My First Dyno
01-24-2009, 08:22 PM
#1
My First Dyno
This is the first time I've ever dynoed anything I've ever owned. Some guys over on nycnissans.com put together a dyno day so I decided I'd go to see where I'm at...to be honest I was expecting a but more...but ehhh..
I drove from Bronx to Brooklyn to Long Island ...swapped out the ECU for a 98 ECU that I just got and no tune. I'm not sure what effects that might have on the numbers since I've never done this before.
I am interested to get opinions from you guys and wondering how I can improve before I S/C the car. I want to get the most out the motor N\A before I boost it.
P.S. please keep the b.s comments to yourself...I'm looking to see what I can do to improve not here to argue with anyone (flame suit on lolz)
As for mods I have a 5 spd swap, 00vi with a vafc, revup injectors, h/i/e. no cat.
Motor ha 126k
Run 1 Max Power 149.91 Max Tq. 178.78
Run 2 Max Power 158.41 Max Tq. 182.98
Run 3 Max Power 164.96 Max Tq. 183.46
Uncorrected Smoothing 5 (I have no idea what this means lol)
Right when the 00vi opens up is where the most power is made as you can see it dips down I know this was going to happen he asked on the third run if I wanted to adjust anything, I should have since I knew when it opens it tends to dip down.
I just wanted to see what I would put down without a tune as a base to see where I start at and what a good tune would do.
I drove from Bronx to Brooklyn to Long Island ...swapped out the ECU for a 98 ECU that I just got and no tune. I'm not sure what effects that might have on the numbers since I've never done this before.
I am interested to get opinions from you guys and wondering how I can improve before I S/C the car. I want to get the most out the motor N\A before I boost it.
P.S. please keep the b.s comments to yourself...I'm looking to see what I can do to improve not here to argue with anyone (flame suit on lolz)
As for mods I have a 5 spd swap, 00vi with a vafc, revup injectors, h/i/e. no cat.
Motor ha 126k
Run 1 Max Power 149.91 Max Tq. 178.78
Run 2 Max Power 158.41 Max Tq. 182.98
Run 3 Max Power 164.96 Max Tq. 183.46
Uncorrected Smoothing 5 (I have no idea what this means lol)
Right when the 00vi opens up is where the most power is made as you can see it dips down I know this was going to happen he asked on the third run if I wanted to adjust anything, I should have since I knew when it opens it tends to dip down.
I just wanted to see what I would put down without a tune as a base to see where I start at and what a good tune would do.
01-24-2009, 08:34 PM
#4
That's what I thought to be honest...I thought I shoulda put down more...I don't know we'll see after I do a few tweaks here and there.
KS knock sensor?...I haven't changed since I bought the car with 115k a lil over a year ago...I have a new one that I was going to put it ...but it's kinda cold up here lol.
KS knock sensor?...I haven't changed since I bought the car with 115k a lil over a year ago...I have a new one that I was going to put it ...but it's kinda cold up here lol.
01-24-2009, 08:38 PM
#5
so you havent changed the ks at all, meaning you dont know when/if it has ever been changed?? that would be my guess to be honest then if thats true. my stock 5 speed made 150whp/170wtq with a bad knock sensor. so those are pretty close to your numbers, plus throw in im assuming you're running pretty rich with those injectors. yeah, change that thing ASAP, and you'll probably gain close to 30 whp probably.
BTW: can you show the AFR curve?
BTW: can you show the AFR curve?
Last edited by MaximaSpd85; 01-24-2009 at 08:42 PM.
01-24-2009, 08:43 PM
#6
I don't think the knock sensor was changed at all before I bought the car...I'm probably going to see if I can get into a friend garage and change that out.
I'm getting a wideband for valentines =) ...I'm trying to get her to spend a lil more and get something that datalogs.
I'm getting a wideband for valentines =) ...I'm trying to get her to spend a lil more and get something that datalogs.
01-24-2009, 11:40 PM
#8
Anybody with an 00VI on a 5-speed car should have no problem getting to 200 WHP tuned, but untuned you should still at the very least be in the 170 to 180 WHP range with a really rich A/F mix.
What kind of fuel setup do you have on your swap? Please tell me DE-K injectors with no tune
Also, as MaximaSpd85 said, I would make sure your knock sensor is still healthy. Do you have any codes currently? Also, it would help to see the RPM range on your dyno sheet. Is it possible for you to rescan or take a new picture of it that shows the whole thing? Oh, and one more thing: what is your RPM switch set to?
Last edited by Tatanko; 01-24-2009 at 11:42 PM.
01-25-2009, 12:54 AM
#9
I made 170 WHP/180 WTQ a couple months ago on a damp, rainy day with just a y-pipe basically on a Land & Sea dyno which reads quite low compared to, say, a Dynojet.
Anybody with an 00VI on a 5-speed car should have no problem getting to 200 WHP tuned, but untuned you should still at the very least be in the 170 to 180 WHP range with a really rich A/F mix.
What kind of fuel setup do you have on your swap? Please tell me DE-K injectors with no tune Also, as MaximaSpd85 said, I would make sure your knock sensor is still healthy. Do you have any codes currently? Also, it would help to see the RPM range on your dyno sheet. Is it possible for you to rescan or take a new picture of it that shows the whole thing? Oh, and one more thing: what is your RPM switch set to?
Anybody with an 00VI on a 5-speed car should have no problem getting to 200 WHP tuned, but untuned you should still at the very least be in the 170 to 180 WHP range with a really rich A/F mix.
What kind of fuel setup do you have on your swap? Please tell me DE-K injectors with no tune
Also, as MaximaSpd85 said, I would make sure your knock sensor is still healthy. Do you have any codes currently? Also, it would help to see the RPM range on your dyno sheet. Is it possible for you to rescan or take a new picture of it that shows the whole thing? Oh, and one more thing: what is your RPM switch set to?I'm running revup injectors/walbro fuel pump...I felt like something was wrong as soon as they gave me the sheet...even untuned I felt like I should have been put down a lil better...I'm going to try and swap out the KS this week comming...hopefully I can get my wideband a lil earlier and see what happens...
I did have codes on the ecu for a fuel pump realy module and something about fuel injectors BUT that was on a 97 ECU...I swapped in a 98 ECU right before the dyno..That code was for a 97 Max 98s don't have FPCM..or rather it's in the ECU from what I understand.
A lil over 5k is when it dips down after the 00vi open then rises as it's going to 6k
Last edited by MaXiM@KiD; 01-25-2009 at 12:56 AM.
01-25-2009, 07:45 AM
#10
If what you're telling me is true about the lines, you're activating your RPM switch at 4000 RPM, not 5000. Around 5000 is where it needs to be, and the fact that you have this massive dip in the powerband after it activates just confirms that theory. If you activate it too early, it will indeed cause a loss of power because the manifold needs to remain closed until 5000 for optimal delivery of air. It isn't until 5000 that it's "needs" change. You said that "when the 00VI opens up is when the most power is made", which is also what leads me to believe you're mistaken about when it's activating. It isn't making that power because the 00VI is opening, it's making that power because there's a slight delay from the exact RPM the switch activates until when the 00VI actually opens, and what you're seeing is the 00VI flowing air properly in the ~4000 RPM range and then all the sudden it opens up and you bog it down for about 1000 RPM, pretty much.
Also, according to those lines you only dyno'd until 5500 RPM
Why would you do that? The absolute best power in an 00VI equipped car *should* be post-5000 RPM and that's where you stopped, which also helps explain the poor numbers. Simply reconfiguring the RPM switch to activate about 1000 RPM later and then dyno'ing all the way to the 6500 RPM fuel cut would probably have netted you at LEAST another 10 WHP peak as well as a much better looking, smoother powerband.
Beyond the activation and dyno run issues, you almost certainly are DUMPING fuel into your engine at this point untuned. A larger fuel pump is totally unnecessary at this power level and unless your stocker doesn't work I would put it back in. That should cut down a little. After that, you NEED to get something to tune with because it would still probably be running pretty rich. Ideally, get an emanage or something that you can adjust ignition timing with as well and you should have no problem hitting 200 WHP (assuming it's a dyno that reads higher and not one that reads low like the one I use).
Also, according to those lines you only dyno'd until 5500 RPM
Why would you do that? The absolute best power in an 00VI equipped car *should* be post-5000 RPM and that's where you stopped, which also helps explain the poor numbers. Simply reconfiguring the RPM switch to activate about 1000 RPM later and then dyno'ing all the way to the 6500 RPM fuel cut would probably have netted you at LEAST another 10 WHP peak as well as a much better looking, smoother powerband.Beyond the activation and dyno run issues, you almost certainly are DUMPING fuel into your engine at this point untuned. A larger fuel pump is totally unnecessary at this power level and unless your stocker doesn't work I would put it back in. That should cut down a little. After that, you NEED to get something to tune with because it would still probably be running pretty rich. Ideally, get an emanage or something that you can adjust ignition timing with as well and you should have no problem hitting 200 WHP (assuming it's a dyno that reads higher and not one that reads low like the one I use).
01-25-2009, 08:00 AM
#11
I upgraded to a walbro because I'm prepping the car for a s/c....the injectors I got them for cheap and swapped them in because I was looking for a misfire and it was a dead injector.
Here's a better picture....The verry first line where the chart begins is 1k ...00vi opens at 5k sorry for the bad pics I don't have a scanner and my sis has the digi.
BTW It was a dynojet that was used
Here's a better picture....The verry first line where the chart begins is 1k ...00vi opens at 5k sorry for the bad pics I don't have a scanner and my sis has the digi.
BTW It was a dynojet that was used
01-25-2009, 08:02 AM
#12
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Check KS
Check that the vias cup isn't stripped, and during the runs check to make sure it is staying open up top.
Specifically tell the dyno operator to bang the limiter, not saying he wasn't (I can't tell) but alot of times you have to specifically tell them to go WOT until they hit the limiter because they're afraid you'll get pissed.
TUNE TUNE TUNE!
Check that the vias cup isn't stripped, and during the runs check to make sure it is staying open up top.
Specifically tell the dyno operator to bang the limiter, not saying he wasn't (I can't tell) but alot of times you have to specifically tell them to go WOT until they hit the limiter because they're afraid you'll get pissed.
TUNE TUNE TUNE!
01-25-2009, 08:06 AM
#14
Check KS
Check that the vias cup isn't stripped, and during the runs check to make sure it is staying open up top.
Specifically tell the dyno operator to bang the limiter, not saying he wasn't (I can't tell) but alot of times you have to specifically tell them to go WOT until they hit the limiter because they're afraid you'll get pissed.
TUNE TUNE TUNE!
Check that the vias cup isn't stripped, and during the runs check to make sure it is staying open up top.
Specifically tell the dyno operator to bang the limiter, not saying he wasn't (I can't tell) but alot of times you have to specifically tell them to go WOT until they hit the limiter because they're afraid you'll get pissed.
TUNE TUNE TUNE!
Sup Kev...that's the tranny you sold me in there LoL.
Yes it's a lil warm out today I might jump into this KS in a bit.....Vadim is tuning now so we might have a session next week sometime to see if we can figure something out....
Yea he let off when he go to 6k..after my tweaks I'm going to take it back and tell him to take it up to 6.5k
How do you check if the cup is stripped?
01-25-2009, 08:19 AM
#15
Interesting. I swear the powerband makes sense with the problems I listed if it were shifted 1k RPM to the right.
Anyway, to check your VIAS cup you'll have to remove the VIAS from the manifold. It's just 4 bolts/screws that hold it on. Did you not ever do the VIAS cup fix like everyone recommends?
Also, KRRZ, I think you may be onto something with the reverse operation theory. It makes perfect sense to me if you really study the curve. Right as 5000 is approaching it would finally be getting into it's efficiency range (manifold OPEN) and then you shut it and cause a massive power loss. It's a little hard to confirm it without having dyno'd until 6500, though. If that is the true powerband until 6500 (and not just the operator letting off the throttle) then it makes sense because it would be falling on it's face at that point anyway.
Anyway, to check your VIAS cup you'll have to remove the VIAS from the manifold. It's just 4 bolts/screws that hold it on. Did you not ever do the VIAS cup fix like everyone recommends?
Also, KRRZ, I think you may be onto something with the reverse operation theory. It makes perfect sense to me if you really study the curve. Right as 5000 is approaching it would finally be getting into it's efficiency range (manifold OPEN) and then you shut it and cause a massive power loss. It's a little hard to confirm it without having dyno'd until 6500, though. If that is the true powerband until 6500 (and not just the operator letting off the throttle) then it makes sense because it would be falling on it's face at that point anyway.
Last edited by Tatanko; 01-25-2009 at 08:23 AM.
01-25-2009, 10:02 AM
#17
01-25-2009, 10:10 AM
#18
Link to site please =)
I'm looking at some widebands on ebay what do you guys think
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innov...3A1|240%3A1318
I like this one but I it doesn't datalog so unless I get an EU in there this isn't good for me
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AEM-G...3A1|240%3A1308
01-25-2009, 01:01 PM
#19
http://tatanko.boredmder.com/
Look under 00VI Swap -> The VIAS Fix. I advise replacing the four screws with some new stainless steel ones while you have them out.
I would personally go for the LC-1. They're supposed to be good units and it seems like a better value for the money.
Look under 00VI Swap -> The VIAS Fix. I advise replacing the four screws with some new stainless steel ones while you have them out.
I would personally go for the LC-1. They're supposed to be good units and it seems like a better value for the money.
01-25-2009, 01:17 PM
#20
. yeah, somethings not right, it almost looks like the curve before the dip would have gone higher than the curve after the dip did.
01-25-2009, 02:04 PM
#22
The CEL was on for fuel pump control module..I forget the code but it was because the ECU was for a 97 I swapped it in and put in a 98 right before I dynoed so there wasn't any CEL on.
01-25-2009, 02:49 PM
#23
You should call up the shop and see if they can't email you the DRFs, it's much easier to use those vs a camera phone pic.
Also the 'uncorrected' means those are the actual numbers you made right then, with no corrections for altitude, weather, etc. The 'standard' is using SAE correction.
That's with the smoothing set at 5? Hell of a line.
Also the 'uncorrected' means those are the actual numbers you made right then, with no corrections for altitude, weather, etc. The 'standard' is using SAE correction.
That's with the smoothing set at 5? Hell of a line.
01-26-2009, 12:26 PM
#25
Yeah alot of seems to be going on in that dyno and KRRZ and Tatanko said pretty much everything I was going to post. It definatly looks like the VI operation is in reverse. Also I surprised you can feel that loss in power at WOT.
01-27-2009, 07:09 AM
#26
You should call up the shop and see if they can't email you the DRFs, it's much easier to use those vs a camera phone pic.
Also the 'uncorrected' means those are the actual numbers you made right then, with no corrections for altitude, weather, etc. The 'standard' is using SAE correction.
That's with the smoothing set at 5? Hell of a line.
Also the 'uncorrected' means those are the actual numbers you made right then, with no corrections for altitude, weather, etc. The 'standard' is using SAE correction.
That's with the smoothing set at 5? Hell of a line.
On a side not..35 mins later and a scratched up hand I changed the KS although I didn't have a code for it...might be a placebo effect but I felt I had some more pep in the car felt it pull a bit smoother. Did it all without removing anything =)
Last edited by MaXiM@KiD; 01-27-2009 at 07:12 AM.
01-27-2009, 07:22 AM
#27
Your hand looks like you barely did anything! 
I keed. Mine was a bit bloodier than that at the end of a KS change, but I have pretty big hands and don't really feel pain in them anymore
Anywho, your KS shouldn't really be felt that instantly. Assuming you're filling up with 91 or 93 as you should be, it may take a couple days for the ECU to advance the timing all the way to full. Resetting it would prolong the process a bit maybe, but it might be worth it.
I keed. Mine was a bit bloodier than that at the end of a KS change, but I have pretty big hands and don't really feel pain in them anymore Anywho, your KS shouldn't really be felt that instantly. Assuming you're filling up with 91 or 93 as you should be, it may take a couple days for the ECU to advance the timing all the way to full. Resetting it would prolong the process a bit maybe, but it might be worth it.
01-27-2009, 08:03 AM
#28
Your hand looks like you barely did anything! I keed. Mine was a bit bloodier than that at the end of a KS change, but I have pretty big hands and don't really feel pain in them anymore
Anywho, your KS shouldn't really be felt that instantly. Assuming you're filling up with 91 or 93 as you should be, it may take a couple days for the ECU to advance the timing all the way to full. Resetting it would prolong the process a bit maybe, but it might be worth it.
I keed. Mine was a bit bloodier than that at the end of a KS change, but I have pretty big hands and don't really feel pain in them anymore Anywho, your KS shouldn't really be felt that instantly. Assuming you're filling up with 91 or 93 as you should be, it may take a couple days for the ECU to advance the timing all the way to full. Resetting it would prolong the process a bit maybe, but it might be worth it.
Edit Yes I use 93 also
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