A/F tuning?
10-13-2004, 06:40 AM
#1
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A/F tuning?
I'm NA for now and i'd like to get the absolute most power out of my motor...
what should i tune my A/F ratio to? it shouldnt be long before i get to the dyno...i want to tune it on the verge of destruction then back it off a little
all i have to play with though is an S-AFC and timing.
what should i tune my A/F ratio to? it shouldnt be long before i get to the dyno...i want to tune it on the verge of destruction then back it off a little
all i have to play with though is an S-AFC and timing.
10-13-2004, 07:05 AM
#2
Originally Posted by MaDMaX024
I'm NA for now and i'd like to get the absolute most power out of my motor...
what should i tune my A/F ratio to? it shouldnt be long before i get to the dyno...i want to tune it on the verge of destruction then back it off a little
all i have to play with though is an S-AFC and timing.
what should i tune my A/F ratio to? it shouldnt be long before i get to the dyno...i want to tune it on the verge of destruction then back it off a little
all i have to play with though is an S-AFC and timing.
10-13-2004, 10:01 AM
#6
This really depends on what kind of driving you intend to do. If you want to go run WOT for long periods of time then you shouldn't go above 13.0:1. If you want the power for short bursts only then you can get away with 13.5:1 or even 14.0:1. But again it really depends on how you want to use the car and there are other limiting factors to this as well.
I keep mine at about 13.5:1 for drag racing but If I was going to run the Silver State Classic I would tune mine for 12.5:1. And even with it tuned that rich it will still make some very high EGTs.
I keep mine at about 13.5:1 for drag racing but If I was going to run the Silver State Classic I would tune mine for 12.5:1. And even with it tuned that rich it will still make some very high EGTs.
10-13-2004, 11:11 AM
#8
Originally Posted by I30tMikeD
3rd gen steve
Inability to change timing at will (except to retard) is the Achilles heel of the 4th (and higher) gen. I'd love to be able to run zemulator on my car.
10-13-2004, 11:22 AM
#9
Im having a local install an safcII on my 04 maxima within a month. Jime gave me a few tips on what I should do. This guy is going to street tune it with a wideband 02 since he doesnt have a dyno. I know hes never worked on a 04 maxima before but he saids hes installed and tuned over 50 SAFCs so im pretty sure hes good. Also im not sure about how to wire this thing up, if anyone could give me any helpful advice it would be greatly appreciated.
10-13-2004, 11:49 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
To clarify, he can change only is base timing which will alter the maps across the board. But he does have the option of buying a JWT ecu for the VE30DE. I have one and it's great
10-13-2004, 11:53 AM
#12
JWT ecus are not adjustable. The Zemulator is adjustable I believe. Or they have a version that is. Not quite sure if they have one for the maxima. Z only I believe. Aaron has one on his 3-gen. How well it's actually working? I don't know
10-13-2004, 11:57 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
JWT ecus are not adjustable. The Zemulator is adjustable I believe. Or they have a version that is. Not quite sure if they have one for the maxima. Z only I believe. Aaron has one on his 3-gen. How well it's actually working? I don't know
10-13-2004, 12:02 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
JWT ecus are not adjustable. The Zemulator is adjustable I believe. Or they have a version that is. Not quite sure if they have one for the maxima. Z only I believe. Aaron has one on his 3-gen. How well it's actually working? I don't know
The JWT ecu is indeed adjustable. Ya sends it back to JWT with a $100 bill and they adjusts it for ya. I wish we were able to do that ourselves using software and a laptop, like the Z folks.
10-13-2004, 12:03 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I don't see any problem with it. You will never get JWT to say it's okay though
10-13-2004, 12:13 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by IceY2K1
FIRST question should be...what fuel octane are you running?
10-13-2004, 12:15 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
To clarify, he can change only is base timing which will alter the maps across the board. But he does have the option of buying a JWT ecu for the VE30DE. I have one and it's great
i'm waiting for ashley powers to come out with the zemulator for the VEs. i will swap the Z32 MAF eventually (as its needed for boost) but until then its straight SAFC tuning.
10-13-2004, 12:16 PM
#19
Supposedly, you can advance timing with the SMT6 or eManage($272+$100 support tool).
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
Ahhhhh.
Inability to change timing at will (except to retard) is the Achilles heel of the 4th (and higher) gen. I'd love to be able to run zemulator on my car.
Inability to change timing at will (except to retard) is the Achilles heel of the 4th (and higher) gen. I'd love to be able to run zemulator on my car.
10-13-2004, 12:24 PM
#20
Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific....
What fuel *OCTANE* are you running? 91? 93? etc?
What fuel *OCTANE* are you running? 91? 93? etc?
Originally Posted by MaDMaX024
only premium for my baby...actually i run premium in my beater saab too..dont want it self destructing under 24+psi on the highway, need to be able to resell it sometime.
10-13-2004, 01:02 PM
#22
Yes, I'm well aware of Turbo95's experiences. I feel for that guy. Engines go boom and can't even catch a break when he pays for it. But with that, my off the shelf JWT has been great. Really picks up the low end and increases everything else accross the board. Not that you could accomplish the same thing with some type of emanage (if they will work on our cars) but for the price I got it for, it's a steal.
Stephan, I know I can send it back but that's not really my defination of "adjustable" as it's used here.
Stephan, I know I can send it back but that's not really my defination of "adjustable" as it's used here.
Originally Posted by MaDMaX024
i dont trust JWT, i dont like their customer service and there is another member somewhere on the board that had his car tuned AT jim wolf and they were giving him sh*t about how the car isnt fast, this and that.
i'm waiting for ashley powers to come out with the zemulator for the VEs. i will swap the Z32 MAF eventually (as its needed for boost) but until then its straight SAFC tuning.
i'm waiting for ashley powers to come out with the zemulator for the VEs. i will swap the Z32 MAF eventually (as its needed for boost) but until then its straight SAFC tuning.
10-13-2004, 01:19 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Stephan, I know I can send it back but that's not really my defination of "adjustable" as it's used here.
I'd also like to say I'm very happy with my JWT ecu. Especially after I solved the partial throttle pinging problem. I think it's a great product, even at $600, and the 7200 rpm fuel cut is icing on the cake.
10-13-2004, 08:31 PM
#24
After I switched to the '00 VI and '00 injectors, I took my car in thinking I was possibly running rich due to the larger injectors. As the guy was tuning it, he found different areas where it went rich but when he tried to dial them back I lost peak power and the rich area would jump to another spot in the rpm's. We monitored timing closely to see if it was getting pulled it it stayed very steady, never falling. Towards the end of the dyno session, I told him I had a JWT ECU and he said the tuning must be close to dead on. He even spent an additional 30 min. messing with it and never got any more power than the baseline pull, even though there were areas he thought could be leaned out for more power. Has anyone experienced this?
10-13-2004, 09:32 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by BSwithTF
After I switched to the '00 VI and '00 injectors, I took my car in thinking I was possibly running rich due to the larger injectors. As the guy was tuning it, he found different areas where it went rich but when he tried to dial them back I lost peak power and the rich area would jump to another spot in the rpm's. We monitored timing closely to see if it was getting pulled it it stayed very steady, never falling. Towards the end of the dyno session, I told him I had a JWT ECU and he said the tuning must be close to dead on. He even spent an additional 30 min. messing with it and never got any more power than the baseline pull, even though there were areas he thought could be leaned out for more power. Has anyone experienced this?
10-13-2004, 10:58 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by krismax
My timing is all over the place constantly getting dialed back i believe with my 8000RPM fuel cut JWT programed it to retard unless the conditions were perfect.
10-13-2004, 11:25 PM
#29
****...mine increases from 14-degrees to 40-50 degrees usually. I've even logged 60, I believe. That's why I'm asking. I'm wondering if they were monitoring base timing or actual timing.
My theory from what I've read is that as you increase pulse-width, you increase timing, so if he's decreasing fuel, ie pulse-width, then he could be retarding timing and thus peak power.
My theory from what I've read is that as you increase pulse-width, you increase timing, so if he's decreasing fuel, ie pulse-width, then he could be retarding timing and thus peak power.
10-13-2004, 11:35 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by IceY2K1
****...mine increases from 14-degrees to 40-50 degrees usually. I've even logged 60, I believe. That's why I'm asking. I'm wondering if they were monitoring base timing or actual timing.
My theory from what I've read is that as you increase pulse-width, you increase timing, so if he's decreasing fuel, ie pulse-width, then he could be retarding timing and thus peak power.
My theory from what I've read is that as you increase pulse-width, you increase timing, so if he's decreasing fuel, ie pulse-width, then he could be retarding timing and thus peak power.
10-14-2004, 02:17 PM
#34
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Posts: 2,105
so whats the bottom line for my a/f? i run 93 octane like its my job..if i can get higher octane, i do....i wanna start mixing race gas but the cost of premium isnt costing enough to justify buying a 55gallon drum of toluene 
10-14-2004, 02:25 PM
#35
I'd say follow SRs 13.5:1 as a starting point, then start leaning it out until torque falls, then back it off 0.5AFR.
I'm not sure I'd tinker with advancing timing withOUT a J&S or some kind of knock meter/indicator.
I'm not sure I'd tinker with advancing timing withOUT a J&S or some kind of knock meter/indicator.
10-14-2004, 07:49 PM
#36
MadMax, with all my research and talking to Ash... he told me to shoot for 12.8:1 to 13:1 AFR with my NA motor. That is what he tunes all his customer's NA z32s to. He has great results too.
Stephen, I have the Zemulator in my VE Auto. But, there are still some issues that I have to work out first before I can actually see any decent HP gains. Originally, I got the Zemulator to work in my VE Auto by swapping in a z32 ECU and z32 MAFS. After a great deal of research and soldering, I got it to work just fine. I was able to use the Zemulator (z32 tuning system) in my Maxima. But, I believe that there are still some issues that are keeping me from seeing any gains in performance. I just don't completely trust having a z32 ECU in my car. So I have removed that system and am currently running the stock ECU and stock MAFS.
So, since the VE ECU has no daughterboard and EPROM, it is almost identical to the 95+ z32 ECUs and the SR ECUs. What these guys do in order to adjust their parameters is add an EPROM and daughterboard. So, once you have an EPROM, you are able to burn chips for it. But, even better, you are able to emulate it!! That is where the fun begins.
So, I am still talking to Ash Powers of AshSPEC ECUs. What I am going to do with his help is, order a daugherboard from overseas and tune it just like the Silvia guys do. That will enable me to finally use the Zemulator with the VE ECU. That will clear up any doubts that I had about the Z32 ECU swap.
I am hoping to get this Zemulator working in my VE ECU before winter is over. I hope to see atleast 14.0s this winter. Finally, here are some pics of my setup:
PLX devices wideband o2 sensor that I datalog with the Zemulator
The Zemulator already plugged into the z32 ECU
A little soldering work I had to do to trick the z32 ECU into thinking I had sensors that I don't really have
Stephen, I have the Zemulator in my VE Auto. But, there are still some issues that I have to work out first before I can actually see any decent HP gains. Originally, I got the Zemulator to work in my VE Auto by swapping in a z32 ECU and z32 MAFS. After a great deal of research and soldering, I got it to work just fine. I was able to use the Zemulator (z32 tuning system) in my Maxima. But, I believe that there are still some issues that are keeping me from seeing any gains in performance. I just don't completely trust having a z32 ECU in my car. So I have removed that system and am currently running the stock ECU and stock MAFS.
So, since the VE ECU has no daughterboard and EPROM, it is almost identical to the 95+ z32 ECUs and the SR ECUs. What these guys do in order to adjust their parameters is add an EPROM and daughterboard. So, once you have an EPROM, you are able to burn chips for it. But, even better, you are able to emulate it!! That is where the fun begins.
So, I am still talking to Ash Powers of AshSPEC ECUs. What I am going to do with his help is, order a daugherboard from overseas and tune it just like the Silvia guys do. That will enable me to finally use the Zemulator with the VE ECU. That will clear up any doubts that I had about the Z32 ECU swap.
I am hoping to get this Zemulator working in my VE ECU before winter is over. I hope to see atleast 14.0s this winter. Finally, here are some pics of my setup:
PLX devices wideband o2 sensor that I datalog with the Zemulator
The Zemulator already plugged into the z32 ECU
A little soldering work I had to do to trick the z32 ECU into thinking I had sensors that I don't really have
10-14-2004, 07:50 PM
#37
I had to tap into the correct sensors (MAF and CAS) so the Zem can do it's job
This is the labjack that you use to tap into any signal you want to datalog with the Zemulator
And this is the Zemulator program on my laptop
This is the labjack that you use to tap into any signal you want to datalog with the Zemulator
And this is the Zemulator program on my laptop
10-15-2004, 11:30 AM
#39
I noticed my DE-K started to loose TQ around 13.8:1 A/F, I found the most power at around 13.2:1 with peak power at 6600RPMs. I got no detonation what so ever, dyno was done with a Consult hooked up to monitor detonation. Listening to the engine it made pure melody with no pings or anything. Even with 12.8:1 it made decent power but lower end power was down by 3WHP till about 3500RPM an then it made decent power. I kept it 13:1 on 93 octane, it gives me the best throttle response. Since my VIAS aint working now, I pulled S-AFCII out till I repleace the intake manifold- mine is not fixable with 100K miles.
