ATTN If you own or are interested in Place Racing motor mounts
I did more research on the Jethot coating.
Jethot coating releases heat and cools the pipes quicker (keeping them cooler than a pipe without it) so the headers really didn't cause this. Personally, I feel this problem is a design flaw with the mounts.
Jethot coating releases heat and cools the pipes quicker (keeping them cooler than a pipe without it) so the headers really didn't cause this. Personally, I feel this problem is a design flaw with the mounts.
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Cattman sent me an email Fri and basically he copy and pasted what he intended to respond so I will paste it here.
You have misinterpreted what I wrote to you. Here are the exact words I sent in your email:
Place Racing provided a "lifetime" warranty on its motor mounts but two problems have arisen. One, Place Racing's "lifetime" as a performance parts producer has come to an end - they are out of business (we're selling off their CAI inventory now as a result), and two, it is possible that the headers produce too much heat for the cast material in the mounts. This means that the warranty service is no longer available, and even if they were replaced, its possible the same thing would occur again.
The only alternative I know of would be to try Energy Suspension's new motor mount inserts, which have just been released. We are promoting right now through an introductory sale, the price is $79.95. I expect to have my first inventory of these new parts from ES by next Monday. If that's what you choose to do, you can call your order into 520.730.9309, 9-6 MST, M-F.
My point is not to turn your problems with the PR mounts into a sale opportunity for us, but to suggest what appears to be the only viable alternative to going back to stock mounts. FWIW, these are probably better mounts than the PR version, I'm told that there is far less vibration transmitted through the chassis.
I'm sorry if I was not clear, but dominant issue here is that Place Racing no longer exists to provide warranty service. That said, yours is the second set of mounts I've seen that seem to be affected by the heat put off by the headers, so I was also making the point that even if they could be repaired, the problem would repeat itself (but I've had some additional thoughts on that, see below).
I sent a thorough and honest reply to your question. You didn't write back for clarification or have anything else to say to me about it, but your next move was to go on the org to accuse Cattman Performance of causing problems for you and trying to shake you down for a sale.
Your comments about my company are not fair. There are two factors here that are beyond our control, 1) that PR has gone out of business and cannot provide any warranty service, and 2) that the urethane material they used seems to heat up too much with the headers. The motor mounts were developed years before the headers existed and there was no way to foresee the effect of the one product on the other. I feel badly about the situation you're in, and I'm trying to offer the best solution that seems available.
The best I can do to solve your problem is offer you a deal on the ES bushings - I'll sell them to you at my cost, given your situation. I'm not offering to do this because you went to the forum. If you'd written back and asked to get them at cost, I would have agreed because its just the right thing to do, it just didn't occur to me earlier. If you want to pursue that, get back to me by email, but I don't see another solution. Our warranty policy matches most companies in this business - unless its our brand of part, warranty support is the responsibility of the company that makes the parts. But if the company goes out of business, there's no way that we can step in with the capabilities, knowledge or resources required to solve the problem.
For those with Place Racing motor mounts and headers (or who are considering headers) the problem can likely be prevented by putting some reflective heat shielding around the urethane portion of the mounts.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Place Racing provided a "lifetime" warranty on its motor mounts but two problems have arisen. One, Place Racing's "lifetime" as a performance parts producer has come to an end - they are out of business (we're selling off their CAI inventory now as a result), and two, it is possible that the headers produce too much heat for the cast material in the mounts. This means that the warranty service is no longer available, and even if they were replaced, its possible the same thing would occur again.
The only alternative I know of would be to try Energy Suspension's new motor mount inserts, which have just been released. We are promoting right now through an introductory sale, the price is $79.95. I expect to have my first inventory of these new parts from ES by next Monday. If that's what you choose to do, you can call your order into 520.730.9309, 9-6 MST, M-F.
My point is not to turn your problems with the PR mounts into a sale opportunity for us, but to suggest what appears to be the only viable alternative to going back to stock mounts. FWIW, these are probably better mounts than the PR version, I'm told that there is far less vibration transmitted through the chassis.
I'm sorry if I was not clear, but dominant issue here is that Place Racing no longer exists to provide warranty service. That said, yours is the second set of mounts I've seen that seem to be affected by the heat put off by the headers, so I was also making the point that even if they could be repaired, the problem would repeat itself (but I've had some additional thoughts on that, see below).
I sent a thorough and honest reply to your question. You didn't write back for clarification or have anything else to say to me about it, but your next move was to go on the org to accuse Cattman Performance of causing problems for you and trying to shake you down for a sale.
Your comments about my company are not fair. There are two factors here that are beyond our control, 1) that PR has gone out of business and cannot provide any warranty service, and 2) that the urethane material they used seems to heat up too much with the headers. The motor mounts were developed years before the headers existed and there was no way to foresee the effect of the one product on the other. I feel badly about the situation you're in, and I'm trying to offer the best solution that seems available.
The best I can do to solve your problem is offer you a deal on the ES bushings - I'll sell them to you at my cost, given your situation. I'm not offering to do this because you went to the forum. If you'd written back and asked to get them at cost, I would have agreed because its just the right thing to do, it just didn't occur to me earlier. If you want to pursue that, get back to me by email, but I don't see another solution. Our warranty policy matches most companies in this business - unless its our brand of part, warranty support is the responsibility of the company that makes the parts. But if the company goes out of business, there's no way that we can step in with the capabilities, knowledge or resources required to solve the problem.
For those with Place Racing motor mounts and headers (or who are considering headers) the problem can likely be prevented by putting some reflective heat shielding around the urethane portion of the mounts.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Cattman should just hand over a set of ES mounts, in exchange for the messed up PR mounts. Done deal!
cattman has no control over the PR mounts..that's correct. he's just the middle man selling a product made by someone else. why should cattman take a loss from a product that was made by someone else? for good PR or for helping him out he can give them to vee for free...but i doubt cattman would be willing to go that route. he's not going to take a loss...he'll sell it for a break even but i know brian won't sell it at a loss.
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I emailed you re: failure of my mounts.
You tell me PR ceased to exist but since the mounts were possibly exposed to higher temps the warranty is no longer available.
I checked your warranty disclaimer. Its the customer's responsibility to contact the manufacturer. They are supposedly no longer in business.
However...
You are conducting a group deal on PLACE RACING intakes. They are still providing these intakes because they need you to liquidate them.
They are still in operation in one way shape/form as "Place Racing" because you are doing business with them to help sell the remaining intake they have.
Here you are announcing to the CAI purchasers that you spoke to the owner of "Place Racing", which apparently doesn't exist anymore.
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=536
also...
Here in this thread you tell others that you go "way back" and that they are going out of business.
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=161
If you knew Place Racing "is getting out of the automotive parts business" about a month ago, then why is it that on your website you continue to advertise these Place Racing motor mounts as having an "Lifetime unconditional guarantee by Place Racing" even though said company is no longer in business to handle any warranty issues whatsoever? Did the company conveniently cease to operate right before I sent you my email?
You couldn't have swapped my defective mounts for your new ones in stock and send those back to your chummy pal to rebuild? Surely he would still be in possession of the mount jigs to mold the urethane mounts. Who's in the market to buy his jig? Of course this is all speculation on my part on what he's capable of but what is clear is you are still in contact with the owner of "Place Racing". For a guy who you go way back he wouldn't do you this favor? Well if his company is defunct what's the point of salvaging a tarnished name anyway right?
Since you go way back with Place Racing you could not contact your friend on my behalf? Their phone number listed on their website is disconnected but you are obviously in contact with them. He's still providing you "Place Racing" intakes!
Just because you have a disclaimer it absolves you of standing behind what you sell? YOU ARE STILL SELLING THE SAME MOUNTS THAT FAILED ON ME WITH "LIFETIME UNCONDITIONAL WARRANTY"!
If you continue to advertise "lifetime unconditional guarantee" through the original manufacturer even though the manufacturer is defunct then guess what? YOU become the guarantor and are responsible for providing the warranty coverage.
In no way did I misrepresent what I wrote.
FACT: My mounts melted and I requested a remedy from you.
FACT: you mentioned the closure of Place racing however you also mentioned excessive heat as reasons no warranty is available for my mounts.
FACT: you are still selling these mounts on your website with "Lifetime unconditional guarantee".
FACT: You mentioned to me your ongoing ES bushing sale with no offer to sell them at cost to minimize my loss.
When seeking a remedy to my issue I do not consider the candor in your tone or the symantics. All I care about is the bottom line. I am stuck with defective $260 mounts that failed after several months of use. It can be a manufacturing defect. You did see the post by E55AMG2 correct? He owns PR mounts and Hotshot headers. He reports no deformities in his mount. Imagine that. You were quick to dismiss my problem. You read my post so you know I don't treat business transactions as parent- child relationships. However I am a reasonable man. I understand as a business owner you have to minimize loss. But losses are part of doing business. Honestly my post would never have surfaced if you did the right thing. You've been in business for years. I find it comical that it did not cross your mind to offer those ES mounts to me at your cost. At that point you wouldve have incurred no loss, and I would probably be PRAISING you right now. Any way in your part to minimize my loss would've been acceptable to me. But you didn't. You set it up to make more $ off me or put the ball in my court to beg for it. When you offer no solutions other than to buy your ES mounts at those "introductory" prices it is essentially telling me to get bent with my defective $260 mounts because you offered no real help to minimize my loss. I guess I didn't deserve it because you have your disclaimer on your website. Then again you're continuing to sell the same mounts with BS "limetime warranty"
You think I'm unfair? You obviously don'tknow me. Here's something I never mentioned before until now.
I had your headers installed by a mechanic during my engine swap. I have your version 2 headers in which the downpipe/flexpipe were redesigned and are no longer the same color as the headers themself. The headers were bolted onto the heads. When the downpipe flange mated with one of the header flange it caused the other header flange to be off by more than 1/2 inch. The mechanic had to heat the pipe with a torch and bend it to allow both header flanges to mate. My mechanic took his time to carefully bend it to fit, and it only cost me 45 minutes of delay- not several days of more downtime to seek a replacement from you. I was certain you wouldn't be paying for my rental car for the extra days of downtime anyway. My mechanic took the pics of the ordeal and is still in possession of it. He has worked and continues to work on many Maximas for Maxima.org members. I did a search on the forums for any header quality issues and noticed that there were members who purchased your headers around the same time but did not have my pipe problem. Imagine what would have happened if your "direct bolt-on" header quality was put into question...I judged my situation to be an anomaly, so I did not post my experience for fear it may affect your header sales. I also factored in our email correspondence when you mentioned how small the profits were due to the declining US dollar and how expensive it was to import them from NZ. Again, I figured I was the only one with this problem so who needs to cause a ruckus. If someone did have the same problem and made a post about it then I would have certainly chimed in. But it never happened. However if I ever decide to part my car and sell these headers, I have to disclose the corrected defect to the purchaser. They're going to obviously see a difference in color because of the new paint on the torched portion. Guess what happens to the resale value of my set when there are two seemingly identical header sets for sale and one set was altered due to fitment issues? I'm going to absorb that later, not you. You think I'm unfair? You don't know me.
I am going off on a tangent. Going back to your response to my email. Your attempt to profit off me through a sale of your new mounts is a slap in my face, and that's what pissed me off. I'm left hanging to dry with these defective $260 mounts used for a few months. Who knows what your actual costs are for these Place Racing mounts but its no way going to be $260 like mine. I will probably commission someone to rebuild these mounts while I purchase ES mounts from a different vendor for the time being so these Place Racing mounting brackets wont go to waste. So I'm going to incur even more costs. Who gets to absorb the loss of these defective mounts when the seller says the manufacturer no longer exists YET still sells the same mounts advertise with the blatantly BS "Lifetime Unconditional Warranty" ? Me.
Naturally as a consumer I would like the best possible deal on prices. However I value service above all else. I will certainly pay more if necessary. That's why I mentioned the story about the JWT ecu. I wanted to save a few bucks through your company but I couldn't even get a callback after calling you guys back to remind your order taking staff that I am awaiting info you guys were suppose to obtain. So I said **** it spend the extra $35+ direct through JWT and get it over with.
A simple solution would be to sell your new mounts at your cost to me so it costs you nothing and minimizes my loss. But it didn't cross your mind.
If you cannot see it from my prospective then I hope that you have continued success with absolutely no product failures because when they arise you certainly cannot handle them accordingly. No, I dont want to buy your mounts at your cost. You shouldve thought of that when you first responded to my email. Thanks for thinking of my misfortune when all you saw was dollar signs. I'm never going to place an order with your company again.
Do everyone a favor and take that bullsh!t " Lifetime unconditional guarantee by Place Racing" off your website. If it doesnt exist effective 1 month ago so why continue to advertise it?
You tell me PR ceased to exist but since the mounts were possibly exposed to higher temps the warranty is no longer available.
I checked your warranty disclaimer. Its the customer's responsibility to contact the manufacturer. They are supposedly no longer in business.
However...
You are conducting a group deal on PLACE RACING intakes. They are still providing these intakes because they need you to liquidate them.
They are still in operation in one way shape/form as "Place Racing" because you are doing business with them to help sell the remaining intake they have.
Here you are announcing to the CAI purchasers that you spoke to the owner of "Place Racing", which apparently doesn't exist anymore.
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=536
also...
Here in this thread you tell others that you go "way back" and that they are going out of business.
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=161
If you knew Place Racing "is getting out of the automotive parts business" about a month ago, then why is it that on your website you continue to advertise these Place Racing motor mounts as having an "Lifetime unconditional guarantee by Place Racing" even though said company is no longer in business to handle any warranty issues whatsoever? Did the company conveniently cease to operate right before I sent you my email?
You couldn't have swapped my defective mounts for your new ones in stock and send those back to your chummy pal to rebuild? Surely he would still be in possession of the mount jigs to mold the urethane mounts. Who's in the market to buy his jig? Of course this is all speculation on my part on what he's capable of but what is clear is you are still in contact with the owner of "Place Racing". For a guy who you go way back he wouldn't do you this favor? Well if his company is defunct what's the point of salvaging a tarnished name anyway right?
Since you go way back with Place Racing you could not contact your friend on my behalf? Their phone number listed on their website is disconnected but you are obviously in contact with them. He's still providing you "Place Racing" intakes!
Just because you have a disclaimer it absolves you of standing behind what you sell? YOU ARE STILL SELLING THE SAME MOUNTS THAT FAILED ON ME WITH "LIFETIME UNCONDITIONAL WARRANTY"!
If you continue to advertise "lifetime unconditional guarantee" through the original manufacturer even though the manufacturer is defunct then guess what? YOU become the guarantor and are responsible for providing the warranty coverage.
In no way did I misrepresent what I wrote.
FACT: My mounts melted and I requested a remedy from you.
FACT: you mentioned the closure of Place racing however you also mentioned excessive heat as reasons no warranty is available for my mounts.
FACT: you are still selling these mounts on your website with "Lifetime unconditional guarantee".
FACT: You mentioned to me your ongoing ES bushing sale with no offer to sell them at cost to minimize my loss.
When seeking a remedy to my issue I do not consider the candor in your tone or the symantics. All I care about is the bottom line. I am stuck with defective $260 mounts that failed after several months of use. It can be a manufacturing defect. You did see the post by E55AMG2 correct? He owns PR mounts and Hotshot headers. He reports no deformities in his mount. Imagine that. You were quick to dismiss my problem. You read my post so you know I don't treat business transactions as parent- child relationships. However I am a reasonable man. I understand as a business owner you have to minimize loss. But losses are part of doing business. Honestly my post would never have surfaced if you did the right thing. You've been in business for years. I find it comical that it did not cross your mind to offer those ES mounts to me at your cost. At that point you wouldve have incurred no loss, and I would probably be PRAISING you right now. Any way in your part to minimize my loss would've been acceptable to me. But you didn't. You set it up to make more $ off me or put the ball in my court to beg for it. When you offer no solutions other than to buy your ES mounts at those "introductory" prices it is essentially telling me to get bent with my defective $260 mounts because you offered no real help to minimize my loss. I guess I didn't deserve it because you have your disclaimer on your website. Then again you're continuing to sell the same mounts with BS "limetime warranty"
You think I'm unfair? You obviously don'tknow me. Here's something I never mentioned before until now.
I had your headers installed by a mechanic during my engine swap. I have your version 2 headers in which the downpipe/flexpipe were redesigned and are no longer the same color as the headers themself. The headers were bolted onto the heads. When the downpipe flange mated with one of the header flange it caused the other header flange to be off by more than 1/2 inch. The mechanic had to heat the pipe with a torch and bend it to allow both header flanges to mate. My mechanic took his time to carefully bend it to fit, and it only cost me 45 minutes of delay- not several days of more downtime to seek a replacement from you. I was certain you wouldn't be paying for my rental car for the extra days of downtime anyway. My mechanic took the pics of the ordeal and is still in possession of it. He has worked and continues to work on many Maximas for Maxima.org members. I did a search on the forums for any header quality issues and noticed that there were members who purchased your headers around the same time but did not have my pipe problem. Imagine what would have happened if your "direct bolt-on" header quality was put into question...I judged my situation to be an anomaly, so I did not post my experience for fear it may affect your header sales. I also factored in our email correspondence when you mentioned how small the profits were due to the declining US dollar and how expensive it was to import them from NZ. Again, I figured I was the only one with this problem so who needs to cause a ruckus. If someone did have the same problem and made a post about it then I would have certainly chimed in. But it never happened. However if I ever decide to part my car and sell these headers, I have to disclose the corrected defect to the purchaser. They're going to obviously see a difference in color because of the new paint on the torched portion. Guess what happens to the resale value of my set when there are two seemingly identical header sets for sale and one set was altered due to fitment issues? I'm going to absorb that later, not you. You think I'm unfair? You don't know me.
I am going off on a tangent. Going back to your response to my email. Your attempt to profit off me through a sale of your new mounts is a slap in my face, and that's what pissed me off. I'm left hanging to dry with these defective $260 mounts used for a few months. Who knows what your actual costs are for these Place Racing mounts but its no way going to be $260 like mine. I will probably commission someone to rebuild these mounts while I purchase ES mounts from a different vendor for the time being so these Place Racing mounting brackets wont go to waste. So I'm going to incur even more costs. Who gets to absorb the loss of these defective mounts when the seller says the manufacturer no longer exists YET still sells the same mounts advertise with the blatantly BS "Lifetime Unconditional Warranty" ? Me.
Naturally as a consumer I would like the best possible deal on prices. However I value service above all else. I will certainly pay more if necessary. That's why I mentioned the story about the JWT ecu. I wanted to save a few bucks through your company but I couldn't even get a callback after calling you guys back to remind your order taking staff that I am awaiting info you guys were suppose to obtain. So I said **** it spend the extra $35+ direct through JWT and get it over with.
A simple solution would be to sell your new mounts at your cost to me so it costs you nothing and minimizes my loss. But it didn't cross your mind.
If you cannot see it from my prospective then I hope that you have continued success with absolutely no product failures because when they arise you certainly cannot handle them accordingly. No, I dont want to buy your mounts at your cost. You shouldve thought of that when you first responded to my email. Thanks for thinking of my misfortune when all you saw was dollar signs. I'm never going to place an order with your company again.
Do everyone a favor and take that bullsh!t " Lifetime unconditional guarantee by Place Racing" off your website. If it doesnt exist effective 1 month ago so why continue to advertise it?
Originally Posted by TopElement
Really? Questions about TET products are in someway related to deformed PR motor mounts? Interesting.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=326990
Bad customer service as its worse.
Originally Posted by VeeQueue
I had your headers installed by a mechanic during my engine swap. I have your version 2 headers in which the downpipe/flexpipe were redesigned and are no longer the same color as the headers themself. The headers were bolted onto the heads. When the downpipe flange mated with one of the header flange it caused the other header flange to be off by more than 1/2 inch. The mechanic had to heat the pipe with a torch and bend it to allow both header flanges to mate.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Max
I had the same issue when I mounted my headers. All I had to do was loosen the header nuts and allow the headers to move a bit until everything lined up. I'm amazed your mechanic didn't think to do that. It's a pretty standard procedure. I guess it was easier just to get the torch out.
The pipe's off diagonally and vertically so if you make any adjustment to the header(s) themselves to get both header flanges flush with the adjoining pipe flanges then one of the headers can no longer be mounted onto the studs. Yes, it was off by a lot. Even if it was off by a little you dont want to force the flanges to mate. The gasket wont have a flat surface and wont seal properly and you'll end up with an exhaust leak. However it was off by a lot and there were only 2 options. Wait for a replacement or torch that ****. He wanted to wait. I didn't want downtime so I told him to torch it.
The adjoining downpipe's been removed a couple of times already and it fits like how it was intended to be: like a glove.
Sounds to me like people expect to pay for a sow's ear and get a silk purse.
Cattman is not PR's warranty fulfillment department.. If PR has a problem with their product, it's up to them to remedy it. Just because Cattman sold it doesn't mean it's his fault when YOU mount headers onto your car and melt the rubber in the mounts.
He's giving you the only viable option that he can and not take money out of his own pocket. you still don't seem to realize that there's nothing Brian can do with those bad mounts either- Place Racing still exists solely as a wharehouse with inventory to sell until it's gone. once it's gone, there will be no more Place Racing, and warranties are all null and void as of the day they officially stopped production and ran out of stock on them.
Again, that's PLACE RACING's fault, not Cattman's. If you have a problem with THEIR MOUNTS, take it up with THEM. They don't exist? then I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have bought from a company that went under. that's not Brian's fault, and now you're expecting him to hand you money out of his pocket because YOU damaged Place Racing's parts.
I fail to see your logic here.
Cattman is not PR's warranty fulfillment department.. If PR has a problem with their product, it's up to them to remedy it. Just because Cattman sold it doesn't mean it's his fault when YOU mount headers onto your car and melt the rubber in the mounts.
He's giving you the only viable option that he can and not take money out of his own pocket. you still don't seem to realize that there's nothing Brian can do with those bad mounts either- Place Racing still exists solely as a wharehouse with inventory to sell until it's gone. once it's gone, there will be no more Place Racing, and warranties are all null and void as of the day they officially stopped production and ran out of stock on them.
Again, that's PLACE RACING's fault, not Cattman's. If you have a problem with THEIR MOUNTS, take it up with THEM. They don't exist? then I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have bought from a company that went under. that's not Brian's fault, and now you're expecting him to hand you money out of his pocket because YOU damaged Place Racing's parts.
I fail to see your logic here.
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Before I start let start by saying this: If you don't want to bother reading the long drawn out posts I've made then please do not bother replying because Matt93SE's post is a perfect example of someone who didn't read carefully and miss major points I've laid out.
Your first sentence tells me you have absolutely no clue what the point of my thread is.
Fail to see the logic? When he continues to advertise an UNCONDITIONAL lifetime warranty that doesnt exist then he becomes the guarantor. Besides, there weren't any stipulations forbidding the installation of these mounts and his headers.
For example if a person rents a car and the place sells the renter insurance from a company that doesn't exist and the renter gets in a wreck then guess what? The rental company becomes the guarantor of the insurance and is now liable.
Look, I've written a fcking novel already on this matter. But it looks like I have to continue this saga due to some who can't understand simple logic.
I have methodically laid out my points in the above posts. He wants to deny my warranty on the "claim" that Place Racing no longer operates as a business. He stresses that issue because Place Racing offers an UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME guarantee and having no conditions means they must replace it even if the headers caused it.
He wants to cop out due to his disclaimer on simple technicalities so I'm going to dissect it. I made it perfectly clear to everyone that he is still advertising the same mounts as having an unconditional lifetime guarantee. Its not my problem he hasn't updated his site. I dont care if his quaife differential is still being used as a site fluffer even though the part doesn't exist for the consumer. You have to consider and wonder how many people whom arent even familiar with maxima.org that fumbled across his site and purchase those mounts that are no longer backed by the manufacturer. What happens when their mounts fail? You're going to give them the same BS?
Well, I've reasonably demonstrated that Place Racing was still in operation AFTER I notified him of my mount failures. (he was still conducting a group deal on PLACE RACING INTAKES). If they are still churning out intakes for sale as PLACE RACING intakes then they are still operating as PLACE RACING.
And I guess you didn't read carefully. I wasn't expecting him to take money out of his pocket. I wasn't expecting a handout. If you read closely you wouldve caught that.
POP QUIZ: If Cattman sold VeeQueue the ES mounts at his cost, therefore not lose $ in the transaction, then how much $ would VeeQueue take out of Cattman's pocket?
A: $0.
B: $0.
C: $1,000,000.00
I wouldve continued purchasing from him if he did that. Service doesn't end after the transaction takes place. Any monkey can take any stupid orders and fulfill them. Thats the bare minimum of running a business. That's not service. Service is how you take care of problems when they arise. There was a simple solution to my situation and dollar signs clouded his thinking. I will no longer patronize his company to modify my car. I've already sourced my ES bushings from a couple of places. I'm in the market for a big brake kit. He has a Brembo BBK group deal with several hundred dollar savings. So what. I will buy AP brakes from Stillen or elsewhere later on.
If you fail to see the logic then I cannot help you any further. And if you didn't see my points because you glanced at my previous post then do me a favor and dont reply in my thread until you have done so. I'm basically repeating myself.
Your first sentence tells me you have absolutely no clue what the point of my thread is.
Fail to see the logic? When he continues to advertise an UNCONDITIONAL lifetime warranty that doesnt exist then he becomes the guarantor. Besides, there weren't any stipulations forbidding the installation of these mounts and his headers.
For example if a person rents a car and the place sells the renter insurance from a company that doesn't exist and the renter gets in a wreck then guess what? The rental company becomes the guarantor of the insurance and is now liable.
Look, I've written a fcking novel already on this matter. But it looks like I have to continue this saga due to some who can't understand simple logic.
I have methodically laid out my points in the above posts. He wants to deny my warranty on the "claim" that Place Racing no longer operates as a business. He stresses that issue because Place Racing offers an UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME guarantee and having no conditions means they must replace it even if the headers caused it.
He wants to cop out due to his disclaimer on simple technicalities so I'm going to dissect it. I made it perfectly clear to everyone that he is still advertising the same mounts as having an unconditional lifetime guarantee. Its not my problem he hasn't updated his site. I dont care if his quaife differential is still being used as a site fluffer even though the part doesn't exist for the consumer. You have to consider and wonder how many people whom arent even familiar with maxima.org that fumbled across his site and purchase those mounts that are no longer backed by the manufacturer. What happens when their mounts fail? You're going to give them the same BS?
Well, I've reasonably demonstrated that Place Racing was still in operation AFTER I notified him of my mount failures. (he was still conducting a group deal on PLACE RACING INTAKES). If they are still churning out intakes for sale as PLACE RACING intakes then they are still operating as PLACE RACING.
And I guess you didn't read carefully. I wasn't expecting him to take money out of his pocket. I wasn't expecting a handout. If you read closely you wouldve caught that.
POP QUIZ: If Cattman sold VeeQueue the ES mounts at his cost, therefore not lose $ in the transaction, then how much $ would VeeQueue take out of Cattman's pocket?
A: $0.
B: $0.
C: $1,000,000.00
I wouldve continued purchasing from him if he did that. Service doesn't end after the transaction takes place. Any monkey can take any stupid orders and fulfill them. Thats the bare minimum of running a business. That's not service. Service is how you take care of problems when they arise. There was a simple solution to my situation and dollar signs clouded his thinking. I will no longer patronize his company to modify my car. I've already sourced my ES bushings from a couple of places. I'm in the market for a big brake kit. He has a Brembo BBK group deal with several hundred dollar savings. So what. I will buy AP brakes from Stillen or elsewhere later on.
If you fail to see the logic then I cannot help you any further. And if you didn't see my points because you glanced at my previous post then do me a favor and dont reply in my thread until you have done so. I'm basically repeating myself.
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Sounds to me like people expect to pay for a sow's ear and get a silk purse.
Cattman is not PR's warranty fulfillment department.. If PR has a problem with their product, it's up to them to remedy it. Just because Cattman sold it doesn't mean it's his fault when YOU mount headers onto your car and melt the rubber in the mounts.
He's giving you the only viable option that he can and not take money out of his own pocket. you still don't seem to realize that there's nothing Brian can do with those bad mounts either- Place Racing still exists solely as a wharehouse with inventory to sell until it's gone. once it's gone, there will be no more Place Racing, and warranties are all null and void as of the day they officially stopped production and ran out of stock on them.
Again, that's PLACE RACING's fault, not Cattman's. If you have a problem with THEIR MOUNTS, take it up with THEM. They don't exist? then I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have bought from a company that went under. that's not Brian's fault, and now you're expecting him to hand you money out of his pocket because YOU damaged Place Racing's parts.
I fail to see your logic here.
Cattman is not PR's warranty fulfillment department.. If PR has a problem with their product, it's up to them to remedy it. Just because Cattman sold it doesn't mean it's his fault when YOU mount headers onto your car and melt the rubber in the mounts.
He's giving you the only viable option that he can and not take money out of his own pocket. you still don't seem to realize that there's nothing Brian can do with those bad mounts either- Place Racing still exists solely as a wharehouse with inventory to sell until it's gone. once it's gone, there will be no more Place Racing, and warranties are all null and void as of the day they officially stopped production and ran out of stock on them.
Again, that's PLACE RACING's fault, not Cattman's. If you have a problem with THEIR MOUNTS, take it up with THEM. They don't exist? then I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have bought from a company that went under. that's not Brian's fault, and now you're expecting him to hand you money out of his pocket because YOU damaged Place Racing's parts.
I fail to see your logic here.
You're still not seeing the forest through the trees, and I'm not going to spend half an hour to read two screens full of useless banter crying about why brian has lost your business.
Here's the FACTS, not the "facts as you think they should be":
1. Place Racing is the warantor. THEY issue the unconditional warranty. Just because they are still selling off their inventory does NOT mean they are still producing other products. The parts for sale are limited to quantity on hand and when it's gone, the doors are closed and locked forever. Thus Place Racing does not exist other than a warehouse with a name on it. All warranties are null and void on the products that came from that place, since the business entity is no longer there.
2. Cattman is NOT the warrantor.
3. As you've mentioned, Cattman's website hasn't been updated in months and his web developer is working on a new one. He has a disclaimer at the bottom of Contact us page: "All prices and policies subject to revision at any time and may not be reflected in this website."
Thus, Brian is not legally liable for your issues.
Whether it's product fluff or not is not his problem. YOU should have researched the products originating companies before buying.
Just because Cattman sells the parts from a company that WAS in business doesn't mean that he must legally warrant their "defective" parts. I'm also fairly sure that if Place Racing knew you were running them with headers, they would not have recommended the mounts to you.
4. Your example of the rental car above is ludicrous. What you're talking about there is FRAUD in all aspects. A company knowingly and willfully sells "insurance" from a company they know does not exist.
Place Racing USED to exist and these are hard goods. This is not an insurance policy you bought.
Had you taken said rental car out and willingly raced the car or gotten drunk and subsequently smashed it into telephone pole, the insurance would be null and void. Same situation in this case. You used a product in a way that it was not designed for- The motor mounts were not designed to work with Cattman's headers in mind, and that's not Brian's fault.
You made a conscious choice to buy both the mounts and the headers and had them installed on your car. Thus the warranty is basically null and void if you want to get into legal specifics. I'm sure if Place Racing was still around and you read their legal fine print, the use of these parts under the conditions you put them in would have voided the "unconditional" warranty.
5. You still seem to be under the assumption that Brian is here to serve you. He is not. He is in the business of selling car parts. Some are of his own design. Some are products that he resells from other manufacturers. The parts that he manufactures has a warranty on them and he is the warrantor. The parts that he resells have MANUFACTURER warranties on them, and he is not responsible for those products other than to mail them to you when you send him money for them. Once they are out his door, he is no longer responsible for their use, misuse, warranty, or repair.
If you think that makes him unprofessional or whatnot, I'd be glad to highlight a few of Stillen's wonderful business practices or describe my "unconditional warranty" fights with both Tokico and Koni on damaged shocks- none of which Stillen backed even though I sent them about $1500 for said parts and they failed shortly after within warranty clauses. In both cases, the shocks were returned to Tokico or Koni (NOT STILLEN) for the warranty determination, and then the new parts would have been shipped to me from Stillen. That was not the case and I had to buy new ones. Thus Tok/Koni are the warrantors and Stillen is the executor. see the difference?
6. Brian offered to sell you the ES mounts at cost when you asked about it, whether indirectly or not.
7. Caveat Emptor.
I'm sorry you have this problem and I empathize with your situation (yes, I've been there before so I can truely empathize...), but you still don't understand the bottom line. You're barking up the wrong tree for warranty replacement, even though the products weren't used as they were intended. Then you blaspheme a legitimate businessman and air all kinds of dirty laundry because you have your Manties(c) in a wad. You're expecting him to honor the warranty of a company that doesn't exist- kinda hard to get parts that aren't even being made anymore.
Here's the FACTS, not the "facts as you think they should be":
1. Place Racing is the warantor. THEY issue the unconditional warranty. Just because they are still selling off their inventory does NOT mean they are still producing other products. The parts for sale are limited to quantity on hand and when it's gone, the doors are closed and locked forever. Thus Place Racing does not exist other than a warehouse with a name on it. All warranties are null and void on the products that came from that place, since the business entity is no longer there.
2. Cattman is NOT the warrantor.
3. As you've mentioned, Cattman's website hasn't been updated in months and his web developer is working on a new one. He has a disclaimer at the bottom of Contact us page: "All prices and policies subject to revision at any time and may not be reflected in this website."
Thus, Brian is not legally liable for your issues.
Whether it's product fluff or not is not his problem. YOU should have researched the products originating companies before buying.
Just because Cattman sells the parts from a company that WAS in business doesn't mean that he must legally warrant their "defective" parts. I'm also fairly sure that if Place Racing knew you were running them with headers, they would not have recommended the mounts to you.
4. Your example of the rental car above is ludicrous. What you're talking about there is FRAUD in all aspects. A company knowingly and willfully sells "insurance" from a company they know does not exist.
Place Racing USED to exist and these are hard goods. This is not an insurance policy you bought.
Had you taken said rental car out and willingly raced the car or gotten drunk and subsequently smashed it into telephone pole, the insurance would be null and void. Same situation in this case. You used a product in a way that it was not designed for- The motor mounts were not designed to work with Cattman's headers in mind, and that's not Brian's fault.
You made a conscious choice to buy both the mounts and the headers and had them installed on your car. Thus the warranty is basically null and void if you want to get into legal specifics. I'm sure if Place Racing was still around and you read their legal fine print, the use of these parts under the conditions you put them in would have voided the "unconditional" warranty.
5. You still seem to be under the assumption that Brian is here to serve you. He is not. He is in the business of selling car parts. Some are of his own design. Some are products that he resells from other manufacturers. The parts that he manufactures has a warranty on them and he is the warrantor. The parts that he resells have MANUFACTURER warranties on them, and he is not responsible for those products other than to mail them to you when you send him money for them. Once they are out his door, he is no longer responsible for their use, misuse, warranty, or repair.
If you think that makes him unprofessional or whatnot, I'd be glad to highlight a few of Stillen's wonderful business practices or describe my "unconditional warranty" fights with both Tokico and Koni on damaged shocks- none of which Stillen backed even though I sent them about $1500 for said parts and they failed shortly after within warranty clauses. In both cases, the shocks were returned to Tokico or Koni (NOT STILLEN) for the warranty determination, and then the new parts would have been shipped to me from Stillen. That was not the case and I had to buy new ones. Thus Tok/Koni are the warrantors and Stillen is the executor. see the difference?
6. Brian offered to sell you the ES mounts at cost when you asked about it, whether indirectly or not.
7. Caveat Emptor.
I'm sorry you have this problem and I empathize with your situation (yes, I've been there before so I can truely empathize...), but you still don't understand the bottom line. You're barking up the wrong tree for warranty replacement, even though the products weren't used as they were intended. Then you blaspheme a legitimate businessman and air all kinds of dirty laundry because you have your Manties(c) in a wad. You're expecting him to honor the warranty of a company that doesn't exist- kinda hard to get parts that aren't even being made anymore.
Thread Starter
Maxima.org Sponsor and Donating Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 926
You're still not seeing the forest through the trees, and I'm not going to spend half an hour to read two screens full of useless banter crying about why brian has lost your business.
Here's the FACTS, not the "facts as you think they should be":
1. Place Racing is the warantor. THEY issue the unconditional warranty. Just because they are still selling off their inventory does NOT mean they are still producing other products. The parts for sale are limited to quantity on hand and when it's gone, the doors are closed and locked forever. Thus Place Racing does not exist other than a warehouse with a name on it. All warranties are null and void on the products that came from that place, since the business entity is no longer there.
2. Cattman is NOT the warrantor.
3. As you've mentioned, Cattman's website hasn't been updated in months and his web developer is working on a new one. He has a disclaimer at the bottom of Contact us page: "All prices and policies subject to revision at any time and may not be reflected in this website."
Thus, Brian is not legally liable for your issues.
Whether it's product fluff or not is not his problem. YOU should have researched the products originating companies before buying.
Just because Cattman sells the parts from a company that WAS in business doesn't mean that he must legally warrant their "defective" parts. I'm also fairly sure that if Place Racing knew you were running them with headers, they would not have recommended the mounts to you.
Here's the FACTS, not the "facts as you think they should be":
1. Place Racing is the warantor. THEY issue the unconditional warranty. Just because they are still selling off their inventory does NOT mean they are still producing other products. The parts for sale are limited to quantity on hand and when it's gone, the doors are closed and locked forever. Thus Place Racing does not exist other than a warehouse with a name on it. All warranties are null and void on the products that came from that place, since the business entity is no longer there.
2. Cattman is NOT the warrantor.
3. As you've mentioned, Cattman's website hasn't been updated in months and his web developer is working on a new one. He has a disclaimer at the bottom of Contact us page: "All prices and policies subject to revision at any time and may not be reflected in this website."
Thus, Brian is not legally liable for your issues.
Whether it's product fluff or not is not his problem. YOU should have researched the products originating companies before buying.
Just because Cattman sells the parts from a company that WAS in business doesn't mean that he must legally warrant their "defective" parts. I'm also fairly sure that if Place Racing knew you were running them with headers, they would not have recommended the mounts to you.
You are under the assumption that the headers are the reason why the mounts failed. That is still under debate. I've known people running Hasport engine mounts which uses polyurethane running 4-1 headers in their CRXs/ Civics for YEARS w/o any problems. ES have been selling their polyurethane inserts for cars with mounts adjacent to the exhaust manifold/headers and they have no problems with their polyurehane mounting. Again, you are under the assumption that the headers caused the mounts.
I've pointed out that during that time I made the inquiry that they ARE STILL IN BUSINESS!~! During that time they were manufacturing Place Racing intakes for him to sell. With that coupled with the UNCONDITIONAL lifetime warranty my claim QUALIFIES and I should have new mounts in my possession!
You are really grasping for straws. If they knew I was running headers they wouldn't have recommended the mounts to me. LOL. THAT IS CLASSIC. Place Racing made their name supplying engine mounts for HYBRID Swaps. whether it be Bseries mount kits for civics, H series for Civics/integras or B series for the 86-89 Accords. You dont think they were running headers or FI or the like that would generate copious amounts of heat? You are delusional. Were you there during Place Racing's R&D when they decided that headers are not to be used in conjunction with the motor mounts? I've emphasized UNCONDITIONAL many times. You just dont get it.
4. Your example of the rental car above is ludicrous. What you're talking about there is FRAUD in all aspects. A company knowingly and willfully sells "insurance" from a company they know does not exist.
Place Racing USED to exist and these are hard goods. This is not an insurance policy you bought.
Had you taken said rental car out and willingly raced the car or gotten drunk and subsequently smashed it into telephone pole, the insurance would be null and void. Same situation in this case. You used a product in a way that it was not designed for- The motor mounts were not designed to work with Cattman's headers in mind, and that's not Brian's fault.
You made a conscious choice to buy both the mounts and the headers and had them installed on your car. Thus the warranty is basically null and void if you want to get into legal specifics. I'm sure if Place Racing was still around and you read their legal fine print, the use of these parts under the conditions you put them in would have voided the "unconditional" warranty.
Thank you. Please drive through. Say hi to your friend for me
Go look at the mechanics of the situation.. how many of said hybrid swaps have the exhaust and engine mount crammed into a tiny spot between the engine and the firewall?
Now look at the Maxima exhaust.. cramped engine bay.. thin exhaust tubes, TONS of heat very very close to the engine mount. note it was only the rear one that sagged- where the heat is trapped back there. on the front mount, there is tons of air circulation around it.
IIRC, honda exhausts come off the FRONT of the engine where there is tons of cold air blowing on them from the radiator and front of the car.
the only other possible explanation of the poly sagging like that is uncured or overstressed urethane- which I highly doubt. consumer quality resins cure to 100% within a week, and I'm sure the commercial stuff cures in hours. So unless your engine weighs 900lb (which I know for a fact it doesn't) or you install the mounts within a few days of them being made (and I'm 99.99% sure that didn't happen), then the urethane would have been fully cured and able to withstand normal usage.
Did your front mount deform any? Up or down? If so, then you may have a bit more to stand on.. but right now you have nothing other than one failed rear mount given the fact you removed the heatshield and ran headers on it.
"Still in business" means nothing if the fabrication shop has closed their doors. Take that to small claims court and see just how far you get with it. I know for a fact you won't get very far.
The person you need to be contacting is Place Racing.. here's 30 seconds of info from our friend, whois.
Place Racing (24637575O)
1016 West Gladstone
Azusa, CA 91702
US
Phone: 999 999 9999
Fax: 999 999 9999
Domain Name: PLACERACING.COM
Administrative Contact :
Garcia, Gilbert
(GG2953)
gil@PLACERACING.COM
1016 W. Gladstone St.
Azusa, CA 91702
US
Phone: (626) 334-3345
Fax: (626) 334-3225
Technical Contact :
Garcia, Gilbert
(24637576I)
gil@PLACERACING.COM
1016 W. Gladstone St.
Azusa, CA 91702
US
Phone: (626) 334-3345
Fax: (626) 334-3225
Record expires on 08-Jan-2008
Record created on 09-Jan-1998
Database last updated on 07-Jul-2004
So give ol' Gilbert a call and see how far you get. if you're lucky, they'll have another set of mounts left on the shelf and you can get them from them. but good luck.
.... oh... you forgot to ask me if I wanted fries with that..
:
Now look at the Maxima exhaust.. cramped engine bay.. thin exhaust tubes, TONS of heat very very close to the engine mount. note it was only the rear one that sagged- where the heat is trapped back there. on the front mount, there is tons of air circulation around it.
IIRC, honda exhausts come off the FRONT of the engine where there is tons of cold air blowing on them from the radiator and front of the car.
the only other possible explanation of the poly sagging like that is uncured or overstressed urethane- which I highly doubt. consumer quality resins cure to 100% within a week, and I'm sure the commercial stuff cures in hours. So unless your engine weighs 900lb (which I know for a fact it doesn't) or you install the mounts within a few days of them being made (and I'm 99.99% sure that didn't happen), then the urethane would have been fully cured and able to withstand normal usage.
Did your front mount deform any? Up or down? If so, then you may have a bit more to stand on.. but right now you have nothing other than one failed rear mount given the fact you removed the heatshield and ran headers on it.
"Still in business" means nothing if the fabrication shop has closed their doors. Take that to small claims court and see just how far you get with it. I know for a fact you won't get very far.
The person you need to be contacting is Place Racing.. here's 30 seconds of info from our friend, whois.
Place Racing (24637575O)
1016 West Gladstone
Azusa, CA 91702
US
Phone: 999 999 9999
Fax: 999 999 9999
Domain Name: PLACERACING.COM
Administrative Contact :
Garcia, Gilbert
(GG2953)
gil@PLACERACING.COM
1016 W. Gladstone St.
Azusa, CA 91702
US
Phone: (626) 334-3345
Fax: (626) 334-3225
Technical Contact :
Garcia, Gilbert
(24637576I)
gil@PLACERACING.COM
1016 W. Gladstone St.
Azusa, CA 91702
US
Phone: (626) 334-3345
Fax: (626) 334-3225
Record expires on 08-Jan-2008
Record created on 09-Jan-1998
Database last updated on 07-Jul-2004
So give ol' Gilbert a call and see how far you get. if you're lucky, they'll have another set of mounts left on the shelf and you can get them from them. but good luck.
.... oh... you forgot to ask me if I wanted fries with that..
:
Thread Starter
Maxima.org Sponsor and Donating Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 926
Sigh,
This is getting lame. I told you to read before you write. You wrote again without reading.
I emailed him Dec 13.
Cattman's OWN post stating he spoke to the owner of Place Racing on Dec 14 that the last batch of intakes are almost ready to be ship. I already posted this earlier. PLACE RACING WAS MANUFACTURING PARTS LABELED AS PLACE RACING GOODS. So all your talk about how doors are shut etc are pointless because obviously their doors weren't shut.
I dunno, but I think any dumba$$ can conclude that Place Racing was still in business before, during, and after I notified Cattman of the mount failure.
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=536
Sigh, E55AMG2 has hotshot headers and the PR mounts. His didn't deform. What about the guys running FI and the mounts?
Ok, so I have a "bit more to stand on" in your eyes if the fronts failed. Well for one thing they are soft. Much softer than the ES bushings. Second, you proven my case for me using the quote re: hondas.
My eyes may be deceiving me, but the last time I took a glance at my Maxima it contained a transversed mounted V6 with an exhaust protruding out of the cylinder head in "FRONT of the engine where there is tons of cold air blowinig on them from the radiator and front of the car"
Go look at an engine bay of a CRX. You but a B Series swap and you want to put a 4-1 headers you have to notch the front radiator support/subframe area for clearance. The space is tight. There is a mount in that adjacent are. Hondas being tracked on a road race course will generate a hell of a lot more heat than a typical Maxima cruising down the boulevard. You'll have a hard time finding failed mounts on those cars.
K Series Honda motors spin clockwise and the exhaust manifold is in the back next to the firewall. I've installed ES motor mount inserts on a RSX type S and a Civic SI a couple of years ago and the rear mounts are adjacent to the header (on the cars I installed each car is equipped with a header). They've been drag raced and road raced but mostly daily driven. No failure of the polyurethane. Go figure.
Go back to the above when Cattman got off the PHONE WITH THE OWNER OF PLACE RACING. I've already covered this in the beginning. That is why his service SUCKS. We have a Johnny come VERY LATELY that thinks he's breaking new ground but doesn't even bother to cover the ones already laid out.
Ladies and Gents, here we have a perfect example of why reading comprehension skills are at all-time lows.
This is getting lame. I told you to read before you write. You wrote again without reading.
I emailed him Dec 13.
Cattman's OWN post stating he spoke to the owner of Place Racing on Dec 14 that the last batch of intakes are almost ready to be ship. I already posted this earlier. PLACE RACING WAS MANUFACTURING PARTS LABELED AS PLACE RACING GOODS. So all your talk about how doors are shut etc are pointless because obviously their doors weren't shut.
I dunno, but I think any dumba$$ can conclude that Place Racing was still in business before, during, and after I notified Cattman of the mount failure.
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=536
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Go look at the mechanics of the situation.. how many of said hybrid swaps have the exhaust and engine mount crammed into a tiny spot between the engine and the firewall?
Now look at the Maxima exhaust.. cramped engine bay.. thin exhaust tubes, TONS of heat very very close to the engine mount. note it was only the rear one that sagged- where the heat is trapped back there. on the front mount, there is tons of air circulation around it.
IIRC, honda exhausts come off the FRONT of the engine where there is tons of cold air blowing on them from the radiator and front of the car.
the only other possible explanation of the poly sagging like that is uncured or overstressed urethane- which I highly doubt. consumer quality resins cure to 100% within a week, and I'm sure the commercial stuff cures in hours. So unless your engine weighs 900lb (which I know for a fact it doesn't) or you install the mounts within a few days of them being made (and I'm 99.99% sure that didn't happen), then the urethane would have been fully cured and able to withstand normal usage.
Did your front mount deform any? Up or down? If so, then you may have a bit more to stand on.. but right now you have nothing other than one failed rear mount given the fact you removed the heatshield and ran headers on it.
Now look at the Maxima exhaust.. cramped engine bay.. thin exhaust tubes, TONS of heat very very close to the engine mount. note it was only the rear one that sagged- where the heat is trapped back there. on the front mount, there is tons of air circulation around it.
IIRC, honda exhausts come off the FRONT of the engine where there is tons of cold air blowing on them from the radiator and front of the car.
the only other possible explanation of the poly sagging like that is uncured or overstressed urethane- which I highly doubt. consumer quality resins cure to 100% within a week, and I'm sure the commercial stuff cures in hours. So unless your engine weighs 900lb (which I know for a fact it doesn't) or you install the mounts within a few days of them being made (and I'm 99.99% sure that didn't happen), then the urethane would have been fully cured and able to withstand normal usage.
Did your front mount deform any? Up or down? If so, then you may have a bit more to stand on.. but right now you have nothing other than one failed rear mount given the fact you removed the heatshield and ran headers on it.
Ok, so I have a "bit more to stand on" in your eyes if the fronts failed. Well for one thing they are soft. Much softer than the ES bushings. Second, you proven my case for me using the quote re: hondas.
honda exhausts come off the FRONT of the engine where there is tons of cold air blowing on them from the radiator and front of the car.
Go look at an engine bay of a CRX. You but a B Series swap and you want to put a 4-1 headers you have to notch the front radiator support/subframe area for clearance. The space is tight. There is a mount in that adjacent are. Hondas being tracked on a road race course will generate a hell of a lot more heat than a typical Maxima cruising down the boulevard. You'll have a hard time finding failed mounts on those cars.
K Series Honda motors spin clockwise and the exhaust manifold is in the back next to the firewall. I've installed ES motor mount inserts on a RSX type S and a Civic SI a couple of years ago and the rear mounts are adjacent to the header (on the cars I installed each car is equipped with a header). They've been drag raced and road raced but mostly daily driven. No failure of the polyurethane. Go figure.
"Still in business" means nothing if the fabrication shop has closed their doors. Take that to small claims court and see just how far you get with it. I know for a fact you won't get very far.
The person you need to be contacting is Place Racing.. here's 30 seconds of info from our friend, whois.
SNIP
So give ol' Gilbert a call and see how far you get. if you're lucky, they'll have another set of mounts left on the shelf and you can get them from them. but good luck.
.... oh... you forgot to ask me if I wanted fries with that..:
The person you need to be contacting is Place Racing.. here's 30 seconds of info from our friend, whois.
SNIP
So give ol' Gilbert a call and see how far you get. if you're lucky, they'll have another set of mounts left on the shelf and you can get them from them. but good luck.
.... oh... you forgot to ask me if I wanted fries with that..
:
Ladies and Gents, here we have a perfect example of why reading comprehension skills are at all-time lows.
The issue with the Maxima mounts is on the REAR of the engine. This is where temps are highest. the front of a Honda engine will stay much much cooler because it has fresh air blowing around it from the radiator. the rear of the Maxima engine bay does not have this issue, which is further compounded by the fact there are no heat shields around the mount, and the tubing on the headers is thinner than the stock manifolds and releases a lot more heat than the OE setup.
Under high stress track use, the Honda engine bay will still be relatively cool, as there is a tremendous amount of air being forced through the radiator at 100mph.
Place Racing may still be operating, but only to get rid of the stock on hand. how many times do I have to say this? It does not take urethane molding equipment and machine lathes to produce a cold air intake, but it does take them to make an engine mount. If the business is going under, it's very likely that tooling and equipment has been sold to pay off debts. (That's of course speculation by me, but Hell- you're pretty good at that yourself.)
The only equipment needed to produce a CAI is a welder, tubing notcher, and a powdercoating setup. that's less than $1000 in tools, which I have in my own garage. They probably have a truckload of K&N filters they're trying to dump as well.
So take it up with Place Racing if you think they're still operating. it's THEIR problem to fix the mounts, NOT Cattmans.
And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop the personal jabs at my reading comprehension.. You are the one trying to get products for free after you misused them and ruind them. You either didn't read the fine print, read it and didn't understand it, or read it and simply don't care. The legal system is set up to protect the business as well, not you. Good luck trying to win your little arguement in court. "well the guy was still selling intakes, so he should honor my warranty on the mounts!" Yeah, that'll fly.
I'm done wasting my time. good luck getting any recourse from either company at this point.
Under high stress track use, the Honda engine bay will still be relatively cool, as there is a tremendous amount of air being forced through the radiator at 100mph.
Place Racing may still be operating, but only to get rid of the stock on hand. how many times do I have to say this? It does not take urethane molding equipment and machine lathes to produce a cold air intake, but it does take them to make an engine mount. If the business is going under, it's very likely that tooling and equipment has been sold to pay off debts. (That's of course speculation by me, but Hell- you're pretty good at that yourself.)
The only equipment needed to produce a CAI is a welder, tubing notcher, and a powdercoating setup. that's less than $1000 in tools, which I have in my own garage. They probably have a truckload of K&N filters they're trying to dump as well.
So take it up with Place Racing if you think they're still operating. it's THEIR problem to fix the mounts, NOT Cattmans.
And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop the personal jabs at my reading comprehension.. You are the one trying to get products for free after you misused them and ruind them. You either didn't read the fine print, read it and didn't understand it, or read it and simply don't care. The legal system is set up to protect the business as well, not you. Good luck trying to win your little arguement in court. "well the guy was still selling intakes, so he should honor my warranty on the mounts!" Yeah, that'll fly.
I'm done wasting my time. good luck getting any recourse from either company at this point.
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The issue with the Maxima mounts is on the REAR of the engine. This is where temps are highest. the front of a Honda engine will stay much much cooler because it has fresh air blowing around it from the radiator. the rear of the Maxima engine bay does not have this issue, which is further compounded by the fact there are no heat shields around the mount, and the tubing on the headers is thinner than the stock manifolds and releases a lot more heat than the OE setup.
Under high stress track use, the Honda engine bay will still be relatively cool, as there is a tremendous amount of air being forced through the radiator at 100mph.
Place Racing may still be operating, but only to get rid of the stock on hand. how many times do I have to say this? It does not take urethane molding equipment and machine lathes to produce a cold air intake, but it does take them to make an engine mount. If the business is going under, it's very likely that tooling and equipment has been sold to pay off debts. (That's of course speculation by me, but Hell- you're pretty good at that yourself.)
The only equipment needed to produce a CAI is a welder, tubing notcher, and a powdercoating setup. that's less than $1000 in tools, which I have in my own garage. They probably have a truckload of K&N filters they're trying to dump as well.
So take it up with Place Racing if you think they're still operating. it's THEIR problem to fix the mounts, NOT Cattmans.
So take it up with Place Racing if you think they're still operating. it's THEIR problem to fix the mounts, NOT Cattmans.
And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop the personal jabs at my reading comprehension.. You are the one trying to get products for free after you misused them and ruind them. You either didn't read the fine print, read it and didn't understand it, or read it and simply don't care. The legal system is set up to protect the business as well, not you. Good luck trying to win your little arguement in court. "well the guy was still selling intakes, so he should honor my warranty on the mounts!" Yeah, that'll fly.
I'm done wasting my time. good luck getting any recourse from either company at this point.
I'm done wasting my time. good luck getting any recourse from either company at this point.
You type all this garbage and you STILL dont get the point of the thread. Oh, um, if you haven't figured it out, I'm running new mounts. You didn't seriously think I still want **** from this joker do you? LOL. And dont take personal jabs? I dont need to. Everything I said is evident in your replies. And your blurb about arguing this in court? I'm not a litigious person but it sounds like you've been in the receiving end of civil suits yourself. Right now its all about the court of public opinion. You want to continue this t!t for tat? Be my guest. Its a free bump for me.
Okay.. let's get the facts down once again, since my reading comprehension is obviously sub-par.
1. You bought PR motor mounts and Cattman headers, both from Cattman and installed them. (this constitues misuse in the strictest definition of form because you didn't install these on an otherwise stock car)
2. You melted the rear mount- most likely due to heat issues from the headers.
3. you contacted Brian about the situation.
4. Brian replied that they looked to be melted and wouldn't be covered under warranty, Even if the company was still in business- which it's not for all intents and purposes. He offered you a couple of solutions to rectify the problem, none of which you liked because it would cost you money to replace a part you destroyed.
5. You then whine and complain on here because Cattman isn't handing you another set of mounts or giving your money back on a product that isn't his responsiblity to warrant.
6. I call you on your logic and you insult my intelligence, morals, and my business ethics.
and no, I have not been on the receiving side of any civil suits. Because of people like you, I have been required to spend several thousand dollars and 100+ hours dealing with scumbag lawyers just to set up my small business so that I don't get sued out of everything I own because someone misused a part I designed and killed themselves and is now suing me. That's how I know this, and it's only necessary because of people like you.
Standing behind your own products is one thing, but taking the fall for someone else's is another. I don't know of too many businesses that would be willing to do that for a customer that so easily turns on them and airs crap like this.
1. You bought PR motor mounts and Cattman headers, both from Cattman and installed them. (this constitues misuse in the strictest definition of form because you didn't install these on an otherwise stock car)
2. You melted the rear mount- most likely due to heat issues from the headers.
3. you contacted Brian about the situation.
4. Brian replied that they looked to be melted and wouldn't be covered under warranty, Even if the company was still in business- which it's not for all intents and purposes. He offered you a couple of solutions to rectify the problem, none of which you liked because it would cost you money to replace a part you destroyed.
5. You then whine and complain on here because Cattman isn't handing you another set of mounts or giving your money back on a product that isn't his responsiblity to warrant.
6. I call you on your logic and you insult my intelligence, morals, and my business ethics.
and no, I have not been on the receiving side of any civil suits. Because of people like you, I have been required to spend several thousand dollars and 100+ hours dealing with scumbag lawyers just to set up my small business so that I don't get sued out of everything I own because someone misused a part I designed and killed themselves and is now suing me. That's how I know this, and it's only necessary because of people like you.
Standing behind your own products is one thing, but taking the fall for someone else's is another. I don't know of too many businesses that would be willing to do that for a customer that so easily turns on them and airs crap like this.
Thread Starter
Maxima.org Sponsor and Donating Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 926
Okay.. let's get the facts down once again, since my reading comprehension is obviously sub-par.
1. You bought PR motor mounts and Cattman headers, both from Cattman and installed them. (this constitues misuse in the strictest definition of form because you didn't install these on an otherwise stock car)
1. You bought PR motor mounts and Cattman headers, both from Cattman and installed them. (this constitues misuse in the strictest definition of form because you didn't install these on an otherwise stock car)
2. You melted the rear mount- most likely due to heat issues from the headers.
3. you contacted Brian about the situation.
wow, the first correct "fact".
4. Brian replied that they looked to be melted and wouldn't be covered under warranty, Even if the company was still in business- which it's not for all intents and purposes. He offered you a couple of solutions to rectify the problem, none of which you liked because it would cost you money to replace a part you destroyed.
5. You then whine and complain on here because Cattman isn't handing you another set of mounts or giving your money back on a product that isn't his responsiblity to warrant.
6. I call you on your logic and you insult my intelligence, morals, and my business ethics.
and no, I have not been on the receiving side of any civil suits. Because of people like you, I have been required to spend several thousand dollars and 100+ hours dealing with scumbag lawyers just to set up my small business so that I don't get sued out of everything I own because someone misused a part I designed and killed themselves and is now suing me. That's how I know this, and it's only necessary because of people like you.
Standing behind your own products is one thing, but taking the fall for someone else's is another. I don't know of too many businesses that would be willing to do that for a customer that so easily turns on them and airs crap like this.
And FYI I do know several companies including DROP SHIPPERS in the past that have gone far and beyond what anyone would expect for shop owners. Then again, how would you know. You're sitting around making up **** in this thread. And still you dont get the point. I will not volunteer that info because I do want you to continue replying to this thread.
Btw, thanks for the bump.
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Okay.. let's get the facts down once again, since my reading comprehension is obviously sub-par.
1. You bought PR motor mounts and Cattman headers, both from Cattman and installed them. (this constitues misuse in the strictest definition of form because you didn't install these on an otherwise stock car)
2. You melted the rear mount- most likely due to heat issues from the headers.
1. You bought PR motor mounts and Cattman headers, both from Cattman and installed them. (this constitues misuse in the strictest definition of form because you didn't install these on an otherwise stock car)
2. You melted the rear mount- most likely due to heat issues from the headers.
Please explain to me what you mean by #1. I am at a loss here.
On #2.. there are turbo maxima's using the PR mounts, and I can bet they make more heat than these headers.. why did those not melt?
Go look at the fine print in the warranty/guarantee sections on the mounts. There's always stipulations to that "UNCONDITIONAL WARANTEE", and I have a sneaky suspicion those stipulations have been violated by installing the headers.
I'm not going to bother with the rest of the BS above, since we've each made our points from both sides and he doesn't seem to like my opinion. The arguements can go on for years, but facts are facts.. the customer expects more than the supplier is willing to give in the situation and he's upset. Life's tough. get over it. I have.
I'm not going to bother with the rest of the BS above, since we've each made our points from both sides and he doesn't seem to like my opinion. The arguements can go on for years, but facts are facts.. the customer expects more than the supplier is willing to give in the situation and he's upset. Life's tough. get over it. I have.
Veequeue posted his experience and he was crapped on by the person that sold him the product. The proof will be in the pudding when Veequeue's new mounts will hold up and do what they're supposed to do.
What did PR use to fill those mounts with anyway? Vasaline?
What did PR use to fill those mounts with anyway? Vasaline?
Now surely he's not the only guy to have both Cattman headers and PR mounts. Did anybody who put heat shielding material on the mounts get this issue? Mine are still not installed. He said to put heat shielding material when I ordered them.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,687
From: Charlotte, NC
The following post is not intended to cause blame to anyone, nor bring up old subjects, but....
I used to run the PR motor mounts with Stillen headers. In January, I replaced the Stillen headers with HotShot headers. 3 days later, the car was back in the shop for other reasons. While the car was up on the rack, the tech noticed that the rear PR motor mount had been deformed. He was the same tech that installed the Stillen headers 3 days ago. I had the stock motor mounts reinstalled later that week.
I used to run the PR motor mounts with Stillen headers. In January, I replaced the Stillen headers with HotShot headers. 3 days later, the car was back in the shop for other reasons. While the car was up on the rack, the tech noticed that the rear PR motor mount had been deformed. He was the same tech that installed the Stillen headers 3 days ago. I had the stock motor mounts reinstalled later that week.
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