mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

I did a huge install of alot of audio equipment, as well as planned on opening my headlights, blacken them out, and install um nitza angel eyes.

Everything went as planed except for the angel eyes, i had the headlight open, took one set out of the package and just did a quick fitting/placement, and thought it was a bit off. Didnt seem to fit correctly, they looked too small as if they were going to block the light from my projector, and leave ugly ring on my turn signal. but i was optimistic and brought it over to the guy i had doing all my audio and electrical work for his opinion. He took a look at it and thought the same thing...it was off. So i aborted that portion, and went on to black out the headlights and go on as scheduled, figuring i could return them with no problem, especially considering i thought the fitment was off, and i only removed one sticker from the entire package. BOY WAS I WRONG!!!!!!!

Of course I was a bit angry, i mean i spent nearly 200 bucks, spent all day opening up the lights, then even more time getting the second opinion. So i sent an email to Um Nitza. He responded profesionally and seemed he wanted to resolve this. As I explained myself, and stated everything that had happened he questioned me about the same things, sent me a link saying its straight forward (basiaclly saying an idiot can do it even though i had an certified electrian with over 10 years of experience in car audio, home audio, and many other applications). But i kept explainign myself to him, and getting responses like "Then how do you know it doesn’t fit?" as if trying to catch me in a lie of some sort. Then to top it off I asked for a full refund, and if it could not be provided i could simply resell them, and warm fellow maxima owners of my experience. He rebuts about taking legal action and so on.

Well to make a long story short the customer service was horrible, condescending, and overall just unhelpful, and unwilling to satisfy or even listen to a paying customer.

Here are the emails (start at the bottom)

also here is a link to a bunch of people form a BMW forum also with customer service/product problems.

http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/pro...off-47293.html

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

so if anyone wants to buy them Um Nitza offered me 119, so thats my price. They are brand new.

umnitza

iTrader: (20)

Good for you to post all the emails.
In summary:
1) Purchased a product for $171.99 agreeing to the terms and conditions on the site.
2) Opened the product only to decide after opening the product and attempting to fit it that it was not what you wanted.
3) Requested a full refund not to the policy conditions you agreed to when you purchased it.
4) Threatened a public negative publicity campaign and when we told you we would not be black mailed you posted it.

We have performed every duty from attempting to help you install with photos to helping explain your situation for you.

In short you have been treated professionally and fairly like every other customer that buys product.

Given your decision we have no choice but to cancel your warranty and cancel the warranty for the product to any future buyers of it.

EDIT: Further evidence of the correct product being shipped:

umnitza

iTrader: (20)

At no point was customer service declined to him. If he had walked up to the counter, the rules are still the same, there is a 20% restocking fee.

At no point was support refused.
At no point was any help declined.
You know what they say about those that "teach" a subject...

umnitza

iTrader: (20)

Did you read what he stated? It's not that it doesn't fit properly, it's that he THINKS it doesn't fit to his liking. And we did offer him a restocking fee discount AFTER he said he opened the product and attempted install.

Read the terms and conditions of our product page. It's spelled out exactly for you before you buy.

umnitza

iTrader: (20)

Those that can - do, those that can't teach.
Keep that in mind when you decide you know more about our customers and our company than you do.

Selective reading is not how a good 'teacher' processes information. We respond to attacks just a little slower than emails, but facts shouldn't get into your way.

Fact: the product DOES fit
Fact: he doesn't like how it looks, not that it doesn't fit, it fits, even by his own admission it lines up, but he doesn't like it.
Fact: he was offered an immediate discount per our restocking policy which was clearly stated and a requirement prior to check out.

Strontium

Let me get this straight. Correct me, if I'm in error please. You put them on, then 'thought' it didn't look right. You, then, got the opinion of someone else who is an electrician (not sure what the Hell that has to do with fitment) and he also 'thought' it didn't look right.

Did you ever test it? You put it on, thought it didn't look right, then removed it before ever verifying your 'thought'.

I'm not defending the seller. However, your logic is flawed. It's people, like you, that make me glad that I never started a business. I'd deny your refund, as well. You're the putz, in this scenario.

IanL

I've had several good experiences with umnitza before, with my BMW purchases. I think you guys should perhaps fully consider the situation
-products were delivered as promised
-products were fully functional
-products were opened (and thus can no longer be sold as new)

Were umnitza to give a full refund, that would mean they would have to swallow the cost of shipping both ways, as well as the decreased value of the product, despite everything being delivered as promised. Is that the fair result here? Or should the guy who had the change of heart assume the costs? imo, the later is the fair thing

S_Klass

The customer may not always be right but the above statement is 100% true.

Modding and customizing cars is highly subjective and is more of an art than a science. As such, what the vendor feels is a fit and suitable to sell may not be a fit for the client. In this kind of niche industry, where word of mouth is king, a vendor would be wise to treat his customers well (within reason).

This is 2007 where 1 pissed off customer can easily reach 1 million people. Have you heard of www.cingularcucks.com or www.infomercialscams.com?

D-Bo

iTrader: (9)

All details aside, Umnitza has failed to show any professionalism in this or other threads I've read with dissatisfied customers. Insulting people and changing details as you go a long is a poor way to do business.

Even if the customer was 100% in the wrong you could have taken steps in your communication to salvage this customer relationship and avoid the negative publicity. In this case however you have been your own worst enemy.

I appreciate anyone who sponsors this site, but with more and more negative customer service issues your sponsorship and affiliation with this site should be reviewed by the mods/admins to see whether or not you should be allowed to maintain that affiliation.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

I decide what is a sticky.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

I am going to make a statement here, and all future discussion on this subject will be deleted or left here based on what I say. Period.

People may respond to my statements and questions, but for pete's sake- cut out the irrelevant parts of my post if you are quoting me.

Don't like the way that I am dealing with this? Too bad.
Complain about it in a whiny manner? Ban.

Purchaser ordered a product knowing the terms and conditions of returns. He expected a product that fit his vehicle and did what was advertised.

So far, am I accurate?

Purchaser received product. Seller has photos of the item, installed on the same vehicle as the purchaser owns. So we know that it DOES fit the vehicle, and that it looks okay (if you like the angel-eye look to begin with).

Still accurate? Let me know if I get off course.

Now, purchaser, after we know that it fits and CAN look at least "okay" (based on pics posted by the seller), says that he does not like the look or fit or something. I don't know what, because he is pretty vague about his complaint. He said that they don't fit or look how he wants them to, but we know that if installed correctly they do fit and at least look okay.

Now purchaser wants to return them without a fee, despite the fact that he got what he ordered, opened them, tried to install them, and basically changed his mind.

Buyer, if you bought them without seeing what they look like when installed, then shame on you. Apparently, there is a non-transferrability clause in the warranty disclosure, so you knew what you were getting there.

Edit: Upon further research, I see the following:
The pictures are linked on the product page here:
http://www.umnitza.com/product_info....oducts_id=1168
You can clearly see what they will look like when properly installed.

And the link "Look here for details" goes to this album:
http://www.umnitza.com/gallery/album09
That shows how to install it.

Then:
http://www.umnitza.com/gallery/album45
That link saying "Secondary Link" right under...

Also, on the product shipping and terms page:
Warranty is non-tranferable to non-original purchasers.

I don't think that he could possibly cover the bases any more than he did in this situation.

Seller, him wanting to try to extort you (not blackmail) is stupid on his part, but be sure to maintain a professional demeanor.

At any rate- you people tell me whether I have the facts straight. No more extraneous comments from others until I have heard from both sides.

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

No the facts are not straight! they did not fit, ya i got a second opionion, we all go it and heard it. But i was going to return them WITH the fees of +20% but the seller couldnt even respond to a simple email in under 4 days (while im sitting here with 200 bucks down the drain and useless peices of plastic taking up space). There is WAY more to the story than a simple straight forward customer saying they didnt fit, give me all my money back! I wouldn't dare post anything if i was that much of an a$$, and nobody would agree with me if it were that way either!!! So Mods how much did Um Nitza pay ya for editing posts, and interveining with this entire thing, or did he just threaten legal action as he did with me??

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

I told you that if you wanted to reply to my post, please quote me and include the direct points that you refute.

That being said...
Are you saying that your set was defective, or that you did not get the same model that is pictured in the advertisement and on the website, or that you apparently got a set not designed for your car or what?

We have SEEN pictures where they fit, and they look fine (again, it you are into that kind of thing). Apparently, they CAN be installed correctly. So what was the problem with the set that you attempted to install?
What date did you send the email, and what date did he reply? I see his reply, but to be perfectly honest, your FIRST email was a step in the wrong direction. Right or wrong, your approach sucked. You demand a full refund (including shipping) right off of the bat, before even giving him/them a chance to respond. He then replied in an attempt to figure out the problem (maybe you got the wrong set, wrong model, they were defective, whatever) and requested a picture to help sort this out.

I mean, here is the problem- he has multiple pictures of EXACTLY how they will look when properly installed. If you looked at the pictures before ordering, you were basically saying "That is what I want for it to look like." Am I wrong? And if yous did not look like that, then you either installed them incorrectly or they were the wrong part. His replies were aimed at determining which was the cause. If it was the wrong part, he seemed willing to make it correct. If you installed it wrong, well, then that is on you.

So where- exactly- am I wrong here?
Well, here is your chance to explain. If it isn't that, then what is it? I did not see it that way, but I am not involved in the transaction.

I edited most of the posts out because they were not pertanent to the discussion. People saying whether they will or will not buy is irrelevant.

I don't make a dime from this, and Um Nitza merely sent me an email asking that I look the thread over. I applied my own judgement. I am not paid at all to be a moderator. I have no financial stake whatsoever. personally, I think that Angel Eyes look stupid- but that is just me.

My role here is to facilitate the discussion, edit out the unnecessary posts, and try to get everyone to play nice.

I posted my understanding of the situation and my reasons for thinking that way. All that you have said is that I am wrong (but not WHY I am wrong) and that you think that I am cowing to pressure from a sponsor. Personally, I could not care less about his status as a sponsor of the site.

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

Check those links that are posted the first one doesnt work, the second one is a damn Altima, and the third HORAYYY finally a Maxima!! But look at ALL of the pictures, there is not a single one of the kit itself, also there are ZERO of the eyes installed when NOT illuminated, or not at an odd angle, or when its not pitch black out. Just a simple installation picture in the daytime, with the kit NOT on is nowhere to be found, and surprise surprise that is where the item looks off, and a fitment issue occured!!!!!
You destroyed this thread by deleting all those posts. The purpose of a forum is to discuss, learn, and inform other forum members, and even non members. It's funny how all the supports are deleted but those whom dissagree are left to be seen. This thread had validity BECAUSE soo many people agreed and shared their own bad vibes they got form the seller. When 20 people say IM NOT BUYING FORM THIS GUY, it holds much more weight, and shows this is a valid claim, as opposed to this crap that is left behind after everything was edited. Now this looks like a stupid rant, than nobody aknowldeged, agreed with, or learned anything from. You as a moderator destroyed the very purpose fo the forum that your supposed to be moderating!!!!! For what? Because Um Nitza cried to you in an email. this is soo pathetic, c'mon man.

BadBlackMaxSL

iTrader: (1)

What a bastardization of a thread, there is a difference between Moderating and Editing like the Thought Police. The sponsor is also allowed to get one last bash in before he steps out the door; will that post be edited for content too?

The customer states that the product does not fit the way it was portrayed in the pictures on Umnitsa's website. It seems to me that the rings did not sit along the edge of the light's lense against the light housing but were too small in circumference and allowed the projector light and the blinker to show on the outside of the halo. So when he tells the vendor that they don't fit as portrayed- they tell him it does. How do they know that it does fit without witnessing it? They tell the customer 3 times that they fit right- all the way from the other side of the continent.

Now, did both sides error in their handling of the situation? Yes, but from where I sit I see that it was the vendor who fell short in his obligation to make his customer have a positive experience, whether or not he gave him a 100% refund. If the customer wanted to resell them on Ebay, the vendor could have offer info on what other models of cars these would fit and not recind the waaranty on the product like he did. I think lessons were learned by both parties involved. So what is the final resolution for the customer's origional problem?

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

I removed some of his the seller's posts as well. Basically, if people were speculating on something, I got rid of it. I am trying to stick to facts- and I am giving the buyer a full opportunity to state his case.

The org runs on revenue from sponsors, but don't think for a second that we have not booted sponsors in the past for ripping off our members.

Do you not think that I have given BOTH sides to state their case? You actually explain the buyer's situation better than he does, but in reading what he wrote, I am not sure that what you stated was the case. And if it WAS, then it is my opinion- from what was posted by the buyer- that the seller was at the least trying to work with him to determine why there was a problem with the fit.

Maybe I missed something, but it looked to me like the seller wanted to try to get to the root of the problem- namely whether it was the wrong product, a defective product, or install error.

Maybe we are reading different emails, but it seems that your description of the problem may be accurate, but your portrayal of the seller's response seems off. The seller clearly asked for pictures to help get to the root of the problem. If it was YOUR company, and you felt that yuo had designed a good product, shipped the right product, and represented that product accurately on your website (or in your store), would you want to eat the 2-way shipping costs AND be left with a non-sellable unit of inventory without knowing that it was not just installer error at the user end?
Again, it looks to me like all that the seller did was to remind the buyer of the policies that the seller has listed on his website, and that the buyer agrees to in making the purchase.

Now, if it turns out that the product was defective, or the wrong product was shipped, be certain that I will be the first to advocate for the buyer in his claim against the seller.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

mavssolja,

First, if you don't start doing a point-by-point response to my questions, I am deleting this thread and banning you. I am not wasting any more time on this if all that you are going to do is b!tch and moan and not help RESOLVE the issue.

I have asked you several DIRECT questions, and all that you do is go on a rant with every reply. Your next rant will be your last.
So did you or did you not buy the kit having seen what pictures WERE available?
As I said before, I deleted posts of his as well. I deleted posts by people who supported him as well. I left a few well-crafted posts supporting each position with direct experience.

You point about strength in the numbers of people who say that they will now not buy the product has no bearing on your transaction with the seller.
No, I tried to stop it from looking like a b!tch-fest.
It always looked like that.
No, I deleted the posts that did not need to be there because another member reported the post to me so that I could try to sort this out. I did also receive an email from Um Nitza asking that I moderate the disagreement.

As I said- I will be your biggest advocate if you can try to help me sort out WHY the product did not fit as you thought that it should, and if it is indeed the fault of Um Nitza.

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

what would you like me to do come to your house and show you, how and why they do not fit. It is in the posts, some of which you deleted! My laptop is on the fritz so i cant sit here and quote every little thing and do a point by point, sorry. I did look at the pictures before i ordered, they look correct when it is pitch black out, or when they are illuminated and you cannot see the rest of the headlight. A customer would only assume that it also looks correct not illuminated and in the daytime. As i stated many times already, when it is in the light not turned on, IT DOES NOT LOOK IN PLACE, ie THE FITMENT IS OFF! I can't even be sure i have the correct kit becasue there are NO daytime pics, or pics of the kit itself. Clearly there is a reason all the pictures either are in pitchdark, illuminated (the angel eyes), or at odd angles, far away, with no daytime pictures, or even a nighttime picture with the headlight on! Funny that all the problems i had with the kit are the very same type of pictures not taken or posted. Read everything, EVERYTHING, i cant and i wont pick apart every post, point by point for you. You clearly didnt gather all the info before you butchered the thread.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

I'll give you a pass on your laziness because I had a good day at work, but answer this:

How did Um Nitza get them to fit right and you can't?
Also- check your PMs.

To Um Nitza: Do you have any daytime pictures to support your position that they fit well? We can all see them at night, and they apper to be fine, but I must concede that mavssolja has a point that we don't see any daytime pics.

umnitza

iTrader: (20)

maxima photo gallery:
http://www.umnitza.com/gallery/album45
CLICK THIS FOR MAX SIZE


click on this for MAX size:


---
EDIT:
All of which is 2 clicks away if you ask or are simply looking at our web site's product page where they were ORIGINALLY purchased.

EDIT Part 2:

I've met the burden of proof here.
I've delivered a product on time.
I've delivered a product that fits when we install it.
I've delivered a product that has been known to fit by others.
I've delivered the same product shown on the pictures.
I've attempted to allow the customer a refund per our stated policy.
I've attempted to communicate to the customer our policy and our requests.
There is nothing more we can do for this customer.

OHH NOES

iTrader: (3)

And maxima owners wonder why all the good vendors stop making product for maximas...

sweetdaddygotu

iTrader: (21)

well I'm not a moderator but i believe that the customer is always right within reason!
i think think that mavssolja should see if the company in question has a list of suggested installers in his area first, and if so take it to them for installation. if not install one light completely w/ your electrician and if you are still not satisfied take pics of product installed on your vehicle and print out their pics of installed products and send them to the better bureau of business!then go down to your local small claims court and find out what your rights are first(just to see if it is actually Worth the hastle)! if so then file a claim, but ensure that you are well within the means of filling before you do so! they should have free council on the same floor or if not that there should be a few pamphlets on the matter. don't allow your self to be swayed by idled threats! good luck with what ever you decide to do!

D-Bo

iTrader: (9)

I was looking over the second pic umnitza posted and think I may see what the OP is talking about:



Which to me looks like the turn signal ring doesn't actually conform to the shape of the light (which is supposed to be the point of an angel eye right?) and since this pic is posted on the site there is a case to be made that he got what he payed for.

On the other hand, this was difficult to see without paying careful attention (since at this point we know what we are looking for) and the other pics seem to minimize your ability to see this.


OP can you confirm that this is your issue with the fitment? If it is not I'll delete this post.

philoforlife

Our headlights are not concentric circles like most headlights. They are flatened a bit. This is why no angel eye will fit perfectly and why they put them on the inside of the headlight area as opposed to the outside ring where they should be. BMW/Altima and such have perfectly round headlights; hence the fact that the ring goes right around the edge. Clearly from looking at my own headlights, and the above picture, you can see our headlights are not concentric. Thus some allowances must be made. If they were to go around the outside they would be too tall and would look odd. If you have a problem with the turn signal light, I'd tape over the constant node on the bulb so during the daytime and night there would be no top light on at all - you'd just see the angel eye and not notice the difference.

Joshua

leftfootmax

So is there any type of consensus on this product? Reading D-Bo's post:

I see exactly what he means. I don't want to say anything that gets me banned, so I wonder what does phenryiv1 think, ignoring that he dislikes angel eyes overall. To keep it civil, it seems a product is being sold that does not fit exactly, but some may tolerate the mis-alignment. If this can be confirmed, I think members of this forum should be informed. Also, it would be a shame if this set was just a bad one, and normally they fit perfect, but nobody buys them out of concern in this thread.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

Well, I hate the phrase "it is what it is," but when buying modifications for cars, as long as you know what you are getting, then it is up to a consumer to decide if that is what they want. Think of all of the body kits that "fit" but still need to be modified to really look right. Well, these angel eyes actually do FIT, but the original poster does not like the WAY that they fit. He bought them, as may other buyers, with a set of piuctures of them already installed. If the fit is what a customer wants for his vehicle, then he purchases. If not, he does not purchase. Clearly, they do FIT the vehicle- the question for customers is whether the fit and appearance are what they want.

MaXaZoR

I haven't posted on this site in a very long time, but I'd like to offer my two cents. I just had a similar issue with fitment of a bulb on a HID kit purchased from a forum vendor. While it was my belief (and also the belief of other purchaser on the forum ( that the bulbs didn't fit and needed to be modified it is still your job as the consumer to provide proof so MODs can then justify going back to the vendor for answers. You must realize that vendors are a very import part of these forums, while they provide revenue to run these types of sites, they also live and die by the new products they create and the users that buy them. Mavssolja, your burden is that you say it "doesn't fit" well then take some simple photos of your install that justify your case. If you feel that this isn't an option as in "well that would require me to remove my headlights again and install again" then your best bet is to just take the 20% stocking fee and count it as a lesson learned.

Thats just my 2 cents, I'm now a Honda Si guy so let the hate mail begin

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

Nice post. That was what I was trying to get him to do. Give me EVIDENCE. I am not about to bite the hand that feeds us without some ammunition that gives ME the reason to believe that the vendor is wrong. Even I am not convinced. Why should I challenge a vendor when I don't have enough information to believe that the vendor was wrong in the first place?

leftfootmax

Fair enough. I guess my conclusion is that the kit fits in the eyes of the beholder, meaning some will be satisfied with the fit, while others would want it to be more perfect. For future members that ask about the product, perhaps responders should say the angel eye fit is not totally perfect, but check out the pics on the website and judge for yourself. Maybe Umnitza could also tweak the product for lights that are not completely circular.

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! you can see what i am sayin with this picture, and it is still dark and the kit illuminated. Now imagine how bad it would look without it being illuminated, contrasted against a blacked out headlight, in the daytime. IT WAS HIDEOUS. I strongly beleive he is marketing this product for the 6th gen market, but it can from another vehicle in which he decided was close enough. IT IS NOWHERE NEAR AND EXACT FIT!!!, and these pictures were NOT on the damn website, becasue if i saw this i would not have purchased it. The link was posted from Um Nitza's site of the 6th gen kit and it definatly did not have pictures like this.

also notice how close the lower angel eye comes to the projector!

umnitza

iTrader: (20)

People like you are the reason stores have "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"
People like you are the reason retail establishments hire security guards.
People like you are the reason there are restocking fees that affect 99.99% of the customers we have that otherwise wouldn't be charged a restocking fee.
People like you make a retail store business less about the fun of working with customers and more about the fear of working with people like YOU.
and worst?
People like you give others the impression that acting this way is a legitimate form of communication and of getting your "way" despite you being in the wrong 100% on this. Though I suspect that the reasonable among them wouldn't act this way to begin with.

What you did is attempt to discredit our business, and failed.

------TO THE OTHERS
I appreciate every single customer that has ever emailed, called, worked out a problem in a sensible manner. What has been showcased here is beyond sensible, this is a Neanderthal, knee-jerk response from 1 customer who has an incapability of looking at links, looking at pictures, and deciding for himself how to install a product.

We do everything in our power to ensure that not only is the product properly packaged, it's also properly shipped - on time and promptly, properly supported (calls, emails, even PMs), properly documented via pictures, photos and various online resources.

This isn't complex engineering, this is putting 2 rings inside of one housing. But we make every effort to make sure you know it's going to work and we help you every step of the way.

If some of you have seen this thread, you will realize three things:
1) The customer "decided" he didn't want to do it.
2) The customer was provided ample opportunity to come to a sensible conclusion privately.
3) The vendor performed every duty set forth in the policies the customer checked prior to purchasing the product.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

Please no posts by anyone until I get some information. Let's put the public discussion on hold for now. If someone has something that they feel is important, please PM it to me.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

edit: sorry pat.

MoMax00

ROFLMAO, are you serious ^^ you are canceling the warranty of the product so that he has problems selling it??? Are you out of your mind? I own a business as well and i can assure you, you are in no position to cancel warranty of a product that the customer does not like because he feels it does not seem to fit properly. You my friend have some stones to pull a stunt like that expecually publicly on the forums, if anything you are only going to hurt your business with that single line there, you already have my head turned, and im sure many others as well.

Little tip about business, customers always right... If he felt it didnt fit right there should be no reason why he cannot return them, and no i dont mean return them losing nearly 60$ plus shipping... Sure charge a restocking fee and have him pay shipping but damn don't try rape people.

All in all, both customer and vendor handled this situation wrong.