stop, then you will probably want slightly different settings. I'm not saying what my car is set at gives bad cornering or acceleration characteristics, but there are more optimal settings for each of those driving styles.
In other words you need to find an alignment guy that understands alignment and it's effects on your car. Also someone who you can tell them what driving style you prefer and can set your alignment to suit your needs. Most dealerships are going to set your car to specs, cause that what they have to do, or all they know how to do.
HoustonQX3
Last edited by HoustonQX3; 06-26-2017 at 04:54 AM.
My 2016 SR was off slightly to the right as well. My 2011 SV Sport was the same when I got it. This is because most factory specs have an offset caster which cause the slight drift to the right. FWD cars also typically have more negative camber, the tires angle to the pavement. This way during acceleration, the tire will sit flat against the road. Toe is how the tires are aligned with each other.
I don't have the specs on mine, but I have my alignment guy do my alignments with a slight toe in, 0 caster ,slight positive camber, with a positive toe angle. This gives my car solid straight line characteristics, but does give slightly more torque steer under hard acceleration. I don't run around accelerating hard all the time so I'll take the sacrifice on the acceleration to get a better solid straight line drive. I also get very even tire wear across the tread.
In other words you need to find an alignment guy that understands alignment and it's effects on your car. Also someone who you can tell them what driving style you prefer and can set your alignment to suit your needs. Most dealerships are going to set your car to specs, cause that what they have to do, or all they know how to do.
HoustonQX3
Thanks for the reply!
The problem is, our camber/caster angles aren't adjustable from the factory. As you can see from my alignment spec sheet, all my wheels have camber to the left of the vehicle. Which means they are all tilted to the left and there is no way to adjust it. That would indicate something is wrong somewhere with the vehicle.
So I ended up taking the car back to the Ford store of this particular group of dealerships, because they have a better alignment machine there... These were the final specs after they did the alignment (pictured).
it would seem that the machine at the Nissan store was WAYYY off. The camber is fine in the front and the right rear tire has -.4 more camber than the left rear (camber isn't adjustable), but I don't think that's anything to write home about.
The toe in the right rear tires are in spec, but slightly toed to the right from dead center..... I'm not sure if that would cause right drift or not at this point.
I havent had a chance to really drive the car since the alignment because I had to go out of town for a few days, but my initial drive from the dealership to home felt more controlled than before the alignment.
I will have a more in depth idea when I get back and get to drive the car over a few days
So, the steering is still very light and it doesn't have the directional precision that it had when I drove it off the lot 1600 miles ago. It also still pulls to the left...
So I did another alignment at the dealership... When in, and the alignment was out again. Barely drove the car since the last alignment...
The service director was present for the whole thing, and he stood there with me for whole process and was apologetic about my experience with the steering of this maxima so far. He said he used to work for Ferrari, and is a driving enthusiast too, and understands the importance of precise steering.
For this last alignment, it took them about 40 minutes JUST to get the right rear wheel in spec... They would adjust the camber, and the toe would fly out of spec... The they'd correct the toe, and the camber would be way off...
All in all, it took them over an hour to get the whole alignment done as a result. On paper the alignment was perfect, but the steering is still vague and it still pulls to the left.
The service director said, "something is definitely wrong with your car. Call Nissan consumer affairs to start a case, so we can get a Nissan Engineer down here to inspect it."
So that's what I did. I called Nissan corporate last week, they were in contact with the dealership today, and they just called me today and said they were going to set up an appointment to have one of their regional technicians come and inspect my car...
So I brought my Maxima to the dealership today to meet with the Nissan Corporate person so that he could inspect/test drive/try to diagnose my steering issue.
So I drove the car first, then he drove it, and he confirmed that he felt the poor on-center feel as well.
The next step was to check the alignment... So he drove the car onto the alignment machine, and I went to get some breakfast. I returned in time to see him removing the sensors from the wheels, lowering the alignment rack, getting in, backing up, and turning the wheel too soon.... And this was the result...... The car slammed into the pit.
So now I have a 2017 Maxima S rental, and they are ordering the piece of the subframe they slammed into the ground and bent, and still trying to figure out what is wrong with my steering.
I'm so blown away... I don't even want the car anymore. It's insane. I don't even care if they fix it at this point, because I'm over it... I don't want it back.
I was ****ing pissed. I had to laugh to keep from tearing sh_t up.
I told them point blank, "this isn't my car anymore. One of you needs to figure out how you're going to take this car back, because I'm not." Had the general sales manager, and the service director called down for this.
i dnt know what nissan is doing, but for every nissan my family has driven since 1997 they all lean. but it looks like not the case for most. they're not bad, but noticeable... even with "passing" specs.
I was ****ing pissed. I had to laugh to keep from tearing sh_t up.
I told them point blank, "this isn't my car anymore. One of you needs to figure out how you're going to take this car back, because I'm not." Had the general sales manager, and the service director called down for this.
Man I feel for you. Holy **** I would have been livid!!!!! I would have told them the same. You just bought the car back from me. Sadly I think they are going to give you a big problem as its not that simple. Probably going to have to get a lawyer involved when push comes to shove in the end. Thank goodness you was there to document this happening. I guarantee you this would have been hidden and they never would have told you what really happened.
I agree! Now they have my car for a week and God knows what I'm going to find when I see it again. I'm not taking the keys back. They can do whatever they want. I don't even care about the car anymore.
I take such good care of this car. If I know I'm going to a location with terrible roads on the route there, I leave the car in the garage and take the train... So NYC potholes don't tear the suspension up. I park strategically so no one bumps into it... I do my best to make sure that even water spots don't get into the paint...
And these monkeys drop it into a ****ing pit! What do I even care about my car for?
This would be almost beyond belief, except you have the pics that leave no doubt. I have no earthly idea what I would have said if in your situation. But I am sure I would not have wanted my young grandchildren hear me say it.
I'm kinda glad I kept my cool as well as I did... I was Uncharacteristically (for me) calm in fact... It definitely could've gone in a different direction... That's why I had to laugh... To keep myself from tearing the whole shop up...
I was still very visually and vocally upset, and they all knew it, and I made sure they got the f away from my car when I saw that 5 of them were all offering each other 5 different ways to get the car out of the hole, and none of them knew what they were talking about... I was very adamant that this was no longer my car...
But the service director, who has been very good to me and my family over the years, especially through this process with the Maxima.... Asked me to let him get the part and go from there. As far as I'm concerned, I am no longer the owner of this Maxima.
But, he told me to trust him, and so instead of me using blunt force to achieve the goal of getting a new car, I'm going to use finesse, and let him do his thing... I should be hearing from them in the next couple of days.
Stopped by to check on the car today... This is the piece of the sub frame bracket that they damaged when they dropped the car... And of course, they damaged the car AGAIN today, by placing the arms of the lift in such a way, that it was right up against the rocker panel, and scraped the paint. SMH... They better give me a new car after all this.... Now after all this damage they've caused, they still are trying to figure out the source of the steering issue. Unreal
I would be done with the BullShi__! from them, ask to speak to the Owner for the dealership, not the shift lead, not the supervisor, not the manager, the owner, and have him buy the vehicle back. Then have him let you pick out what you want from the lot. If he does not agree to your terms tell him you are calling your local news channel and reporting them to the better business bureau! Not one of the best choices you would wish to take but it will work.
I would be done with the BullShi__! from them, ask to speak to the Owner for the dealership, not the shift lead, not the supervisor, not the manager, the owner, and have him buy the vehicle back. Then have him let you pick out what you want from the lot. If he does not agree to your terms tell him you are calling your local news channel and reporting them to the better business bureau! Not one of the best choices you would wish to take but it will work.
I'm with you. And that is how I would usually handle it. But the service director said that he wants me in a new car too, because he doesnt want to lose me as a customer, or my dad, or my stepmom (we have all been customers of this dealership with a collective 7+ cars between the 3 of us over the years)... But he has a few steps he needs to go through before it gets to that point.
So I am as of right now, going to allow him to do what he needs to do. I am collecting my evidence of everything that is happening, and leaving a trail of emails just in case....
If this process doesn't get me into a new car organically, I will definitely get more aggressive about it. But for now, I want to be more diplomatic. But I will not be accepting this car back into my possession without a fight
I'm also going to consult a lemon lawyer because they've done 5 wheel alignments on this car and the steering is still the same. Now they're trying to check the tires
So I got my car back... I'm not the happiest about it. But the service director said that the Nissan corporate guy "said he did an alignment and it's fixed now." Which is bull****. I'm supposed to believe that the same guy who dropped my car into a pit has magic hands that can adjust an alignment better than the 5 alignments I got previously.
The service director understands my frustration, and told me that if the car isn't 100%, to call Nissan and start the lemon law process.
Guess what, the car pulls to the left even more than before now... So hopefully soon, I can get this process underway, and be in a(nother) brand new 2017 Maxima.
Or maybe I'll buy a certified g37x/q40 at this point... Who knows. I love my 2017 maxima, but Nissan quality control seems shoddy these days
Ok guys so long story short, as an update, I got a lemon lawyer and decided to keep the car with a cash settlement from Nissan...
So now I'm still paying my lease on this car for the next 2.5 years.
So here is the deal with my steering... It still has the left pull, but I got an alignment recently that has made it much less prevalent.
I have been able to identify the cause of the weird feeling in my steering... I've noticed that the steering does not want to return to top-dead-center after a turn... It seems to stop at about the 1/8 turn mark, and you have to manually have to turn it back the rest of the way.
This basically means that on the open road, there isn't much resistance to turning in either direction, because the wheel isn't trying very hard to return to center...
I believe that this may be caused by my front Caster. It is a little negative from where it should be stock, as shown in this picture....
Now, from what I understand, in stock form, there is no way to adjust front caster from the factory, but does anyone know a way that I can change the front caster to be about .6 to .8 degrees more positive? I think 5.0-5.2degrees positive should make it feel much better than 4.4 degrees, and it should give it that resistance, and returnability that my steering is missing.
06-21-2017, 09:50 AM
