Holy Hell!

Not sure if this was addressed because I am too lazy to read the entire thread, but its been noted by Sharif @ ForgedInternals (my350z.com Forums) that when running the EU in conjunction with the J & S, you leave all timing duties up to the J & S and tune A/F ratio maps with the EU. Makes sense to me as the J & S will retard timing to the point it detects slight detonation which gives you the most but safest amount of timing to run for a boosted application. Therefore, you will not be retarding too much timing which will result in a loss of power.

need more videos!!!! do u have any dyno videos?

woooooooooooooow. i'm speechless. great job man.

Doeeittt or are you ***** !!




*cough* Black Rob will soon be 3.5!!

That's amazing, man. With any boosted application, it is quite tricky to get the car running right. Even in a common application (turbo b-series Honda), there are pesky things that always prevent that from happening.

You are a pioneer. Not many have ventured this way, but you have done well by going this seldom-traveled route. Keep up the good work.

didn't mardigrasmax have the fastest 4th gen? wasn't he putting like 20+ psi down with the 3.5?

anyways, nice job it looks like fun and seems to be what you desired!

Man that is impressive. I am glad somebody picked up where i left off and finished this project. Kinda makes me depressed since i had to give up on my car when i did this. I your exact setup except i was going to use nismo cams but could never get everything to work together. I eventually just gave up and got the car running with just the 3.5 w/ stock vq30 cams and sold the car.

Very nice work!!!

428 at 13 psi? you would have more torque with a turbo right? is that vq35 built? you would have like 500 hp at that boost level on a turbo and like 490 torque too. you dont think? I mean i put down 393 whp and like 385 torque (or more) at 10 psi , if i put race gas i can make 430 at 12 -13 psi on my vq30 I assumed that the vq35's break at like 9 psi????

Only thing he has internally is ARP rod bolts. I told you meng, thats all you need to go happy with boost on the 3.5 (at reasonable streetable levels of course, 15 psi might be another story). Its holding 420whp+ on 13psi pretty good on his car.

Meximax, dont you still have the laughin gas hooked up? How big is your shot and how often do you use it? Have you ever dyno'd the boost WITH the nitrous?

i dont know, sc is not going to make the same power as turbo, so i would like to see a 3.5 on turbo before i become a believer of the arp bolts only. 13 psi on a 3.5 should make alot more power than 420 whp..any one boosting a 3.5 turbo?????

This is true. With a properly sized turbo one should be able to match this 428whp # with lower boost. But then again, how much power do you need!?! lol

I know for what YOU want to do this is "minimal output", but for the average person that doesnt want to go through the hassle of building a motor, just using ARP rod bolts is proven to work so far with meximax at his boost level on a s/c (DISCLAIMER- assuming the motor is in excellent working condition- good compression, proper ignition and a/f tuning etc...)

ill wait for you to do it on a turbo, then ill go a head and follow. that car has to fly with all the power. 13 psi , that is nice, how long has that car been on boost?

I found this interesting thread for u alvaro and eddy. http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=161227

Solenoids still on, but not spraying for a couple of reasons:

First, traction is a problem. With boost only, a third gear punch at 70mph will spin the tires about 90% of the time, and it will keep wanting to spin all through the end of 3rd gear. Furthermore, it’s not that easy to keeping it the lane. I feel like the VLSD sends a bit more power to one wheel, then the other, and back. You really have to fight with it.

Second, I am trying to be a bit gentle with my VLSD. I am putting twice as much torque through it than what it was designed for. I am sure that I will break it if I spray.

A six speed conversion is in the works. I will re-dyno then and maybe spray a small 35 shot to cool my charge down and up the torque.

Hey streetz that is a very good link!

Also meximax, hard to keep the car in the lane huh? lol why does this sound familiar? (obviously its alot worse for you being blown than it is for me NA, but I could only imagine). a 6spd HLSD would be sweet.... if they werent so hard to find

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n
What kind of numbers can you expect on the stock longblock with about 12~PSI of boost, and is this practical, and is 93octane sufficient? Ill start checking out the archives, I didnt know this part of the forum existed...


"well, you can expect to see in the 520 range with this, but I must warn you that 12 psi is very very dangerous on the stock block - I personally wouldn't go above 10 without serious engine management to support it"
__________________

this is coming froma guy pushing 423 and 378 torque on a supercharger. this is a nice link streetz. Eddie, turbo you will break the motor IMO, and you would make above 500 at 12-13 psi. but ill wait for you to do it,lol lol
this guy is also on a charger , claims that turbo vs charger is way diff ball game, and it boils down not to boost, but power, which you can get away with 12 psi on charger, but highly doubt it on turbo.

can you run anything different then EMANAGE. Is the ECU different from the 350z?

Your making it sound as if the EU is the one running this engine. the EU is just an ubber advanced piggyback. Yes the ECU is different from the 350Z, he's running a JWT-programmed 4th gen (95-99) Maxima ECU, with the EU for tunning.

I agree. How much power do you need in a maxima. Mardigras hit about 450 @ 15 or 16 whp. This may sound inaccurate compared to meximax's 426 @ 13 PSI on a supercharger but if I am not mistaken Mardi has his ECU fine tuned by JWT which includes a retard in timing. Meximax is not retarding timing which is why he has good numbers at 13 PSI supercharged. Lastly, seeing his dyno graph, is setup is tight. I see a lot of TT 350Z dynos that are not this impressive in terms of the curve.

For those that think that it is impossible to reach numbers above 400whp without building the internals, think again. Most of these dumb Z guys that throw s/c'ers or big turbos on their Z's don't know crap about tuning. When it comes to VQ's, it is really all in the tuning, no matter what setup (FI or N/A) that you are running.

Before hal sold his car, he reached an astronomical number in his VQ30, he was around mid 500'sWHP and 603TQ. Most people will say that the VQ35 is NOWHERE as strong as the VQ30. I'm beginning to rethink that notion. It may not be as strong, but it is certainly very close.

Mabye neal will come in here and chime in on what his car is currently running.

Regardless, very nice numbers Meximax. I'm hoping to get my car running well soon (EU is messed up) and get some good N/A times before I go boost.

Thats not true. The VQ35 IS stronger than the VQ30. The rods are made of vanadium steel. The reason the VQ30 stands up to boost easier is because of its incredibly oversquare design. Piston speeds is what blows engines. At 7000 the VQ30 is seeing the same piston speeds than a VQ35 at 6200.

If you were to keep the redline at 6500 for a stock VQ30 under boost, and 5700-5800 or so on the VQ35, the 3.5L would strain less. Its the big stroke of the VQ35 that causes violent torque and makes the motor easier to break. At equal piston speeds the VQ35 is stronger than the VQ30.

Ill also point out that even with the 81.4 mm stroke VS the VQ30s 73.3 mm stroke, at least 2 Z guys have reached 550WHP on a stock motor, and someone even put down 619RWHP on the dyno.

So the myth that the VQ30 is stronger than the VQ35 is just that, a myth. Thats why the VQ32 makes so much sense: everything thats better on the 3.5, with the super short stroke of the VQ30.

well i dont think 4-5 guys that make the power proves anything. vs 100 that have blown , I may not really know why the vq30 holds more abuse than the vq35, but doesnt that statement make it "stronger", or its the type of metal used for rods that make it stronger?? I am sure tuned the numbers are attainable, but reliability is not going to be there.So wait, if a say that i used better materials in one engine (1) than in engine (2), but the design or a particular aspect of the engine (stroke or piston speed) makes my better engine (1) take less abuse than engine (2), which engine is stronger???? I think the one that takes more abuse, whatever the case ,maybe on the parts used. I rather have cast iron rods in a motor that can withold consistant abuse at 12-14 psi, than strong quality rods in a motor that cannot handle that type of abuse, making the overall engine a WEAKER engine.

Hal's car isn't a good example at all. He blew quite a few engines, kept his revs down to 6000 RPM, ran rich as hell (9-10:1 AFR), sprayed nitrous along with boost etc. When a VQ30 can handle 500+ WHP consistently with ONLY boost and a proper tune then we're talking. It has been done on a VQ35. The GT motorsports TT G35C made 518WHP consistently @ 12 PSI on 93 octane fuel with no nitrous or water/meth injection. The engine didn't let go until they turned the boost up to 14 PSI (~550WHP) and decided to go road racing with it. It didn't blow right away though. They raced it hard @ 14 PSI all day and it took it like a champ. It blew when he decided hit 140 MPH on the straight in the final session and rev'd it out to 6800 RPM. At lower revs it held up fine. The tune, of course, was on point. Simple mechanical failure at that point.

This is just one example. There are quite a few other ~500+ WHP all-boost stock internal 3.5's. The "3.5's are weaker under boost than 3.0's" bandwagon can keep on rolling as far as i'm concerned. Furthermore, the 3.5 will always have a broader powerband PSI for PSI due to not only its geometry but also due to the superior heads.

psi for psi ,i dont think anyone is arguing which engine will make more power. that is a proven given, but y dont you guys call sgp, in texas who have a whole lo of experience with vq's, and ask them if they think its safe to put a turbo on a vq35 at 12 psi, i dont think they will recommend it. Yeah a 3.5 will make a lot more power than a vq30 at the same boost levels, besides boost is just what the gauge reads which does not get into the chamber, cant base sole only boost. ill wait to see a stock vq35 run 12 psi turbo boost, driven daily for a while (yrs) , like we have seen our vq30's do. until then i would say spend some money and drop in rods and pistons, which i think they recommend for upto 600 whp anyways before having to sleeve the block. so go upto 600 with eagles and lower comp pistons??? that would be safe i think. I have seen , more than 5 blown 350z's in a nissan shop, where my buddy is the forman, and they probably thought it was safe.lol Ok then maybe no in in miami knows how to tune???

PSI for PSI more air will get into the combustion chambers in a VQ35 due to superior head design. I understand that CFM at different boost levels is what really matters but i was just eliminating the turbo as a variable.
You know, as well as i, that PSI doesn't really mean much in terms of power generation. Depending on turbo size a VQ30 @ 12 PSI could possibly be making less than 400 WHP. Either way, the only documented stock 500+ WHP VQ30 4th gen blew engines left and right.
Whether or not a stock block'd VQ can handle 600WHP, it applies to both the VQ30 and VQ35.
Sure. It seems 600 WHP on a 3.5 is safe with forged pistons and rods on an unsleeved block from what i've seen. This is assuming ARP head studs and HKS head gasket are used, of course.
The 350Z ECU runs alot of timing advance at high RPM. Unless it's retarded, BOOM! Also some 350Z's suffer from scattered ignition timing due to noise in the crank angle sensor wire. This causes the spark plug to fire at inopportune times and BOOM! It's such a big issue that the APS TT kit includes a shielded crank angle wire. Maybe some other kits include it as well, not sure.

I mean to say that i would wait to see a vq35 run a turbo set up at good psi for a while, again, 3.0 will not run the same hp as 3.5 ever, boost to boost. then again the engine made more power to begin wih so, a vq30 had like what 220 and a vq35 like 305 or something , not too clear, but then if i can get 390 reliable whp , and a vq35 can get maybe 450 reliable whp... on turbo. i still see more of a reliable increase in the vq30.with race gas i am sure a vq30 (my setup) can run 440 too, but that is another ball game. I love the vq35, dont get me wrong, not too much into the design bc of time, but i have raced a altima with a vq35, and he made he power i made at 11 psi (old set up)with only 8.5 psi, with about the same turbo, but he didnt want to go higher in boost. the potential in the 3.5 is muc more, but its also a bigger motor.The heads flow more, im sure, but i think more cubes is more power period. I have pinged the **** out of my old motor, bc the boost controller may vary and also depending on the load of the car and the speed or wind resistance but it never broke. besides i dont think too many people are melting or cracking pistons, which i think is what happends from too mch timing, i think the rods are failing or rod bolts, etc.

dude no one is arguing what engine will make more power, maybe its just a bit more reliable stock.

The arguement about which will make more power PSI for PSI is a fool's arguement, and isn't my point. I've yet to see anything conclusive that says definitively that the VQ30 is more reliable under boost. That's all i'm saying.

well , maybe it could be that there are just more boosted 3.0s around for now so we think they are more reliable. we will see what happends when maxima guys start boosting (turbo) 3.5 and run them for years at 10-12 psi set ups. but i dont have a 3.5 so i cant really say the rods suck, or that they are definitely weaker than vq30 rods. I may have a bias opinion bc all 5 z's i have seen blown have been rod issues.

What about the rods exactly? Spun rod bearings? Failed rod bolts? Bent rods?

its not a surprise that a rod would fail first. if something is going to blow in an engine, the rods are up near the top of the list of things to go first

That along with ring land breakage and head gasket failure.

I doubt any of those 5 Zs had ARP rod bolts. For the 130$ they cost and what little time it takes to take off the big oil pan, they are worth it. I would DEFINATELY try that before spending thousands on a built engine. If only more guys would just do ARP rod bolts while boosting. Crossmember, motor mounts, 6 bolts. Lower oil pan, then upper oil pan, then you change the bolts, repeat same process in reverse. Cheap cheap cheap

I understand the general concern for the mechanical limits of the VQ35's components, but in our 4th Gen world, I am sure that the A32 5-speed will go well before the engine does.

Theres an unwritten rule that says that no matter what maxima you own, the tranny WILL go before the engine. 5-speed = Glass.

i second that opinion. thats why i sold the 3.5 i was about to drop rods n and pistons into, and just got a fresh 3.0 to drop in. bc yeah i would be making a lot more power but the tranny was still an issue. that sucks doesnt it.. has anyone heard about a pin inside he diff that actually slips out and causes all the damage??

very nice one

and can u saied what's exactly mod's ?

damn, like that video bro