bmxsteve

My friend has 2001 CL-S and we decided to run them last night. We did a roll from 20mph,(I hung in first) up to 70mph, it was just neck and neck. Then we did a run from 60mph, and around 80mph, I actually started pulling on him. Then when I shifted into 4th gear my car just stopped accelarating! It scared me to death. Tell me if this would make sense....my gas tank was on empty. I went to the gas station after this little scare and filled it up with like 16.4 gallons. I did a run to 100mph twice and it runs fine. My guess is the gas tank was so empty and hardly any gas was in the tank that the engine wasnt fed gas fast enough so it just stopped. Does that make sense? At first i thought i blew my clutch or something. But I did the 5th gear test and the clutch wasnt slipping at all. Any ideas?

MAX2000JP

Nice kill. Im sure there will be people saying "A 4th gen cannot beat a CL-S". Did your car stall when it stopped accelerating? What I think happened was that the gas was sloshing around and wasnt getting picked up by the fuel pump.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

not people.. just one person

Vyrus

iTrader: (4)

And his birthday was just a day or two ago...
-Cyrus

MAX2000JP

Let me take a wild guess...does his name start with a R and end with USS ??

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

i told him to stop calling my name on other forums.. so i will just call him Mr. Anonymous from here on out

PCGuRu2K

iTrader: (34)

Your Max can hold 18gallons of gas... Since you have an older car it might be that since you ran it almost to empty the bottom of your gas tank may have some bad deposits??

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

it happens if your on a very low tank the car will cut fuel, it happened to me once when i was almost empty, just don't race on an empty tank.

bmxsteve

Yeah I was amazed that I pulled on my friends car. He had his g/f with him and i had my huge stereo in the back so weight was pretty even. I was suprised that I started pulling at 80mph! I thoought i would have pulled earlier instead of later.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Yes that was gas starvation, has happened to me many many times. Happened to me last night infact. Fuel sloshing to the back of the tank under full throttle causes it to be missed by the fuel pump pickup a little bit, causing your engine to cut out for a second. Try to avoid this because gas starvation under WOT is not a good thing. Your car will be fine, but just don't do it over and over and over again.

korupter

hey bmxsteve, do you happen to be a member of bmxboard by any chance?

MAX2000JP

Look what I found:
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=77928

"Mr. Anonymous" is already making up excuses for the CL-S getting beat. I dont understand why he always says the CL-S driver cannot drive? How hard is it to drive an auto? All you do is mash the gas and the tranny does all the work for ya.

Dave B

Driving with little fuel is a no-no. The fuel serves as a cooling system for the pump. When drive at a very low level, you risk burning up the pump. You also risk having your fuel system pick up all the settled out crap sitting on the bottom of your gas tank.

Dave

AznWontonboy

Thats just funnny.

RussMaxManiac

You can ask Steve why its so hard to make the CL-S actually use its power. That is all I will mention.

Ants97se is fully modded and I pulled 2+ cars on him from 60-100-110. I ran many others as well. He wants to do a fun run with his variable intake now, be interesting.

purmax

his g/f fat?? or is your stereo lite?

AznWontonboy

I have no doubt that you can beat some 4th gen Manuals.. but why is it so hard for you believe that a 4th gen 5-speed can pull on a CL-S? Can you beat TheBlue's 14.2? How about Nealocs 14.4? Or other members that have ran low 14s NA? How about DaveB? Need I go on?

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

i have seen Ant's 97 5spd with CAI and Y Pipe get beaten by a chipped 2001 GTI vr6 by like 6 cars.. i think its safe to say Ant's 5spd is not one of the stronger ones.. or maybe at that time he was having some trouble.. my friend has a GTI with the same mods and i beat him all the time when i had the same mods as Ant.. ask Deezo.. he was at the pike that day..

just because Russ beat Ant doesn't mean that he is going to beat all 4th Gen 5spds.. Russ knows this.. but he is going to use his couple of wins as his Resume for beating "ALL" 4th Gen 5spds.. Thomas aka sx7r and BrokenMotor issued a challenge to Russ to run but he never took them up on that offer.. and why would he.. its called quit while you are ahead..

Some 4th Gen's can beat CL-S and some 4th Gen's can't.. you are a fool if you think any different

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

you want to see what cars are fast.. check the trap speeds.. theblue's trap speeds are not that high.. what does that say? that means he is a hell of a stand still racer.. he will kill you off the line.. theblue running a lets say 93 mph trap racing lets say a CL-S with a 96 mph trap speed.. that CL-S is going to beat him from a roll.. however bluey will have him on the start.. which means that as soon as they hit 110.. the CL-S is goign to start pulling him back.. always watch trap speed to see how fast cars are from a roll..

my cousin's GS 400 runs 14.4 @ 99 mph.. but bluey runs 14.2 .. theblue is faster? no.. bluey just launches better.. put both those cars on the highway at 60 mph.. by the time blue hits 100.. that GS will have over 6 car lenghts on him easy..

watch the WRX and S4.. the traps are real low.. so a car like the CL-S trapping at 96 mph will beat an S4 or WRX at really high speeds.. provided the CL-S gearing is good and the driver knows what he is doing..

RussMaxManiac

Ants97se lost that race to the GTI due to his clutch slipping.

That GTI runs 14.8 with a few bolt ons. He ran 15.1 stock. Go figure.

Also, Ants97se is not slow, he has beaten many other cars with his that he shouldn't. You guys assume the same thing, you beat one CL-S you win themn all. I am just saying I have yet to loose to a Maxima in my CL-S, but still waiting for the day. Why would I run SX7R or Brokenmotor because they have nos? lol plus they live 300+ miles away from me. I am not driving a distance to show someone proof which I have prooved to many down here already.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

loss is a loss.. any way you take it right? FYI my clutch was slipping also when i beat the my friends GTI

so?
i never said he was slow.. i said he is not one of the strong 5spds.. look at BriGuyMax.. he was hanging with the GTP.. i forget if he won or it was a close race.. i think he lost.. he ran him without NOS.. thats one of the strong 5spds.. like i said before.. some are strong and some are not.. i am not sure if Ant broke 14's yet.. if you know.. post it..

Thomas also told you he would drive to SA to race you.. and he did say he would run you off Nitrous.. FYI.. BrokenMotor sold his max

RussMaxManiac

I know brokenmotor sold his max, I talk to him often, same as sx7r.

I don't recall him offering to come down to race me. When he actually came down last time he didn't bring his car.

2k2kev

he must have found your link to the excuse... the thread's been deleted.

what was his reason?

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

this is as much as i can give you.. i don't know what happend after..

http://64.252.156.63/orgthreads/CLforumsthread.htm

my guess would be russ deleted the thread himself

Dave B

Ummm look at my sig. Believe me, I don't worry when I run into a CL-S/TL-S or a GS400 at the track. I've already proved that I can easily hang with all those cars, if not beat them. I'll curious to see how much my VI helped me because my car is a completely different animal now.

Dave

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

trust me.. trust me.. first hand.. once a GS 400 reaches 80 mph.. you have NO chance whats so ever.. you are going to see it disapear into the distance.. now with a VI.. i am willing to bet you should be at the back bumper sitting for a little bit..

Dave B

Hmmmm....I've raced three of them at my track and they never pulled on me after the 1/8 mile (~75mph). They never put up better trap speeds than me so I have a hard time one is going to be walking me after 80mph. I will say this though, the GS400 V8 heat soaks worse than my VQ. These guys always come out and bust off some 14.6s and 14.7s at 95-97mph and then they get slower and slower as they hot lap. I've seen the run numerous 15s.

BTW, I'm not downplaying how awesome the GS400 really is. I'm seriously considering one for my next ride.


Dave

mtrai760

iTrader: (19)

Before reading a single thread in this post, I already knew what Russ was gonna say...

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

trust me.. only an 85 shot could make me beat this car

it was like a scene from Jaws.. you just see the HID's coming up behind you and then boom.. its gone.. asks the NE Maxima owners.. a few of them have been bitten by JAWS

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (1)

I lost by 1 carlengh to 100 to the GTP with intake, pully, u-bend replace, and cat-back....he has run CONSISTANT 14.3s@97-98mph......plus I was on 1 step colder plugs at the time.

I have a video of the race....but no way to get it on the computer...

For the record...I have NEVER lost to a CL-S or TL-S....I DID have one CL-S (probably lightly modded) hang DEAD even with me from 70-110....but that was the closest...

hokiemax

iTrader: (2)

Yes Yes very true.. 1/4 doesnt tell half the story, IMO. A stock 4th gen and a stock 5th gen prelude might have similar 1/4 slips, but the prelude will always start to walk away on high speeds.
Dave B, you are one of the most knowledgable guys on the board. You should know GS400 will kick our butt after 80,90mph!!

AznWontonboy

Sprinty, You are correct about that low trap speed for Blue's 14.2. BUT i'm still willing to bet that by 110mph the CL-S's third gear will be low balling the Russ.. Personally I think that Blue can beat a CL-S.














Yes CL-Ss will work me

Dave B

Well seeing I've raced THREE of them at my track and they don't post better trap speeds than myself by the end of the 1/4 mile, I have hard time one will be walking me after 80mph. I do 76-77mph in the 1/8 and so do they, I do 96-97mph in the 1/4 mile and so do they. Who's walking who? Now I've got the VI installed and I'm eagerly awaiting some more runs with these guys at the track. Maybe my track is slow because I've never seen a GS400 come remotely close to a lower 14. They're running 14.6+ here in Kansas City (which is very respectable for a heavy cruiser sedan).


Dave

MAX2000JP

Dave you need to go find yourself a GS400/430 to run. BriGuyMax has a GS430 and I raced him out of the light a while back. It wasnt pretty! I got a car length on him through first, but then he just embarassed me. It was probably like 3-4 carlengths by 100. Now my car traps at 95 mph with my heavy 17s on. Both times I have been to the track it was 90 degrees and almost 95% humidity. Im sure when I go in the fall my traps should be a little higher. The GS 430 is a highway monster and I have witnessed one take out a WS6.

SteVTEC

Russ, STOP POSTING IN THESE THREADS!!

Same ****, Different Day

And yes, the reason Cracura's cannot fully utilize their power is because Honduh/Cracura is too bone headedly stupid to put manuals in more of their cars. You run what ya brung.

A manual Maxima, even a lowly 4th Gen, is perfectly capable of beating a CL-S autotragic no matter how much you want to deny that it can happen.

EF-9

That's why Minima is a God's Chariot Car! Even with only 190, 225, 255 hp will beat F16 jet fighter! Oh wait, atleast you need a y-pipe to put major jet lengths on those jetfighters.. Before you post you should take a look at the new Accord and new CL-S (6spd) you think?! I guess you feel bone headedly stupid by saying that! Hahahahahha!

straight six

the point of Steve's post was that both 4th gen and 5th gen Maximas, can hang with and sometimes beat the TLS/CLS autos. Why is this soooo hard to believe. Power to weight, gear ratios, etc have all been compared hundreds of times in the past, these cars are pretty evenly matched performance wise so get over it. Also the new Accord is not here so its pretty irrelevant to this discussion. I can pull 6-10 cars on a 7th gen Accord from a stop or a roll because it doesn't exist yet.
So I would suggest you save those flames, the specs I read say only 212 lb/ft of torque for the new Accord V6 and since it ain't getting any lighter, it will prolly still get walked by a nicely modded 4th gen 5spd, and a 2k2+ 6-spd will completely own it.

PS, I'm not a Honda hater, I own a Maxima and an Accord, just tired of these completely worthless threads...............

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps you should research before putting your foot in your mouth. When you see SteVTEC's sig, referencing the J30, VQ30, 'yota's V6, etc., you should probably ask yourself "I wonder why Steve has his opinions....are they based on fact or internet stories?"

Here's your answer (all posts made by Steve):



It allows it to run a castrated fuel economy/emissions cam profile down low below 3500rpm (translation: ZERO POWER), and then a "normal" cam profile up top for decent performance. But because it's "VTEC", it convinces Honda owners that it is for performance when it is REALLY just for fuel economy and emissions...

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Well, I was long a skeptic of a 240HP Accord V6 from a 3.0 engine, but it's in most mags now so it's probably accurate. Here's the scoop:

3.0L SOHC VTEC V6
240 HP @ 6250 rpm
215 lb-ft @ 5000rpm

Basically it looks like a scaled down Acura Type-S V6 engine MINUS the variable intake manifold so the low-end probably won't be NEARLY as good as it could be, depending on what Honda decides to do on the cam's. The cam's on the current J30A1 V6 are castrated for emissions and mileage. Hopefully Honda won't do this again...

With this configuration, the 03 Accord is NOT going to outperform an 03 Maxima or an 02-03 Altima. The VQ35DE has a TON more torque, and the Nissan cars are pretty light so they will probably be able to out-accelerate the new Accord V6. But who knows. If Honda puts a 5AT in the car they might be able to make up for the torque deficit with more aggressive gearing.

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I ran some performance numbers for the new AV6 in CarTest2000 just in case anybody is interested...

For the AV6 I ran it with some "jacked" gear ratios from the JDM Avancier. It has a 5AT with much more evenly spaced ratios than the current 5AT in the TL/CL cars. It's also based on the Accord platform so I just used these ratios. I also increased the weight of the car to 3400lb. The current Accord V6 weighs in at 3300lb, and the new one is supposed to be "bigger and more powerful" so that usually means a weight increase, too. I also modified the 2k Maxima model to 2k2 specs and an auto tranny, so here are the results.

02-03 Maxima auto vs. "hypothetical" 03 AV6 5AT

Max 0-60: 6.53
AV6 0-60: 7.27

Max 1/4 mile: 14.88 @ 95
AV6 1/4 mile: 15.69 @ 92

Max 30-50: 3.01s
AV6 30-50: 3.26s

Max 50-70: 3.19s
AV6 50-70: 5.47s

Max 70-90: 5.60s
AV6 70-90: 5.78s

==========

I think this model for the new 03 AV6 is pretty accurate, but it is definitely not final. The problem the car already has is significant weight and very little torque. The car will be much more dangerous from a roll than it will be from a stop because of the 5AT (if this is what it really has) but it will still probably be a dog off the line. The 246 lb-ft of the Max/Alty along with the lighter weight will allow it to accelerate a good bit harder than the 03 AV6.

I have some gear ratios from the 6spd CL-S that I put into this AV6 model too, but the CL-S gear ratios are setup for a 7000rpm redline and I'm pretty sure this AV6 engine will have the standard 6300rpm redline so the ratio's didn't work at all. I'll keep my eyes peeled, though.

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I have no reason to BS because I have no real bias other than preferring Japanese cars. Just look at my sig. I've bought a Honda, Nissan, and a Toyota all in the past year and a half. I just state things like they are.

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Just for curiosity's sake, I ran this hypothetical 03 AV6 model with a shia load more torque and a wider powerband.

I increased the torque from 215 @ 5000rpm to 246 @ 3500rpm

The torque matches the VQ35DE. I know the VQ's are "rated" for 246 lb-ft @ 4400rpm, but if you look at the dyno plots they actually make peak torque down as low as 3500rpm, so setting the peak torque down here makes the model a little more accurate, IMO.

AV6 #1 = 240HP @ 6250rpm, 215 lb-ft @ 5000rpm
AV6 #2 = 240HP @ 6250rpm, 246 lb-ft @ 3500rpm

0-30: 2.82, 2.39
0-60: 7.27, 6.62
0-100: 18.54, 17.56
1/4 mile: 15.69 @ 92.06, 15.16 @ 93.85
Street Start, 5-60mph: 7.43, 6.66
30-50 mph: 3.26, 2.72
50-70 mph: 5.47, 4.44
70-90 mph: 5.78, 5.25

Now if you compare that with the Max above, more torque would definitely make the new AV6 a MUCH more formidable opponent to any Maxima or Alty 3.5 owner.

Torque ownz j00

So to anybody considering the new 03 Accord V6, especially if you want performance, I think your needs are going to be MUCH better served by Nissan. This looks to be just another torqueless Honda.

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Well like I said before, this looks pretty much like a scaled down Acura Type-S V6 engine minus the variable intake manifold. The Acura engine responds VERY WELL to mods, but the current AV6 engine does not, mainly due to tight emissions control and econo-tuned/restricted engine management, and castrated cams. Most guys, even with full bolt-on mods have not been able to gain more than 20 HP at the wheels. Using external engine management such as a Unichip really opens up the engine...for an additional $1000.

To get 215 lb-ft out of a 3.0 they probably had to bump up the compression ratio for sure, but I'm not sure if that will mean higher octane fuel will be required. They'll probably pull the BS stunt they've been pulling lately and say only 87 is "required" but 91 is "recommended" for "best peformance", meaning that to make the rated power you need 91.

Peak torque is at 5000rpm. There is no variable intake manifold, to save costs. The low-end is going to suck. It looks to me like Honda tuned this engine to such an extreme extent for high-end power (just to match the Alty's VQ35 240 HP) that they are going to end up sacrificing any and all low/mid-range power to get there

This is not advanced technology. It's simply tuning an engine to one extreme end just to get a higher horsepower figure. Anybody can do that, but then your driveability goes down the toilet.

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Yeah, nevermind the fact that the Altima will enjoy SUPERIOR torque, a much wider and more useable powerband, and nevermind the fact that this Honda engine is going to be so peaky up high, and so useless down low that everybody that owns it thinking it'll be as fast as an Altima 3.5 is just going to be disappointed.

This is the same damned thing they did on the last Accord V6 engine. They sacrificed any and all low/mid-range power just to squeeze 200 HP out of it.

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Nissan made the DE-K engine a top-end screamer, but at least they were sensible enough to but a variable intake manifold in it so that it would still have a nice wide powerband and good driveability. Honda is too cheap to do this because they know their customers are too dumb to realize this and won't know the difference. You can still get engines with these nifty do-dad's that really help performance on a Honda, but then you have to pay $7k more and just buy an Acura.

With Honda you get 'perceived' performance.
With Nissan you get 'ACTUAL' performance.

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I did some more tinkering in CarTest2000 last night, and it looks as if the new Accord V6 would be faster with the Nissan 222HP VQ30DE-K engine than it would be with this peaky, torqueless, powerbandless, 240HP engine they're putting in it.

I went from a 3.0L Honda J30A1 to a 3.0L Nissan VQ30DE. It's 3.0 vs 3.0.

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I'm telling you from direct experience, that Honda V6 is *nothing* compared to the VQ30DE/DE-K engines in terms of torque. Yes, having a car that's 300 lb lighter and a 5spd can bias my opinion too, but even the powerband is MUCH wider in the VQ than the peaky/narrow powerband in the J30A1.

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To move 3300lb cars authoritatively, you need TORQUE and a nice WIDE powerband, not just a high horsepower number. Nissan and Toyota both know this and this is what they put in their V6 cars.

Honda gives people just the opposite. High-end peaky designs with little torque and a VERY narrow powerband that does not at all match well to wide ratio automatic tranny's. But hey, Honda knows that peak horsepower nubmers is what sells car, and that most people don't know what torque is. So that's what they put in the cars. Horsepower, but no torque, but also crippled perforamnce.

And now thousands of ignorant car buyers are going to flock to Honda dealerships to buy Accord V6's because Honda will advertise that their V6 makes more HP/L than the Altima. Little do they know that the Altima 3.5 is still going to rip the new AV6 to shreds because of superior torque and powerbands.

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212 lb-ft vs 246 lb-ft. And without much low-end torque, you're still going to need the same massive prod of the accelerator to get the car moving. Automatic owners are not going to be happy if your goal is performance. Those that buy the 6spd will be MUCH happier because they'll be able to use the gearing MUCH more effectively to makeup for the lack of torque. 6spd owners will have fun chasing down Mustang GT's, but 5AT owners will once again have to sit on the sidelines.

Having owned a previous AV6 and now a Maxima, I can tell you that the AV6 is a darn boring car, IMHO. It's about as fun to drive as my fiance's Toyota Highlander (translation: not at all). The manual tranny really does make a difference, but the lack of a torquey V6 is still going to keep the grin factor down in the new Accord, IMHO.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

0wn3d..

got cliff notes?

clee130

My e-***** is 12 inches ... around!

Think about it.