Yesterday was the first time i ever got to test out my big brake kit. It's 12.75x1.2 inch one piece slotted rotor with Wilwood 4 piston superlite Caliper from Precision Brakes. I was using Hawk HP+ pads. I have powerslot rotors, SS lines and Porterfield pads in the rear.

Before this front set up I had Poterfield pads w/. SS lines on stock rotors and Calipers. That set up was ok and i would experience significant fade on the track.

I was a little surprised with the big brake kit. Going in I thought that i would probably experience no fade as the size of the rotors should be able to absorb and dissapate heat really well. Well that definitely doesn't seem to be the case. It was definitely better than before, but it was no where close to what i had expected. I experienced a lot of fade. To the extent that i would have to stomp on the pedal and the brakes would work, but the pedal would feel really spongy. The fluid was just 2 months old, so it wasn't that bad. Could it be that the pads I was using may not be best.

I should at least say that they are an improvement over my previous set up. Before i would have to brake way early. Now i could wait and stomp on the brakes a little later then before. The brakes were defintely in a better shape than before for the drive home too. However, the performance was not really what i was expecting...were my expectations way too high as i was expecting slight to no fade.

I would greatly appreciate any input. Should I try a different set of pads and see if those work any better? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Also, MAXRPM, I believe u've been to Mosports with ur Stillen BBK, can u please let me know what pads u use and what ur thoughts are...thanks

 

Update: I spoke with Precision Brakes Company and it seems that the Hawk HP+ I was using are more intended for Street and Auto-X rather than endurance racing. My rep talked to Wilwood and they suggested I try Wilwood Polymatrix compound J. They believe this will cause slight to no fade at the track. I'm going to try this set up next year as i'm done for this year.

 

IIRC maxrpm runs hawk HP+ at mosport, that course is not that hard on brakes, I've rode with him once.. it was awsome chasing supras in corners

I think you should PM him, he doesn't check this forum.

 

"Spongy" sounds like a brake fluid problem to me. I buy my fluid in small cans to minimize moisture absorption and bleed my brakes before & after every event.

 

Thanks for the feed back guys! i'll PM MAXRPM

 

Hmm...haven't taken my hp+ to the track yet. My friend PT who took his Altima to the track at least once a month did well w/his HP+. He had Valvoline DOT4 synth, stock rotors, and HP+ pads in front, drums in rear. Never experienced fade or sponge.

Perhaps it's your driving style? Try braking differently. Did you bed them correctly?

J compound sounds like race compound...sounds expensive too...and not something u want eating your rotors away for daily driving.

BTW, my HP+ dust like crazy.

Jae

 

For a track pad, I highly suggest you try some of Wilwood's different compounds.

When I originally built the BBK on my car (skyline R32-GTR rotors, wilwood dynalite calipers), I used Hawk HPS pads. horrid fade on anything other than street driving, and they dusted like mad. Also ate into the rotors quite a bit.

After that, I switched to Wilwood D compound on the street. MUCH MUCH better. higher friction compound, so I had to use less pedal pressure to stop, and there was little to no fade on the street- even with insane street driving that should only have been done on the track.

Those only lasted me about 5-6 weeks on the street, so when they wore out I bought a set of Hawk Black pads. NEVER use them on a street car. completely ruined my rotors in three days, and ate most of the pad material off also. I don't know why people can use these on the track- they took more metal off the rotors than they did pad material. my 1.25" thick rotors were 1.02" thick after I had the machine shop grind them smooth just so I could stick my hawk HPS pads back on them until I could buy some new wilwood pads.


After a couple months of using the D compound pads on the street, I called up wilwood to try to get recommendations on something that would last longer. They recommended their new Q compound for street use.. it's a ceramic compound and offers minimal dusting and pad wear. temp/fade resistance is slightly better than the hawk HPS, and dust is almost nil. these pads last about 10 months on the car for a set now, and I don't even have to turn the rotors when I get new ones. just drop the new pads in and go.


In the meantime of learning all this stuff, I've switched to coleman 13" x 1.25" rotors and gone with a 2-piece type. HUGE improvement over the skyline rotors. most of it is the better metal they use. if it's cast iron like the nissan rotors, they've done a LOT of heat-treating to them to harden them and make them stand up to the heat better. If you're using a 2-piece rotor from the Fastbrakes kit, you've got coleman rotors, just a different size and wall thickness than mine...


Back to pads..... For the track, I use the D compound for auto X days and E compound for road courses. I ran at Hallett Raceway near Tulsa, OK this summer with the 13" rotors and E compound pads. It was about 105F in the shade, and hotter on the track.. This course is EXTREMELY heavy on brakes and noted as one of the most technically difficult tracks in the country. I only noticed a small bit of mushy pedal at the end of a couple of my 15 minute sessions, but by that time almost everyone was- even M3s with huge 14" Brembo conversions.

go to wilwood's site and read up on their pad compounds for more info on them. I'm extremely happy with them, and so are my rotors. almost zero rotor wear when I'm using their track compound pads, and brake fade is basically nonexistant.

 

Thanks for the feed back guys!

Jae- I brake hard and late when the brakes are working fine and then have to back off when they start to fade. The pads were bedded. They had about 500 miles on them before the track.

Matt- I'm actually using the Q compound for street use. I switched from HP+ to Q as the HP+ have a very nasty, high pitched squeal for street use. I'm very satisfied with the Q compound for street use and i've not experienced any fade on the street even after some hard braking. Anyway, I checked with my rep at Precision and he spoke with Wilwood. They recommened the J compound and said they were pretty sure that I should not experience any fade with those. I'll try those next year as I'm done racing for this year. The tracks close in October here in MI. I'm surprised that the Es held up in such high temps and i'll check with my rep before i get the new pads. I have a feeling that your car may be lighter than mine and that may help too. I think mine may be close to 3400lbs (it's a 2K1 5spd)

Also, the precision brake kit I have is 12.75x1.2 1 pc rotor w/. Wilwood 4 piston Superlite Caliper. I had the rotor cryo treated as well. I believe they are Powerstop rotors.

I have the porterfield 4RS (I think that's the name, but could be wrong) and Power slot rotors in the back. The porterfield actually dust more than the HP+.

 

Yup. I've got Porterfield R4S in the back also.. OEM Z31 rotors with them. they dust worse than my Wilwood Qs, but not as bad as the D or E.

 

After speaking with the guys at carbotech about my brake pad options I opted to stick with HP+ with my 13" brakes. I had used HP+ with stock rotors at the track before and they didn't cut it, I needed more brake. Now, with street tires they are doing well at the track. When I get R compounds I will be getting more aggressive but I decided HP+ with the large brakes (read more cooling capacity and greater brake torque applied due to larger moment arm) for street tire use.