3.5 swap backfire, hesitation, wont rev pass 4,000 rpm
01-02-2013, 10:07 PM
#1
3.5 swap backfire, hesitation, wont rev pass 4,000 rpm
Hi guys, i have been reading a lot of thread about this symtoms and there no conclusion about it. I just open this thread because i have this symptoms with my car and i can even make it to run normaly..
Mods:
05 3.5 engine from a maxima
Ported heads
Ported lower and stock IM
NWP delete plate
JWT S1 cams
Auto stock ECU from 1995
1@1 FPR
Z32 fuel filter
Z33 injectors (purple)
OBX headers
UR pulley
Greedy SP2 catback ( no catalytic)
3.0l timing with stephen max adapters and 3.5 cams tensioners
01 path throttle
Converted to 5 speed
AEM wide band
Things that are waiting for to be installed:
Greedy EU with pnp harness from surratt
Spec stage 3 clutch
Custom IM
100mm throttle w/ Q45 TPS
Brief description:
Car start normally, give gas for a couple of sec and start to idle normally.. ( when i said normally it means the same issue all the 3.5 swappers have when its cold and no IACV its connected)
At first the car run good and it pulled hard even without any tune done to it.. The car makes 246hp on a dynojet with 10.6 on fuel ratio and a slippin clutch.. Then the car start to make like a hesitation under heavy load like in 3,000 to 4,000 rpm and then it cleared out and pull hard up to the top.. This problem start to go more badly with time.. Now i can even drive it normally.. Like i said before its star " normally" and i can get it to idle.. When you go for a drive just after he pass the 3,000 rpm the car start to hesitate, choke in and my wide band goes 10.0 without fluctuate. The car wont pass from 4,000 rpm at wot.. When you let go the pedal it backfire loud..
Things i already replace and nothing:
ECU
FPR for a new one
Mass air flow ( test it with another one running perfect and nothing happend)
TPS
Found a bad connection for one of the TPS connectors and replace the two plugs ( still with problem)
Things it could be...?????
Bad injectors ( getting stock open)
Fuel pump?
Bad timing?
Any suggestion?
Sorry uys for the wall of text but i think its the only way to explained my case and if we resolved to make it useful for other orgers.. Thanks in advance for the help
Mods:
05 3.5 engine from a maxima
Ported heads
Ported lower and stock IM
NWP delete plate
JWT S1 cams
Auto stock ECU from 1995
1@1 FPR
Z32 fuel filter
Z33 injectors (purple)
OBX headers
UR pulley
Greedy SP2 catback ( no catalytic)
3.0l timing with stephen max adapters and 3.5 cams tensioners
01 path throttle
Converted to 5 speed
AEM wide band
Things that are waiting for to be installed:
Greedy EU with pnp harness from surratt
Spec stage 3 clutch
Custom IM
100mm throttle w/ Q45 TPS
Brief description:
Car start normally, give gas for a couple of sec and start to idle normally.. ( when i said normally it means the same issue all the 3.5 swappers have when its cold and no IACV its connected)
At first the car run good and it pulled hard even without any tune done to it.. The car makes 246hp on a dynojet with 10.6 on fuel ratio and a slippin clutch.. Then the car start to make like a hesitation under heavy load like in 3,000 to 4,000 rpm and then it cleared out and pull hard up to the top.. This problem start to go more badly with time.. Now i can even drive it normally.. Like i said before its star " normally" and i can get it to idle.. When you go for a drive just after he pass the 3,000 rpm the car start to hesitate, choke in and my wide band goes 10.0 without fluctuate. The car wont pass from 4,000 rpm at wot.. When you let go the pedal it backfire loud..
Things i already replace and nothing:
ECU
FPR for a new one
Mass air flow ( test it with another one running perfect and nothing happend)
TPS
Found a bad connection for one of the TPS connectors and replace the two plugs ( still with problem)
Things it could be...?????
Bad injectors ( getting stock open)
Fuel pump?
Bad timing?
Any suggestion?
Sorry uys for the wall of text but i think its the only way to explained my case and if we resolved to make it useful for other orgers.. Thanks in advance for the help
01-03-2013, 07:42 AM
#2
with all your mods, and a 10.6AFR --- A TUNE would have been your #1 priority, if not the clutch as you say it is slipping.
that's also why you made more HP than TQ on the dyno
not even going to go into cam adapters and JWT cams.
that's also why you made more HP than TQ on the dyno
not even going to go into cam adapters and JWT cams.
01-03-2013, 08:06 AM
#3
I want to finish my proyect and tune it, the reason why i want to resolve this problem first is in first place that i cant drive it to shop like this, second i bought my EU used and have a tune that we have to delete and start from scratch... The clutch was a mistake that i made and bought a E clutchmasters stage 2 and it was a scam... Thats why i bought a spec one ...
01-05-2013, 11:26 AM
#5
Well... Here it is a list of things i will be doing to get this problem done..
1. Put a grounding kit
2. Check timing on idle
2. New fuel pump ( walbro 255) just purchased
3. New injectors ( i am willing for deatschwerks 380cc or 440cc )
I will be doing this things first...
1. Put a grounding kit
2. Check timing on idle
2. New fuel pump ( walbro 255) just purchased
3. New injectors ( i am willing for deatschwerks 380cc or 440cc )
I will be doing this things first...
01-13-2013, 07:03 PM
#6
Back when I had my 3.5 swap it would randomly cut out on its own under wot in first gear at around 5k. Adjusted my fuel pressure and the issue went away. Then after doing the ssim mod to my intake manifold my car would not rev over 3.5k unless I went wot which ended up being a tps issue. From past experiences, Id say check your fuel delivery and tps to count those out first.
01-16-2013, 05:47 AM
#7
Back when I had my 3.5 swap it would randomly cut out on its own under wot in first gear at around 5k. Adjusted my fuel pressure and the issue went away. Then after doing the ssim mod to my intake manifold my car would not rev over 3.5k unless I went wot which ended up being a tps issue. From past experiences, Id say check your fuel delivery and tps to count those out first.
02-19-2013, 12:29 PM
#8
Well the problem persist.. Things alrearedy did since last update..
Replaced the fuel pump with walbro 255
Put some ground wire kit on engine and trans
Cleaned up my MAF with Maf cleaner
Change fuel regulator
Change my alternator( old one was stuck in 13.6v)
Connect my emanage ultimate and start with the same problem and i check on datta log my timing and was 16* starting it.. ( i think its ok)
Disconnect the knock sensor ( nothing changed)
Clean my cam sensor
Now if i tried to accelerated, the engine died but if let my foot on the gas it would catch up and accelerated..
Things i have to Check..
Coolant sensor
Replace injectors
Any other idea??
Replaced the fuel pump with walbro 255
Put some ground wire kit on engine and trans
Cleaned up my MAF with Maf cleaner
Change fuel regulator
Change my alternator( old one was stuck in 13.6v)
Connect my emanage ultimate and start with the same problem and i check on datta log my timing and was 16* starting it.. ( i think its ok)
Disconnect the knock sensor ( nothing changed)
Clean my cam sensor
Now if i tried to accelerated, the engine died but if let my foot on the gas it would catch up and accelerated..
Things i have to Check..
Coolant sensor
Replace injectors
Any other idea??
02-19-2013, 05:36 PM
#10
Well the problem persist.. Things alrearedy did since last update..
Replaced the fuel pump with walbro 255
Put some ground wire kit on engine and trans
Cleaned up my MAF with Maf cleaner
Change fuel regulator
Change my alternator( old one was stuck in 13.6v)
Connect my emanage ultimate and start with the same problem and i check on datta log my timing and was 16* starting it.. ( i think its ok)
Disconnect the knock sensor ( nothing changed)
Clean my cam sensor
Now if i tried to accelerated, the engine died but if let my foot on the gas it would catch up and accelerated..
Things i have to Check..
Coolant sensor
Replace injectors
Any other idea??
Replaced the fuel pump with walbro 255
Put some ground wire kit on engine and trans
Cleaned up my MAF with Maf cleaner
Change fuel regulator
Change my alternator( old one was stuck in 13.6v)
Connect my emanage ultimate and start with the same problem and i check on datta log my timing and was 16* starting it.. ( i think its ok)
Disconnect the knock sensor ( nothing changed)
Clean my cam sensor
Now if i tried to accelerated, the engine died but if let my foot on the gas it would catch up and accelerated..
Things i have to Check..
Coolant sensor
Replace injectors
Any other idea??
I would check the injectors, sounds to me like they aren't spraying correctly....
03-08-2013, 07:54 PM
#16
03-09-2013, 11:05 AM
#18
07-18-2013, 03:12 PM
#19
Well guys this is my update.. need serious help here please..
I already change my injectors with a RC 440, test them and they have 12.4 ohm all 6 with a variation of one that have 12.6.. But its on spec...
I change all 6 spark plugs with ngk new ones.
Check all coils and where on spec
Check coils harness and all 6 have 12v from batt, 5v from ECU, and ground
Check the injector harness, all 6 have 12v from batt
Change my CKPS (ref) with a new one
Change my Cam Pos sensor with a spare one
Clean out my CKPS (pos) .. It have metal shave things on it.. Check out the harness and have 12v from batt and The other cable if i am not wrong like 2 or 3v dont remember and ground ok
Change the CKPS ( pos) with a spare one
Change the coolant sensor with new one
Change my fuel filter
Change my fuel pump with a walbro 255
Added a ground kit
Change my ECU, now i am running a 97 manual ECU
I put on my knock sensor a 470k resistance
Change my 2 upstream sensor with new ones ( bosch)
Change my MAF with a original used one from a part car ( i30) that was totalled
i set my fuel base pressure to 45 psi on the regulator
At this point the car start struggleling a lot.. I can manage to rev it a little and mantaing the throttle but if i let it die it wont start again in a while..
I not have my EMU install and i know i need a tune but he was working fine before this issue.. So make me think its something else...
I check for codes ( i am a 1995 5speed swap with a 1997 ECU from a manual)
0402 fuel tank temp sensor or circuit fault
0707 downstream oxygen sensor or circuit fault ( not using it a long time ago)
0801 vacumm cut bypass valve or circuit fault
0803 Manifold absolute pressure sensor or circuit fault ( 1995 not have this)
0807 evap canister purge control valve circuit
(not using it)
0903 evap vent blah blah
1008 evap blah blah
1302 manifold absolute pressure solenoid valve or circuit fault..
The only thing i didint check was continuity on the knock sensor harness but it can this problem be related to this?
Here a vid to show what is the problem..
Anyone could help me please?
I already change my injectors with a RC 440, test them and they have 12.4 ohm all 6 with a variation of one that have 12.6.. But its on spec...
I change all 6 spark plugs with ngk new ones.
Check all coils and where on spec
Check coils harness and all 6 have 12v from batt, 5v from ECU, and ground
Check the injector harness, all 6 have 12v from batt
Change my CKPS (ref) with a new one
Change my Cam Pos sensor with a spare one
Clean out my CKPS (pos) .. It have metal shave things on it.. Check out the harness and have 12v from batt and The other cable if i am not wrong like 2 or 3v dont remember and ground ok
Change the CKPS ( pos) with a spare one
Change the coolant sensor with new one
Change my fuel filter
Change my fuel pump with a walbro 255
Added a ground kit
Change my ECU, now i am running a 97 manual ECU
I put on my knock sensor a 470k resistance
Change my 2 upstream sensor with new ones ( bosch)
Change my MAF with a original used one from a part car ( i30) that was totalled
i set my fuel base pressure to 45 psi on the regulator
At this point the car start struggleling a lot.. I can manage to rev it a little and mantaing the throttle but if i let it die it wont start again in a while..
I not have my EMU install and i know i need a tune but he was working fine before this issue.. So make me think its something else...
I check for codes ( i am a 1995 5speed swap with a 1997 ECU from a manual)
0402 fuel tank temp sensor or circuit fault
0707 downstream oxygen sensor or circuit fault ( not using it a long time ago)
0801 vacumm cut bypass valve or circuit fault
0803 Manifold absolute pressure sensor or circuit fault ( 1995 not have this)
0807 evap canister purge control valve circuit
(not using it)
0903 evap vent blah blah
1008 evap blah blah
1302 manifold absolute pressure solenoid valve or circuit fault..
The only thing i didint check was continuity on the knock sensor harness but it can this problem be related to this?
Here a vid to show what is the problem..
Anyone could help me please?
07-19-2013, 06:55 PM
#21
07-20-2013, 12:06 PM
#22
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: rotten apple(nyc)
Posts: 33
I had the same problem when I did my swap I changed the engine harness and ecu and the problem was solved maybe that ecu is bad it can happen its man made maybe you broke a few wires inside the harness during your swap it happens the harness are very stiff and brittle and too much bending causes the wire to break inside the harness where you can't see unless you get a broken wire tracer (amprobe AT-2003 advanced wire tracer) www.amprobe.com then you can diy or take to a electrician for repair.
Last edited by desmax98; 07-20-2013 at 12:12 PM.
07-20-2013, 10:46 PM
#24
Thanks desmax98.. Thats a great idea.. On Wendnesday i am going to the dyno to see if we can resolved the problem with a little tune.. If not it is the harness like you said.. Probably it is.. I let you know guys..
08-16-2013, 07:08 AM
#28
The cam adapters are made specifically so that the 3.5 cams will fit the 3.0 timing.
First of all it is absolutely RETARDED to run all these mods and not tune. You say you have a tune already on the EMU. Great. Save it or better throw it away and never look at it again ever. Never ever. I mean the car that it was tuned for did not exactly have the same mods that u did.
The emanage offers an auto tune function that at least let's u get close to a proper tune. Especially now that u changed injectors how do u expect it to run properly? When it it opens a 440 injector the same length as it would the stock 270.
Running in the 10s is pig rich for an NA engine and it is likely that it's dying out. The wide bands don't measure richer than 10.0 so u're probably running way richer than that. Turn ur emu to duty cycle and turn on auto tune.
Sounds like purely a tuning problem. Only other option is u skipped a tooth of timing by possibly not pressurizing the cam tensioners when first turning it on. After can swap u should always take out the injector fuse and turn it over a couple times dry so that oil pressure builds.
It's really nuts that ur doing all this stuff and then wonder about tuning and afraid to mess around with the emu. That's how engines get blown.
First of all it is absolutely RETARDED to run all these mods and not tune. You say you have a tune already on the EMU. Great. Save it or better throw it away and never look at it again ever. Never ever. I mean the car that it was tuned for did not exactly have the same mods that u did.
The emanage offers an auto tune function that at least let's u get close to a proper tune. Especially now that u changed injectors how do u expect it to run properly? When it it opens a 440 injector the same length as it would the stock 270.
Running in the 10s is pig rich for an NA engine and it is likely that it's dying out. The wide bands don't measure richer than 10.0 so u're probably running way richer than that. Turn ur emu to duty cycle and turn on auto tune.
Sounds like purely a tuning problem. Only other option is u skipped a tooth of timing by possibly not pressurizing the cam tensioners when first turning it on. After can swap u should always take out the injector fuse and turn it over a couple times dry so that oil pressure builds.
It's really nuts that ur doing all this stuff and then wonder about tuning and afraid to mess around with the emu. That's how engines get blown.
02-08-2014, 03:32 PM
#29
ok a little update..
McSteve, your theory about tuning problem its not correct, thanks for the recomendation on that but we make correction with the e- manage and nothing change on the performance of my motor. My tuner put -30 on the fuel map and nothing happen in the engine.. my wideband make the correction from 10 to 15 but is acting the same..
Today i connect a scanner to it that have live stream and check mi timing.. with the car shut off read 1* of timing on cyl 1.. when i start my car on idle with dificult to maintain the idle it reads 63.5 * timing.. so i think i found the problem what is..
any suggestion?
McSteve, your theory about tuning problem its not correct, thanks for the recomendation on that but we make correction with the e- manage and nothing change on the performance of my motor. My tuner put -30 on the fuel map and nothing happen in the engine.. my wideband make the correction from 10 to 15 but is acting the same..
Today i connect a scanner to it that have live stream and check mi timing.. with the car shut off read 1* of timing on cyl 1.. when i start my car on idle with dificult to maintain the idle it reads 63.5 * timing.. so i think i found the problem what is..
any suggestion?
02-20-2014, 04:21 AM
#32
update: SOLVED!!
well since i do a lot of search and reading on this org. and one thing that pissed me off is read all the thread and seen that never post any conclusion on how they fixed the problem and what cause the problem.. i can't do the same thing.. so, my problem indeed was off timing but on the crankshaft. My car never set a code that has co-relation with my problem.. but last monday i was making some datastream with my reader and check for codes and for my surprise set a P1320 code, Ignition control signal fault, and start to make some diagnostics on my crank sensor harness and all seem to be ok. I decide to pull out my Unorthodox pulley out to check the ring that read the crank sensor and when i pull out my alt. belt notice that my pulley was loose.. the bolt was ok and torque good but the pulley was loose.. i pull it out and notice that my crankshaft chunk was out of his space and damage my pulley where it sit. I put a new chunk, new crankshaft seal and my factory damper and wola, problem fixed!!
thanks to all the orgers that respond to my thread and help my out to diagnose my problem.. thanks maxima.org!
i will be on the dyno soon to make some numbers and track times.. stay tuned!!
well since i do a lot of search and reading on this org. and one thing that pissed me off is read all the thread and seen that never post any conclusion on how they fixed the problem and what cause the problem.. i can't do the same thing.. so, my problem indeed was off timing but on the crankshaft. My car never set a code that has co-relation with my problem.. but last monday i was making some datastream with my reader and check for codes and for my surprise set a P1320 code, Ignition control signal fault, and start to make some diagnostics on my crank sensor harness and all seem to be ok. I decide to pull out my Unorthodox pulley out to check the ring that read the crank sensor and when i pull out my alt. belt notice that my pulley was loose.. the bolt was ok and torque good but the pulley was loose.. i pull it out and notice that my crankshaft chunk was out of his space and damage my pulley where it sit. I put a new chunk, new crankshaft seal and my factory damper and wola, problem fixed!!
thanks to all the orgers that respond to my thread and help my out to diagnose my problem.. thanks maxima.org!
i will be on the dyno soon to make some numbers and track times.. stay tuned!!
02-21-2014, 05:55 AM
#35
thanks guys.. i will post some pictures abd then you can clarify if i am using the correct word..lol sorry guys i dont speak english every day but i am a fast learner.. do you guys know a aplication for iphone that i can use to post pictures on this forum because i have tapatalk and the forum dont appear when i searched..
02-21-2014, 12:40 PM
#36
No I dont man, but you can use a pc app like photobucket maybe or google the iphone instruction maybe? and by 'chunk' you mean the 'key' on the shaft And it was missing so basically the pulley was just held in place by the bolt only, or at least thats what I think youre saying.
Its cool to know that with all the untuned driving you did the motor is still good.
Its cool to know that with all the untuned driving you did the motor is still good.
Last edited by Maximeltman; 02-21-2014 at 12:43 PM.
02-26-2014, 06:23 AM
#37
No I dont man, but you can use a pc app like photobucket maybe or google the iphone instruction maybe? and by 'chunk' you mean the 'key' on the shaft And it was missing so basically the pulley was just held in place by the bolt only, or at least thats what I think youre saying.
Its cool to know that with all the untuned driving you did the motor is still good.
Its cool to know that with all the untuned driving you did the motor is still good.
