Hey,

I'm thinking about putting in a simple system in the near future. What size speakers fit in the rear deck? I'm not into bass so I don't plan on putting any subs in the car. Is a 3 way speaker a speaker than has a tweeter, mid, and bass? If that's correct, do they make 3 way speakers for the front or back of our cars? I'm sure they do. Any recommendation on receivers? I was thinking on the Kenwood Excelon cause of the MASK thing. But I don't really know what's good any more. I used to have a sony head unit in my sentra and a sony cd changer. The decked sucked but that changer never skipped. I'll never buy Sony again. What would you guys recommend for a head unit and speakers?

-Nick

 

They are 6 3\4" speakers in both front and rear. Also known as 6 1\2S " .Personally, you only really need to replace the front speakers. Yes a 3 way is one with a tweeter, mid, and bass. A good set of 2 way will do just fine. As far as HU's go, I am a Clarion man myself. I've owned a few, and I have had no probs with them skipping, and i work in a rural area with tons of rough dirt roads, and they work great.

 

Why would I want to not change the rear ones. That would seem like a half *** job. Aren't the speakers rated the same wattage? Educate me here.

 

The reasoning is like this. When you go to a concert, where does the music come from? In a movie theater where does most of the sound come from? IN life most of the sounds we here come from in front of us. By upgrading speakers in the rear, it CAN actually decrease sound quality instead of increase it. It's a very common practice in SQ competitions to only upgrade the front and leave in the rear speakers as rear fill. That way, it helps open the soundstage without compeating with the front upgraded speakers. Everyone that has done this, including myself have found that y upgrading only the front, I didn't need to touch the rear. My advice is change the front, then listen to it and see how you like it. Then if you still feel the need to change them you can. BTW, the rear speakers would run of the HU, not an amp, so no need to worry about wattages with them......

 

As far as what's good is concerned, I would go with the following.

Clarion
Kenwood Excelon
Alpine
Eclipse*

The reason I have an asterisk by Eclipse is that I am going to be putting an Eclipse Head unit and CD changer in my car on 3/17. The main reason I want the Eclipse is the security features and the sound quality. Also, I wanted a design that will not stand out like the newer Clarions, Alpines, and Sony Xplods. If the unit is stolen from your car, it is rendered totally useless.

 

When you talk about the amp only running the fronts ( are you talk about the HU internal amp) or and external amp. I would assume external amp. Is there a way to only run certain speakers on the internal amp? I'm not sure.

 

But doesn't sound come from everywhere?

 

Yes I am refering to running the front speakers off an external amp. Most head units today will allow you to run speakers off of the hu amp, and others off the RCA's. Simply wire up the new HU just like you were going to run all 4 speakers off the it, then connect the RCA's going to the external amp to the Front channel RCA ouputs, disconnect the speaker wires coming from the HU and run new ones from the amp..

 

Yes sound does come from everywhere. but most of the sound comes from where we are facing. Think of it like a home theater. Most sound comes from the speakers in front of you, but you have smaller, lower wattage speakers behind you to help balance it out. Same idea here. Most sound comes from in front of you, but there is enough rear fill to balance it out without competing with it...

 

I kind of see what you are saying, but why wouldn't you replace your rear speakers? You don't want different types of companies in your car. Everyone's speakers aren't equal.

 

Because the OEM speakers have more of a neutral sound, since they have no tweeters. They do their job well of providing sound, while the front speakers provide the volume and sound quality. By replacing the OEMs with 2 ways in the rear, you then can gain a problem with the tweeters refecting off the rear window and actually reducing the SQ, and can make the system sound to bright or harsh. Mind you, you only need to worry about this if you are wanting sound quality. It you are more concerned with sound quantitiy, then you can replace all 4 speakers, and run all of them off a 4 channel amp. But with the front only replacemnt, you have more money( about double) to buy a better quality set of front speakers, giving you better sound quality, and a better quality, higher wattage 2 channel amp giving you more volume. In this way, you get a better sounding system, that will play roughly the same volume, for the same invested price.

 

Man, no offense, but you've been talking out your a$$ this entire thread.

The reason competition cars don't do much witht he rears is because of kinda what you said.. judges look for a front stage, and ambiance.. they don't want an image behind you..
so what most of us competitors do is run midranges only in the rear.. dropping the highs, so you don't get much localization for the rear.. then you run the back speakers in mono with very low power- just a few echos here and there, no real music.

As for what you're recommending, it's all a matter of personal taste. if you just want a decent system without subs you almost need to upgrade the rears, as that's where most of the bass in our cars comes from. put a good set of 6.5" or 6x9 in the back and you'll be amazed at what can happen to the front.

Also, they invented fader ***** for a reason.. if there's too much going on behind you, simply turn the **** more to the front.
when you wanna crank it up, set it to the middle and have more volume.
But then again, it's all a matter of preferences.


Another blow to your theory on the rear speakers in competition is that even if they use deck power for the rears, it counts against their total power rating. there's no way anyone's gonna lose 50W of power to some cheezy stock speakers if they can put it to better use anywhere else.
Right now, I'm running ONLY front speakers because if I install rears, I'll have to add another amp to power them- which wil put me over my 600W power limit. So I just don't run rears at all.

there's much more to it than "it just sounds better and you should do it that way".. When recommending a system, always take into account user preferences and future upgrade possibilities. With no subs in the plan, this dramatically affects recommendations on the entire system.

 

Thanks!!!
I appreciate the comment!
As far as what I have explained, that is how it has been described to me. While I am not a competitor, when laying out my current system, I was assisted by an installer who answered many of my questions with the answers I gave here.
If they are incorrect, then fine. But I would not say I or anyone else was talking out of their a$$es.
Secondly, there were no direct comments such as you do it this way becuase it's better. Ther was a word used "CAN" because, there are exeptions to every case. User listen preferences are always taken into consideration when giving ones opinions, but as with any recommendation, it's a person's own choices they recommend because of their particular tastes. That's what was done here. Again, I'm sorry if my opinions are different from others....



[Edited by Whitemax on 03-07-2001 at 01:12 PM]

 

(Trying not to be a talkative scphinter....)
On the whole stereo vs 4 channel vs surround

The vast majority of music recordings were/are recorded in stereo, for the 2 channel L/R format. Putting this music on a surround system (and letting it add crappy DSP effects) makes it sound like ***. People who play stereo music on their Bose Acoustiass (notice no 'm') and rave about the sound quality are deluding themselves.

Movies are recorded in surround because a movie isn't trying to reproduce a concert (in which music does primarily come from in front of you) it's trying to reproduce a life like experience with sounds from all angles.

In a Dolby Digital OR DTS surround system the wattage is supposed to be EQUAL to ALL channels. Period. The older Dolby Pro Logic systems skimped on rear power, and the rears were mono anyway. The digital formats require the ability to produce the same sound from any channel at the same volume. More emphasis is being put on providing real surround effects rather than just ambient noise back there.

In cars I fade the rear so that it's ambient, but doesn't interfere. A car presents a difficult environment to get good staging, imaging, and detail. That's why it's my 3rd system, after the Stereo and Home Theater.

 

Hmm...Maybe I should tell you my preferences and future upgrades then since that obviously makes a difference. This will probably be a one time stereo upgrade. I'm gonna put mobile multimedia in my next car. I'm just looking to upgrade the head unit and the speakers and get an amp if that will help with sound quality - not sound quantity. I assume that and all around good system needs some bass, so upgrading the rears will probably be needed. Will I need to a a bit of custom cutting on the back shelf to make 6x9's fit? Then will a 4 channel amp be sufficient to power the rears and fronts. I can't remember but won't a good set of rears be running 110+ watts, and maybe 70+ wat ts in the front? So like a 400-500W amp would be needed? That's about all i'm looking to do. Mabye a CD change in the trunk also. Pretty simple IMO. Now can you better recommend how I should go about setting this up?

Thanks

-Nick

 

Sounds good. 100 watts for the rears would be good for boosting bass, 75 watts or so would be about right for the fronts...
I would still recommend getting either a dual cone or 2 -way 6x9 for the rear, since the main thing you want from them is bass....
Not sure though let me find out what my *** thinks! LOL

 

So will 6x9 won't be a direct fit?

 

No it is not. Not a major ordeal to cut out a hole to fit it in, but it doesn't just drop in. If you need bass more than anything else from the rear speakers, You might want to consider Kicker's 6 1\2" or 6x9 freeair subs . Just another of many options....

 

In response to your comment about music being recorded in stereo, I don't know what kind of music you listen to, but majority of your music is recorded in surround. As for the rest of the convo, from what I have seen you want to replace your factory speakers. They are made of cheap paper cones. They reproduce sound horrible. Replace you won't be upset.

 

Well the next logical question would be some examples of good components for this setup. If price were not an issue, what would be a good cd player head unit, speakers and amp.

 

Well, price no object, for speakers Dynaudio, Focal, CDTechnologies. I've heard all 3 and I prefer Dyna's for their open dynamic sound, with incredable imaging. I still like Clarion, and Eclipse is great too. I've owned both. For amps, I still swear by Tube Drivers, sound is mind blowing. Unless you hear them, you can't imagine. ( Of course, some again could say I'm talking out of my *** but people tell me I'm a SMART ***, ) Other great amps, are PPI, Genesis,Phoenix Gold, to name a few. If you want more informed answers and opinions, talk to Peter Lufrano at http://www.theautophile.com . Very knowagable, and ery, very helpful