Well, I'm considering selling my system, or at least all my Sony ES Components.
My CDX-910 Deck, U50D Digital Signal Processor, MiniDisc Changer, and CD Changer.

I'm thinking about going more simple and just buyng a Kenwood Z828 MP3 Deck with a Changer.

Is the Kenwood going to sound anything like the Sony?
I know the Sony deck is legendary, but it's 4 years old, and I'm sick of not being able to see the display.

I also think less current draw (components) in my system may help in the long run. I also figure I can sell all these components and buy the new Kenwood deck and changer for basically "free".

Quad 1-bit D/A Converters (Kenwood)
or
Dual 20-bit Burr-Brown Converters (Sony)

That is the question.

Thanks!

 

i've never favored sony car audio products, so i would hafta say good thing you're getting rid of it.. i've had great experiences with kenwood decks amoungst many other brands.. what you plan to do sound great to me..

 

Yes, I agree that 99% of Sony's equipment isn't that good....but the CDX-910 and CDX-90 are $1200 dollar decks that have pretty much the best internal mechanics (DA Converters, Copper Chassis, etc...) of any other deck made.

Which is what makes it so hard to let go of......

They've won many IASCA Comps...but the display is plain, there's too many components to hook up just to get any kind of crossover function, no pause button, etc....

So it's lower quality (which may not be at all noticable, and is why I'm asking) for better features/looks.....

Anyone out there own a Z828 or the older Z919...(besides you, ebmorgan)

Anyway, I'm heading out of town, so I'll re-check this on Monday.

 

I've sold the Kenwood Z series MP3 players to my customers and are very satisfied with it...if you are looking at a top of the line cd player with copper plated chassis, 16 volt preamp section, 3 year warranty, etc look at the Eclipse CD8061 it lists for $999.00 www.eclipse-web.com

Maximadave

 

My wife had a Kenwood Headunit earlier this year. It worked for nearly 6 months before 2 of the RCA outs burnt out. One of the front channels and oposite side on the rear channel. The only thing Kenwood I have owned was a pair of speakers about 12 years ago. They lasted almost 10 minutes. Some of the Sony stuff, like what you have, is really good stuff. I know what you mean about not being able to read the display because I have the same problem with my Sony ES deck. If your system is still functioning properly I wouldn't replace it with one of lower quality. Amongst other things you will lose your rotary volume by switching to Kenwood. That's my number one reason not to buy Kenwood. And they cost way more for the same or less features/capabilities.

 

That's the rub. The Sony is a Reference unit, and is made for pure fidelity, and is impossible to read and hard to control. I hate the rotary volume. It's too easy to slip on.

Plus, by putting less components in line (DSP) to my amps, the Kenwood may sound quite a bit better. Add-ons cause noise and suck power from the system. To use the full features of the Sony, you need a DSP, which causes problems of it's own. Besides, I already have a 31-band PG EQ, which does all the tuning I need.

The Kenwood deck has many, many more features than the Sony with the DSP....It plays MP3's, has Q Control for all ranges (low, mid, high), built in crosover, 4 stage settings, A PAUSE BUTTON (I hate that about SOny) etc....

But as far as the technical sound quality goes (which is most likely only noticable to a RTA meter) the Sony is probably better.

But I could be wrong, and the quality difference in the D/A converters could be noticable....so that's why I'm asking you all.

I know that the Kenwood middle-of the road stuff (much like Sony XPlod) sucks.....but this is the Excelon series, which I haven't heard much about, except a few raving reviews.

Damn it's hard to decide.....new, more extravagantly featured stuff, or old, hard to see, less featured, higher quality stuff?

As you can tell, I'm leaning towards the Kenwood....but I do LOVE the sound quality of my Sony, and I will be VERY pis*ed if the Kenwood doesn't at least match it, which is why I posted this thread.

 

Hey, if you are willing to give up the convenience of a rotary volume, ya know, 'swish' and it's right where you want it. It sounds like the middle of the road is where you really want to be.

 

I don't like the rotary because it's not precise. I roll it over and it either doesn't go enough, or goes to little, and I almost get in a wreck trying to see the display on the thing.

Besides, the Kenwood deck has a SH*tload more features than just a rotary.

I also don't like the fact that the Sony face is mechanic, because It will eventually break.

What I do like on the SOny is the sound quality, and that's really about it.

And I'm not looking for middle of the road, I'm looking for as good sound quality with a mix of good ergonomics/display/features.

I don't want to comprimise any of these things any more in favor of a greater portion of one.
The Sony, while it does sound superb, is old. The new Sony has nothing new on it, and the face is still hard to see.....

So I guess what I'm really asking is:

"How is the sound quality on the Excelon Series decks"

 

Go with Eclipse!

 

I don't know about that 'eventually'. I had an Alpine with a hell of a lot more than volume on the ****. It lasted over ten years and the **** never broke.

 

When I said "eventually", I meant the flip-down face.

 

OK...I did some research.

CD's inherently play at 90db Signal to Noise ratio, same with MiniDisc....pretty much any deck over this will not be able to play at the advertised ratio, (105db on the CDX-C910), unless the CD is especially well mastered.

Some CD's, such as the IASCA Competition CD, are mastered at a higher and better S/N Ratio, of 100-105db. But I don't listen to that CD unless I'm tuning.

In addition, my system goes once from digital to Analog when either using the MD or Head Unit, but when using my changer, is converted from Digital to Analog by the Changer, then Analog to Digital at the DSP, then back to Analog for the PPI Amps....generally, it drops the 95db S/N ratio from the Changer (not as high quality as the deck) to 85 or so DB. This is why my changer has never sounded as good as my deck.

Then I found out by doing some more research that unless you have superhuan ears, anything over 90Db is completely undetectable to the human ear. The only thing that is going to be able to detect it is an RTA at an audio competition.

And I'm retiring from competition.

The Kenwood has a Maximum S/N Ratio of 96db, which is still well above the industry average, and a darned nice deck.

So maybe I do want the "middle-of-the-road", as I'm done with competing, if that's what one wants to call it. But from what I know now, the Excelon series is nothing to laugh at, and every local Stereo store in the Seattle area has dropped Mobil ES equipment because of their unreasonable demands for resellers. This worries me also.

Kenwood Exceleon is by FAR outselling Mobile ES now days...even with comparable pricing.

Anyway, if what I've researched is correct, I won't audibly know the difference, and I'll get a deck which is much easier to see, has more features, and a new warranty.

I also found out that the Z828 plays MP3's up to 512KHz in quality....also undetectable to the human ear from a CD. (128KHz is very noticable, and is why some people say MP3's aren't as good as CD's) If I record to MP3 correctly, it should still sound great....and who needs a Changer then?

Yup, I'm selling the Sony CDX-C910, the Changer, the DSP, and the MiniDisc.

If anyone wants to buy them, they will be on E-Bay in a day or two.

Thanks for all the info.

 

The reasons youmention are all good. I personally hate volume buttons. Find the button, push the button, listen to beep, hold the button, more beeps. Too many steps. I like the spin to where you want it ease of the ****. If I want to use a button I just pick up the remote. The only time I need to look at the face is almost never. If what you say abou the lower compression ratio is true then that is a good option. I have never seen MP3 files with an optional longer download. And all the MP3's I have heard that I also have the option of the CD, the CD does noticably sound better. Maybe I have picky ears above 10khz. Also, you can preserve the higher signal to noise ratio with the changer by useing the digital out. That way it will only go D to A one time.

 

1)My Cd Changer is not Optical

2)Higher bit-rate MP3's (over 265KHz) are CD Quality. I'd be willing to bet you money that you couldn't tell the difference. Most people (Napster) record only in 128, because it's a smaller file download, so most of what you get on the net is lower quality than a CD.

3)I like buttons...let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

4)I have access to an RTA meter. With the Sony, I could score a 37/40 (noone ever gets 40) on the RTA Scoring system. I'll run the RTA tests when I get the new deck and post the results. I'm betting I will probably only drop 1-2 points....and 35/40 on an RTA is still a really good score. Better than pretty much any novice with Infinity and MTX. (grin) My PPI Amps are amazing quality, and the Kenwood is a high quality deck.

5)Because of the DSP on the Sony, I spend alot of time looking at the deck to get just the right sound for different types of music. The deck is so clear (I do love the deck, don't get me wrong) that I have to constantly tune for different quality CD's and types of music.

I'm just trying to simlify my system. I'm also wondering how much having all the components (MD Changer, EQ, CD Changer, DSP) drawing power takes down my sound stage. I use 4 guage power to all my components, but once you go over 3 components in line, you can have noise problems, even if your ear can't actually hear them.

I will let everyone know how this Kenwood scores with both opinion and factual data.

IanS

 

I've seen 40, my buddy did it at a competition. You don't see them that often because in real life, listening to a car that RTA'd 40 usually doesn't sound that good to the ears, therefore most people have to tune between the RTA and Judging portion of the competition. There are also a host of other reasons why 40 is hard to achieve that I'm sure you already know about, but with that PG, after a coupla runs, you should be able to hit 40 without a problem.

 

I agree, to each his own. But the 40 from what I have heard is quite easy at least to get within one or two. You need to be disciplined about your crossover and EQ settings. You need a digital EQ with memory. That way you can tune it at home for RTA and save the settings. That's why I love my Symmetry. Enough memory to save I think 16 different EQ curves, and 16 bands. Iasca uses 30 bands to measure RTA but with the built in crossover you should sure as hell get a 39 minimum. Then just push a diferent EQ preset for the SQ lanes, when you are done hit the one for the settings you like on the CD that you have in when you drive home.

 

If those are the features youre looking for, I recommend you go to ebay and pickup a Pioneer P1R. This is my favorite deck on the market and yes I have it. The control it gives you over your entire system is simply incredible. I highly recommed you check it out. Also, if you ever feel like selling your kick panels, let me know
Anton

 

The Kenwood is now installed....

It took me all day to remove the Fiber/Unilink connections and the MD/CD Changers and the DSP, and get the Kenwood in.

And although I can't quite exlain it, the Kenwood sounds FAR better than the Sony did, although less accurate. I was discussing this with ebmorgan, and we concluded that the Sony deck was so "perfect", that the music sounded seperated and not well blended because of the flawless reproduction of frequencies.

I don't know what it is really, but I like it! Basically, the Kenwood is very "warm".

And this deck is simply amazing....reads MP3's fast and well, plays CD's perfectly off of any CDR Format, and most of all, sounds VERY good.

And SWEETSOUND20001, You're never getting those Kicks back....they kick too much as* for me to ever give up....
OK, maybe in 4 years when the loan on my Max is paid off and I buy a new one.

But if you'd like to see pictures:

http://www.cyberhub.net/maxpics.htm

Pics of my new deck coming soon.

Thanks for all the advice you all gave!!!

 

Hey Anton. Do you need some new kicks? I thought you had that covered for your car? Email your needs to my address. I can't promise faster than 30 days turnaround on my current schedule, but I am very familiar with the car.

 

You will make kicke for the max? How much? Make them for 5sp? Accomodate 6 1/2" components? Lemme know, joel@bigham.com.

 

I just realized, after reading my previous post, that I was pretty harsh on sweetsound2001 about the kickpanels.

It was completely in jest.

I was just expressing how much I love them.

Apologies, sweetsound2001.

 

I understood what you were saying. I just didn't know hey never made new kicks for his a/d/s components. And thought he had sold the Focals. Now I am wondering if Zalytron still has that great deal on the W series, Utopia. I still haven't heard them. I can build kicks. And the 4th gen I use as a model is a five speed. But I will only build one set at a time. Sweetsound's or mine are next. When you see info posted about how they sound then you can ask me if I have time for another pair.

 

Hey J, lt's get the ball rolling here with the kicks. Zalytron has 10 pairs of those 180w sets left at $465. After that they go up to about $700 which is dealer cost.
You really can't beat $465 shipped.

anton

 

Yah, you had to wait until I opened my second Anchor Steam to say that. I also need the screw hole diameter. I always try to use good looking as well as high quality hardward including threaded inserts. Do the screws sit recessed in the basket or on the surface?