Maxima 255HP vs Acura 260HP DYNO
09-21-2002, 10:35 PM
#1
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Maxima 255HP vs Acura 260HP DYNO
1) Stock Maxima 6spd dyno from NissanPerformanceMag.com (chinkzilla) +
2) Stock CL-S 6spd dyno from Astroboy at Acura-CL.com +
3) Some added dotted lines in Photoshop so that I could accurately read the dyno's +
4) Excel +
5) A bunch of free time =
I didn't realize that the VQ35's were a bit underrated on torque!
Comments? Discussion?
hehe...I wonder how long till this gets locked
2) Stock CL-S 6spd dyno from Astroboy at Acura-CL.com +
3) Some added dotted lines in Photoshop so that I could accurately read the dyno's +
4) Excel +
5) A bunch of free time =
I didn't realize that the VQ35's were a bit underrated on torque!
Comments? Discussion?
hehe...I wonder how long till this gets locked
09-21-2002, 11:35 PM
#4
I'm a little surprised that the 2k2 Max drops that much in tq and hp after 5000 RPMs....I mean, they have the VIAS System (same thing as the 4th Gen MEVI) stock.
But 255hp at the WHEEL?
Now that' confusing...I thought Nissan rated at the crank.
And Nissan advertises 255hp. That's a pleasant surprise.
IanS
But 255hp at the WHEEL?
Now that' confusing...I thought Nissan rated at the crank.
And Nissan advertises 255hp. That's a pleasant surprise.
IanS
09-21-2002, 11:48 PM
#5
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
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Originally posted by iansw
But 255hp at the WHEEL?
Now that' confusing...I thought Nissan rated at the crank.
And Nissan advertises 255hp. That's a pleasant surprise.
But 255hp at the WHEEL?
Now that' confusing...I thought Nissan rated at the crank.
And Nissan advertises 255hp. That's a pleasant surprise.
Originally posted by SteVTEC
PS, I converted both dyno's back to CRANK figures in case anyone was confused ;-)
PS, I converted both dyno's back to CRANK figures in case anyone was confused ;-)
Now I'm getting the opposite!
All you hardcore guys are so used to seeing wheel figures...hehe
09-22-2002, 12:10 AM
#6
Originally posted by SteVTEC
arrrr!!!!
hehe...I did that so that n0ob's wouldn't be confused and ask why the hell they were dynoing at only 205 HP when they were rated for 255HP.
Now I'm getting the opposite!
All you hardcore guys are so used to seeing wheel figures...hehe
arrrr!!!!
hehe...I did that so that n0ob's wouldn't be confused and ask why the hell they were dynoing at only 205 HP when they were rated for 255HP.
Now I'm getting the opposite!
All you hardcore guys are so used to seeing wheel figures...hehe
So how do you convert to crank with any accuracy? Are are you just figuring x% loss from the drivetrain?
IanS
09-22-2002, 06:15 AM
#7
Originally posted by iansw
heh...missed that part.
So how do you convert to crank with any accuracy? Are are you just figuring x% loss from the drivetrain?
IanS
heh...missed that part.
So how do you convert to crank with any accuracy? Are are you just figuring x% loss from the drivetrain?
IanS
09-22-2002, 06:28 AM
#8
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Here is my chart
This is a 4th gear pull from a stock 2k2 max and 2k3 CLS 6spd from cartest. Both use the proper weight and dyno charts I have as power curves. Suffice to say the maxima has way more lowend-midrange torque. It just needs more IM or cams to keep the power up top 
.
.
09-22-2002, 07:37 AM
#9
Re: Maxima 255HP vs Acura 260HP DYNO
Originally posted by SteVTEC
hehe...I wonder how long till this gets locked
hehe...I wonder how long till this gets locked
Otherwise, quite an interesting post......As I suspected, the J32A2s actually have decent torque that's fairly flat. Impressive.
I'm a little surprised the VQ35 tops out overall.......Honda's better ability to reduce drivetrain loss probably makes this more neck and neck, except for the torque thing. But if you keep it at 6k, then it doesn't matter.
09-22-2002, 08:09 AM
#10
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
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I used the same 0.83 correction factor between both the Acura and the Nissan to flame proof it from Acura folks if they saw that I used a higher correction factor for the Nissan than for the Acura and started complaining..hehe. If you look closely, you'll see that the Maxima's curve doesn't quite reach 255 HP, and the Acura actually exceeds 260 HP slightly.
Realistically I should have used 0.804 for the Maxima and 0.834 for the Acura. So yes, the curve is a bit pessimistic for the Maxima, but using the higher correction factor wouldn't have significantly changed how the chart looked. Hmm...I'll play with revising them though and see how it looks.
But now we come to the "for comparison purposes only" part...
The purpose of compiling these charts was not to have everything 100% accurate down to the last tenth of a HP. If you want that then just look at the actual dyno graphs that the chart is based off of. Instead, the purpose of the exercise was just to illustrate how these engines make the power that they do, and where exactly they make it.
And the grand-purpose for all of this is n0ob education on the HonDUH boards where people think that all top-end and ZERO low-end is great and that torque doesn't matter, and then they wonder why their track times suck and they got their butt waxed by my weak 190HP VQ
You should see the Altima 240HP vs Accord 240HP charts. They ain't pretty. And I'm afraid to post them on the Accord site...hehehe
Realistically I should have used 0.804 for the Maxima and 0.834 for the Acura. So yes, the curve is a bit pessimistic for the Maxima, but using the higher correction factor wouldn't have significantly changed how the chart looked. Hmm...I'll play with revising them though and see how it looks.
But now we come to the "for comparison purposes only" part...
The purpose of compiling these charts was not to have everything 100% accurate down to the last tenth of a HP. If you want that then just look at the actual dyno graphs that the chart is based off of. Instead, the purpose of the exercise was just to illustrate how these engines make the power that they do, and where exactly they make it.
And the grand-purpose for all of this is n0ob education on the HonDUH boards where people think that all top-end and ZERO low-end is great and that torque doesn't matter, and then they wonder why their track times suck and they got their butt waxed by my weak 190HP VQ
You should see the Altima 240HP vs Accord 240HP charts. They ain't pretty. And I'm afraid to post them on the Accord site...hehehe
09-22-2002, 10:09 AM
#15
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
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Altima 240HP vs Accord 240HP
The Atlima has a SERIOUS amount of additional low/mid-range torque over the new Accord!
However, the 5AT gearing in the Accord is MUCH shorter and closer spaced vs the Alty's 4AT to the point that a good chunk of the Alty's extra power may be negated. It's still going to be very close on the streets and at the track.
Alty vs Accord Gearing:
1st: 49mph vs 43mph
2nd: 86mph vs 73mph
3rd: 128mph vs 107mph
However, CarTest2000 simulations with both cars using these dyno curves is still showing the Altima maintaining a narrow lead. Not much more than a car-length through the 1/4 mile and up to higher speeds, but then again that's all you need. Once the new Accord gets going, it GOES, but below 5000rpm it's nothing compared to the Altima
The Atlima has a SERIOUS amount of additional low/mid-range torque over the new Accord!
However, the 5AT gearing in the Accord is MUCH shorter and closer spaced vs the Alty's 4AT to the point that a good chunk of the Alty's extra power may be negated. It's still going to be very close on the streets and at the track.
Alty vs Accord Gearing:
1st: 49mph vs 43mph
2nd: 86mph vs 73mph
3rd: 128mph vs 107mph
However, CarTest2000 simulations with both cars using these dyno curves is still showing the Altima maintaining a narrow lead. Not much more than a car-length through the 1/4 mile and up to higher speeds, but then again that's all you need. Once the new Accord gets going, it GOES, but below 5000rpm it's nothing compared to the Altima
09-22-2002, 10:54 AM
#16
Re: Maxima 255HP vs Acura 260HP DYNO
Originally posted by SteVTEC
I didn't realize that the VQ35's were a bit underrated on torque!
I didn't realize that the VQ35's were a bit underrated on torque!
Charts look real nice, thanks for doing the work
09-23-2002, 07:43 AM
#22
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Re: Re: Maxima 255HP vs Acura 260HP DYNO
Originally posted by emax95
Steve how many times did I tell you the 3.5 VQ was underated on TQ and you dissagreed with me?
Charts look real nice, thanks for doing the work
Steve how many times did I tell you the 3.5 VQ was underated on TQ and you dissagreed with me?
Charts look real nice, thanks for doing the work
If I did...
09-23-2002, 07:52 AM
#23
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
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Originally posted by costcowholesale
wheres the VTEC jump when it kicks in that some hondas have :wall :
the prelude u can see it jump like 10hp all of a sudden on their dyno.
wheres the VTEC jump when it kicks in that some hondas have :wall :
the prelude u can see it jump like 10hp all of a sudden on their dyno.
I did a comparison of the factory J30A1 plot (98-02 Accord V6) vs *ACTUAL* dyno results from Accord V6 owners. The cars put down MUCH less low-end power than the factory dyno suggest.
Anyways, here is what the REAL power curves look like on a VTEC.
Originally posted by Honda @ HondaNews.com HERE
Honda engineers tuned the Accord 3.0-liter V-6 so that it would have sporty performance, but still be relaxed in everyday driving. Because of its VTEC valve train, the engine's powerband is exceptionally broad. Peak horsepower (200 hp @ 5500 rpm) and peak torque (195 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm) are both up by 18%. In addition, the torque curve remains within 90% of its peak figure, from 2,000 to 6,000 rpm.
Honda engineers tuned the Accord 3.0-liter V-6 so that it would have sporty performance, but still be relaxed in everyday driving. Because of its VTEC valve train, the engine's powerband is exceptionally broad. Peak horsepower (200 hp @ 5500 rpm) and peak torque (195 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm) are both up by 18%. In addition, the torque curve remains within 90% of its peak figure, from 2,000 to 6,000 rpm.
Sorry...just needed to vent. I have a VQ now so I'm much happier
09-23-2002, 09:31 AM
#24
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What does this prove? That the Maxima has more useable HP...whatever. If you line up a 6sp CL-S and a 6sp Max from a stop to about 80 it will be a drivers race. However if you start the race from a roll the 6sp CL-S will pull away. Its all about highend power baby, that's where the Acura engine has the edge! No flames please....
No flames please....
09-23-2002, 09:36 AM
#25
Originally posted by Acura2001CL-S
What does this prove? That the Maxima has more useable HP...whatever. If you line up a 6sp CL-S and a 6sp Max from a stop to about 80 it will be a drivers race. However if you start the race from a roll the 6sp CL-S will pull away. Its all about highend power baby, that's where the Acura engine has the edge! No flames please....
What does this prove? That the Maxima has more useable HP...whatever. If you line up a 6sp CL-S and a 6sp Max from a stop to about 80 it will be a drivers race. However if you start the race from a roll the 6sp CL-S will pull away. Its all about highend power baby, that's where the Acura engine has the edge!
No flames please....
i told you not to post without asking me first b!tch
09-23-2002, 09:39 AM
#26
It doesn't have to prove anything. It's just information and interesting data. It did prove that it somehow upset you though(judging by the wierdo race conditions )
)
Originally posted by Acura2001CL-S
What does this prove? That the Maxima has more useable HP...whatever. If you line up a 6sp CL-S and a 6sp Max from a stop to about 80 it will be a drivers race. However if you start the race from a roll the 6sp CL-S will pull away. Its all about highend power baby, that's where the Acura engine has the edge! No flames please....
What does this prove? That the Maxima has more useable HP...whatever. If you line up a 6sp CL-S and a 6sp Max from a stop to about 80 it will be a drivers race. However if you start the race from a roll the 6sp CL-S will pull away. Its all about highend power baby, that's where the Acura engine has the edge!
No flames please....
09-23-2002, 09:44 AM
#27
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
It doesn't have to prove anything. It's just information and interesting data. It did prove that it somehow upset you though(judging by the wierdo race conditions )
It doesn't have to prove anything. It's just information and interesting data. It did prove that it somehow upset you though(judging by the wierdo race conditions
)
09-23-2002, 09:48 AM
#28
However if you let my brother's 3rd cousin's aunt's 2nd sister's 2nd husband's highschool teacher's 10th grade's student's 1st father race on Sat but only before noon but not when that Sat falls on the 5th of any month and when the Acura uses only 91 octane gas from a Chevron owned by devote Catholics that only go to midnight mass on Sat nights, that acura might win a race from 80-85 mph
Originally posted by Acura2001CL-S
I'm not upset, just sharing my opinion.
I'm not upset, just sharing my opinion.
09-23-2002, 09:56 AM
#29
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
However if you let my brother's 3rd cousin's aunt's 2nd sister's 2nd husband's highschool teacher's 10th grade's student's 1st father race on Sat but only before noon but not when that Sat falls on the 5th of any month and when the Acura uses only 91 octane gas from a Chevron owned by devote Catholics that only go to midnight mass on Sat nights, that acura might win a race from 80-85 mph
However if you let my brother's 3rd cousin's aunt's 2nd sister's 2nd husband's highschool teacher's 10th grade's student's 1st father race on Sat but only before noon but not when that Sat falls on the 5th of any month and when the Acura uses only 91 octane gas from a Chevron owned by devote Catholics that only go to midnight mass on Sat nights, that acura might win a race from 80-85 mph
09-23-2002, 10:02 AM
#30
Originally posted by Jeff92se
However if you let my brother's 3rd cousin's aunt's 2nd sister's 2nd husband's highschool teacher's 10th grade's student's 1st father race on Sat but only before noon but not when that Sat falls on the 5th of any month and when the Acura uses only 91 octane gas from a Chevron owned by devote Catholics that only go to midnight mass on Sat nights, that acura might win a race from 80-85 mph
However if you let my brother's 3rd cousin's aunt's 2nd sister's 2nd husband's highschool teacher's 10th grade's student's 1st father race on Sat but only before noon but not when that Sat falls on the 5th of any month and when the Acura uses only 91 octane gas from a Chevron owned by devote Catholics that only go to midnight mass on Sat nights, that acura might win a race from 80-85 mph
09-23-2002, 10:07 AM
#31
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Posts: 149
Originally posted by Jeff92se
However if you let my brother's 3rd cousin's aunt's 2nd sister's 2nd husband's highschool teacher's 10th grade's student's 1st father race on Sat but only before noon but not when that Sat falls on the 5th of any month and when the Acura uses only 91 octane gas from a Chevron owned by devote Catholics that only go to midnight mass on Sat nights, that acura might win a race from 80-85 mph
However if you let my brother's 3rd cousin's aunt's 2nd sister's 2nd husband's highschool teacher's 10th grade's student's 1st father race on Sat but only before noon but not when that Sat falls on the 5th of any month and when the Acura uses only 91 octane gas from a Chevron owned by devote Catholics that only go to midnight mass on Sat nights, that acura might win a race from 80-85 mph
you know you want to
09-23-2002, 11:34 AM
#34
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Posts: 2,461
Originally posted by Acura2001CL-S
I have been considering a 350Z in 04. Hopefully by then the turbo version will be available.
I have been considering a 350Z in 04. Hopefully by then the turbo version will be available.
09-23-2002, 12:26 PM
#37
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
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Originally posted by Acura2001CL-S
However if you start the race from a roll the 6sp CL-S will pull away. Its all about highend power baby, that's where the Acura engine has the edge!; ) No flames please....: D
However if you start the race from a roll the 6sp CL-S will pull away. Its all about highend power baby, that's where the Acura engine has the edge!; ) No flames please....: D
03 CL-S 6spd: 217 FWHP / (3446lb/1 ton) = 125.9 FWHP/ton
03 Max 6spd: 205 FWHP / (3239lb/1 ton) = 126.6 FWHP/ton
When I get some more time I'm going to make a new chart incorporating this working straight off of wheel horsepower data. Maybe something like this...
I have some other projects planned as well, mainly for newbie education. i.e. Crank Horsepower vs Wheel Horsepower (manual vs auto tranny losses), etc. Sometimes a picture, or a graph, speaks a thousand words, and it's much easier for newbs and vets alike to understand when trying to teach new things
09-23-2002, 12:31 PM
#38
Originally posted by SteVTEC
hehe...did you forget about the extra 200lb of mass that the Acura is dragging around? Acceleration = Force divided by Mass. hehe...Newtonian Physics 0wNz all of us. No flames please
03 CL-S 6spd: 217 FWHP / (3446lb/1 ton) = 125.9 FWHP/ton
03 Max 6spd: 205 FWHP / (3239lb/1 ton) = 126.6 FWHP/ton
hehe...did you forget about the extra 200lb of mass that the Acura is dragging around? Acceleration = Force divided by Mass. hehe...Newtonian Physics 0wNz all of us. No flames please
03 CL-S 6spd: 217 FWHP / (3446lb/1 ton) = 125.9 FWHP/ton
03 Max 6spd: 205 FWHP / (3239lb/1 ton) = 126.6 FWHP/ton
fwhp/ton....never compared like that before
09-23-2002, 12:40 PM
#39
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
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Originally posted by mitch33x
LOL fwhp/ton....never compared like that before
LOL
fwhp/ton....never compared like that before
If I use the traditional lb/HP, the slower car ends up having the higher number and this is confusing to n00b's. If I use HP/lb, that results in an extremely small number. So I just divide out the weight by ton and it results in a much more understandable format
09-23-2002, 02:33 PM
#40
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Posts: 149
Originally posted by SteVTEC
hehe...did you forget about the extra 200lb of mass that the Acura is dragging around? Acceleration = Force divided by Mass. hehe...Newtonian Physics 0wNz all of us. No flames please
03 CL-S 6spd: 217 FWHP / (3446lb/1 ton) = 125.9 FWHP/ton
03 Max 6spd: 205 FWHP / (3239lb/1 ton) = 126.6 FWHP/ton
hehe...did you forget about the extra 200lb of mass that the Acura is dragging around? Acceleration = Force divided by Mass. hehe...Newtonian Physics 0wNz all of us. No flames please
03 CL-S 6spd: 217 FWHP / (3446lb/1 ton) = 125.9 FWHP/ton
03 Max 6spd: 205 FWHP / (3239lb/1 ton) = 126.6 FWHP/ton