whats going on guys.

I was helping my friend along with a few friends doing a 3.5 swap on a 2000 max. the motor was already prepped and was on a 4th gen i believe and was pulled out.

we dropped the engine in there with a return fuel set up and using stock fpr. turned the key and it did not start.

we checked/redid all the grounds and even added a few more. swapped with another working 3.5 cps, swapped another working 3.0 cam sensor but did not swap the crank sensor under the pulley yet. however, i noticed the unorthordox crank pulley was not rotating straight. it looked slighly warped.

there is fuel and there is spark but not constant spark when i was grounding a spark plug.

i cleaned out all 6 plugs since it was flooded by fuel. still no start but it sounded like it wanted to start.

I was thinking maybe swapping to a stock crank pulley, changing the crank sensor. Even changing from return to returnless fuel set up...

any suggestions? i appreciate your help thanks

 

sounds like the timing is off.
If the motor was running fine in a 4th gen, and was untouched then dropped into the 5th gen, test the sensors with a multi meter and see if they fall into spec.

which oil pan and crank sensor was used? 3.5 pan and 3.0 sensor? or 3.0 pan and sensor?

 

flywheel aligned properly? dont know if it was even take off or not

 

CODES CODES CODES!!!!!

Instead of swapping and geussing on different cam/crank sensor issues, check for codes first to narrow it down.

If none are present I'd take a breif look at the sensor grounds first (the ones located on the IM on a 4th gen, and IIRC on the TC on all 5th gen's, but it might just be the 5.5's and the 5g's are somewhere else.)

THAN, I'd do a real nice job adding some big **** cables for that starter ground to engine (As well as cleaning up the stock grounds - battery cable, battery tray, & bank 2 cylinder head). This is a common problem after engine or trans installs when you don't do what you MUST which is take a sanding disc or some elbow grease to: the engine and tranny bellhousing, as well as the bellhousing and starter contact points.

These things really are finicky little bastards to a properly grounded starter, if it sounds like it's cranking well except does a "crank crank crank pop crank pop crank crank......." (pop/stutter/stuck dealy can sometimes be real intermittent), accomponied by a no-start with no codes, yet plenty of fuel and spark, than this could very well be the problem. Good luck.

 

Well as you've said the pulley looks warped so just try using the stock one and see if that works. And as long as the fuel lines are hooked up properly it doesn't matter if it is return or returnless.

 

I second the crank pulley. Mine wasn't warped, however the ring was 180* off. so you can imagine not reading correctly. Worth a check. It's 10-15 minute to change to the stock one, don't even worry about the belts for the first start. Change the pulley and give it a shot.

 

got the car started for a bit swapping the crank pulley. but the battery is dead and wouldnt hold charge anymore so will be looking into it again tomorrow night. thanks for the replies!

 

car has a hard time starting...problem a ground problem or maybe a cps problem.

no cps codes. at all...just air and fuel metering and a few others which i do not remember.

when we get the car started...it does not idle at all. we are using a pathy tb with iacv..i guess i can adjust the tb a bit more....any suggestions would be appreciated thanks!

 

any vacuum leaks? Since your using the pathy TB did you make a block off plate, or seal it up?

 

vacuum leaks...yea just 1...i have to look tmrw. as for the pathy tb..using the iacv on that one so no need to use a block off plate or seal it up.

we added a ground wire...car started up no problem but just stalls out and wouldn't idle...you can hear it wanting to stay on at 500 rpm but just dies.

after the car warms up...tried to start it again...hard start....going to ground the starter tmrw and i guess try to find some vac leaks and fix them.

is there anything else i should be checking? thanks

 

sounds like leaks, if it will start up but stalls right out, must be a pretty big leak to do that. other smaller leaks cause a high or fluctuating idle.

vac leaks wouldn't cause a hard starts. whats your fuel pressure set at? did you check the crank sensors?

 

yeaa but we were working on it at night so it was hard to see. i know the small leaks flucuate while idle since i have a small leak somewhere on my ride which i can't find.

well im thinking about grounding the starter too since i guess these 5th gens are really sensitive with these grounding points. we are using the stock 5th gen fpr so i guess that is set to 34psi? I did not check the crank ref sensor yet since it was too dark outside and i was working on my car fixing a few things.

 

changed the tranny ground to 4ga wire and it started right up but wouldnt idle as eric said. after the car warmed up and it stalled, it became more difficult to start up. it drops to about 500rpms and then pauses before finally stalling out. checking for leaks. believe all sensors are fine. having some maf issues but i believe that may be related to the vafc-ii wiring on the ecu, possibly loose because the maf works sometimes. tested with 2 mafs and both are known to work 100%. idling issue could very well be a fuel issue but no gauage attached to check pressure. will update as more progress is completed and things are checked. somewhat confused as to the starting issue unless its simply the pita grounds that need to be properly sanded down and cleaned. thanks for the help guys, its greatly apprecited

 

Definatly a vacuum leak my car did the exact same thing when I first did my 00VI swap.

 

Also I'm guessing you all will be the first to swap a 3.5 into a 5th gen?

 

thought it was done before..dont know who but I could have sworn I saw a 5th gen with the swap.

 

get the car running befor eyou hook up the vafc or anything else. also make sure all of your vaccum lines are attached or blocked off

 

Sorry,dont actually know anything about the 3.5,but I had almost the same thing when swapping vq20de to a vq30de. My problem was those tiny chips in the keys. We did lots of other things when swapping and locks were also changed ,so we tried to get the 3.0 litre engine running with 2.0 chip. Just throwing ideas.

 

car starts, car idles. sometimes it idles as if it has a vacuum leak. maf problem is still a little odd, vafc was removed. hopefully will be driving it this week

 

Did you calibrate the TPS? Mine popped out of place and I couldn't start the car to save my life. I'd also try using the stock crank pulley. The crank sensor at the crank pulley and at the tranny are absolutely essential.

 

update: attempted to drive the car tonight. oh boy lmao. rpms would shoot up to 4k on their own without touching the gas. at one point i put it in third and the car was driving itself holding at 2-3k rpms. put it in neutral at a red light and the rpms would fluctuate from 2-4k up and down, put it in gear they'd go down to 1k until i step on the gas a little then shoot back up to 3-4k. maf is still intermittently losing signal or something because suddenly i wont be able to rev past 2.5k rpms and then i have to turn the car off and back on and its fine. i dont know what the deal is with the maf but the rpms might be tps?

 

No signal from the TPS will shut you down hard at 1500rpm. A bad MAF causes a fuel cut at 2500rpm. A bad maf won't cause huge RPM fluctuations though. That's a classic sign of a vacuum leak.

What throttle body are you using?

What fuel regulator are you using?

Did you put the stock crank pulley back in?

Did you calibrate the TPS (very important)?

Did you use new IM gaskets?

Any OBD-II codes?

Have you tried looking for vacuum leaks by squirting carb cleaner at potential sites for a vacuum leak?

What's your vacuum at idle? Should be 16-23 in. of Hg. A low reading could be valve timing and/or indication of a vacuum leak. The vacuum should hold steady as well.

Are you sure you torqued down the valve covers and IM to spec?

Are you sure the PCV valve is functional and connected to the IM correctly?

 

you have a vaccum leak at the iacv on your pathy tb. i had the same issue with mine and i blocked off the iacv and the car idled and drove fine. those guys should know that since my car was in his shop a few mths ago

 

leak at vias plate fixed. iacv block off plate used because pathy iacv was faulty. tb screw adjusted and tps adjusted again and again. maf issue still exists. maf intermittently cuts out and you have to turn the car off and back on, very confused as to why. somewhat convinced it is the wiring. car pulls hard, i'm relatively pleased, just running rich right now.

 

damn i hope you get this fixed soon

 

swap the Maf with working one. if the new maf you switch on acts the same way then its the wiring or something else besides the Maf itself.

 

its happening with 2 mafs that are both known to be working. its almost guaranteed that on the first start up the maf will act up. today i had to rev up to 4k, put it in first gear quickly and then its fine after that.

 

if you used two mafs that you know work and it still acts up then its not the maf. it must be something else.

what are you tuning with? did you install something that taps the maf wire and maybe its not a clean connection?

 

vafc2 - its coming out this weekend and the eu is going in. we'll see what happens

 

may want to sort out the MAF issue before you add the EU to the mix... can make for more complications

 

yeah the pathy iacv works just fine, its just that our ecu cant control it. you might just have a bad maf. but the iacv issue was old news in the thread i made about my cars issues. it seems that working in that shop makes you so tired you miss al the little things

 

definitely, pulling an all nighter to do the swap then going there at nights after work tired and **** didnt make it easy. bright and early on a weekend morning and it all started to make sense. eric kept referencing your car, but we needed to check everything. the maf worked fine with the dek and vafc for almost a year and after the swap im having the issue. this 5th gen ecu is a pita apparently

 

so the car runs, runs real hard. the only issue is still this damn maf. ill try to explain the issue as best as i can:

start the car, drive down the block, hit the 2500rpm malfunctioning maf limit. turn car off and back on, no more maf issue and i can rev out all the way to redline like normal....until the next time i turn the car off and then we start the process all over again. WTF??? ecu issue? im stumped.

 

your maf might not be read by the ecu properly. try turning the key and letting the pump prime and do its pre-start checks and then fire the car up and see if its the same issue as if you just twist the key in one quick motion.

I would also just bite the bullet and get another maf to trial fit and try and narrow down your issue some.

 

Did you remove the VAFC during the install or snagged the intercepted wire on the ECU. That may be causing the MAF problems.

 

ive tried 2 different working maf sensors. same process occurs for both. priming doesnt change anything either.

vafc was completely redone post swap to try to eliminate possible causes for the maf issue. i'm going to swap out the ecu to another one i have and see what happens.