Question for anyone who has the Stillen x-drilled rotors. That also means you njmaxseltd(since I know you have them).

The new Stillen x-drilled rotors (4) now have about 700 miles on them, so 2night I decided to see how well they would perform. Up until now I have been very easy with them and broke them in EXACTLY as Stillen recommended.

Anyway, I decided to go onto the service road of the L.I.E. (Long Island Expressway) and test them out since they had begun to feel really good after about 300 miles or so. I took the car up to 65 mph(making sure no other cars were around)and slammed HARD on the brakes.
I was disappointed since the car did slow down pretty quickly but it did not engage the ABS; no matter how hard I pressed on the brake pedal. Even though I mashed the pedal to the floor, the way the car slowed down felt almost as if it were experiencing brake fade; and I made sure that the brakes were warm but not hot.

I then let them cool off for a few minutes and repeated the same procedure at 50 mph thinking that maybe a slower speed would engage the ABS. No chance....again with my foot mashed to the floor it did not engage the ABS and slowed down the same exact way as it did at 65 mph.

Finally, I let them cool off for 5 minutes and tried an even slower speed- 20mph. Again I could not engage ABS!

So what is wrong with my brakes gang. Are the Stillen rotors crap, do I have crappy Axxis MetalMatrix pads, or do I have air in the system?

Another thought... I also put in the Motul Racing brake fluid. Is this fluid compatible with regular braking fluid? Meaning, if all of the regular braking fluid was not bled out would it be a problem when the 2 fluids mixed?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

ur abs wont kick in that way... i've tried it ...

hmm try it when it rains... clear road/street ...cruise...slam on the brakes..say around 40-50mph... abs should kick in ..mine still do... thank god !!

if not call jeff...

 

Ok where to start....

I do not think that the pads are the prob. I have them on my Z along with slotted rotors and they are great.

When you hit the brakes did you lock the brakes? If you did the ABS is not working. I not try it again on a wet road or on a sandy road (I am sure you can find some sand on LI).

 

SterlngMist00

There's more to your stopping power then just your pads and rotors. Your tires are a key factor here as well. If you've got good sticky "Z" rubber, they should hold the road, not lock up. On the other hand, your smashing the brake hard and reporting that the stopping power doesn't seem to be there. The one thing I do notice about the Stillen Brakes is the stopping power almost increases as they heat up during a stop. As if they bite harder and harder with no additional pressure applyed to my pedal. It's one thing I really do love about this brake setup.

Now a couple questions on the install.

1) Who did it?

2) Was your hardware reused? Thats fine as long as it was in good shape. Hardware actually isn't going to effect your stopping power but it's still good to be sure everything is installed correctly.

3) Were the caliper pins regreased? I took mine completely apart, cleaned all the old grease out and applied new high temp grease to the slider pins.

4) Was your brake fluid blead or better yet, replaced/flushed? Brake fluid by nature absorbes moisture which gives you a mushy pedal. If your fluid is spongy your never going to get the maximum pressure in your hydraulics to bite the rotor hard enough to actually lock them up.

All the above mentioned items effect your stopping power, especially the fluid condition. When I switched over to the Stillen setup I took everything apart, and I mean EVERYTHING! The pins came out & all the hardware came off the calipers. Of course I painted them at that point, it was easy to do that way. When I finished I flushed my old brake fluid out. I have a vacuum pump and I started at the right rear and pumped the old fluid out until it ran clear with new fluid. Then the left rear, right front, left front.

The one thing I can tell you is my pedal is very firm. It doesn't go down more then an inch if I step hard on it. I attribute that to the fluid change and the regreasing of the slider pins.

700 Miles is plenty for break-in. I went easy on mine for one tank of gas. I've never actually stomped on them to lock them up. I have had my ABS kick in a few times on wet roads with the Stillen setup.

The one thing I do feel is how incredably smooth these brakes are. There strong, yet there very smooth. My old rotors kept on warping and as soon as I braked hard, every time the high spot hit the pad my ABS kicked in for a second and pushed the pedal up. It was very annoying. This doesn't happen anymore with the Stillen setup.

If your running sticky "Z" rated rubber, it will be much harder to lock them up on a clean dry surface. Your tires are supposed to grip, not let lose.

If you haven't changed your fluid, give that a try and see if you get a firmer pedal. That could be the reason you feel your not getting the stopping power your looking for.

Hope that helps you out.

Tom

P.S. Maybe I'll play at lunch time today and see if I can get my car to kick the ABS in on dry road. My Dunlops SP8000 stick like glue so it should be interesting.


EDIT UPDATE:
Just got back from lunch time. I came off the highway slowed down, took the exit ramp. Now my brakes and tires are nice and warm. Got the car up to about 40 MPH and slammed on my brakes. I didn't lock up, no ABS, but the stopping power was intense! I heard the tires gripping the road as the car came to a very sudden yet smooth stop. Thats the first time I really stomped on my brakes to see what they can do. I'm totally satisfied with their performance. There's no way my stock brakes would have stopped the car like that!

If you really think about performance for a second, you really don't want brakes that lock up. They should stop you as fast as possible without any lock up. ABS is really there to protect you when you lose traction, lets say on slippery surfaces, not dry payvement. Good sticky tires plus great brakes should stop you, not make you slide and they shouldn't need the assistance of ABS to make your car stop either. They should stop you on their own power.

 

forgive me here but when you say the abs would not engage does that mean your tires locked up or you just came to a stop with no drama?

have you had any suspesion work done recently?

if so check to make sure the abs sensor is hooked up at the wheel.

also trying to immatiate(sp) a panic stop is pretty hard. real life emergency situtions is when you truly stomp the brake pedal.

wait till it rains and try again.

 

ABS only engages when you apply the brakes, and the tires slow down at a different rate of speed from one another, as far as I know.

 

First, Will (Golden Glory)- I remember earlier this spring, when I had the OEM Bridgestone tires, I took a drive out to Jones beach and on that long road that runs the length of the beach I tested the brakes of my car (with the OEM rotors, pads, etc. I slammed on the brakes at 50mph and the car slowed down quickly and engaged the ABS within a few seconds. It should be expected with the crappy tires which had about 27K miles on them.

95max & nismo2020- When I slammed on the brakes, and believe me, I know how to simulate a panic stop, the brakes did NOT lock up (the car did NOT slide) and I did not have any suspension work done to the car...yet ;o).

and now njmaxseltd- It is absolutely correct the your tires are what ultimately decide how well and how fast your car can stop; the tires DO have the final say. Keeping that in mind, the Bridgestone S-03s are an amazing tire. I also have noticed that at medium to fairly hard pedal pressure they do seem to bite harder and harder with no additional pressure applied to the pedal. But as I just said, that is up to a point of about 7/10ths pedal pressure (fairly hard). When I try to get the 9 to 10/10ths stop it feels that no matter how much harder I push the pedal to the floor, the brakes, while slowing the car down fairly quickly, do not seem to be slowing the car progressively faster; just at a steady rate that almost feels like brake fade.

The brakes were installed by Jeff (maximus75) at his shop and I have nothing but the utmost confidence in his quality work. The hardware was reused and it was in good condition. I also had Jeff install the SS brake lines and the system was gravity bled/flushed first and then
he had me depress the pedal 3 times and hold it to the floor while he closed the bleeder screws.I used the MOTUL racing brake fluid.

I agree that if you have high performance tires it should be much harder, if not impossible, to lock them up on clean, dry surface. So I am not really worried, now that I think of it, that I cannot lock them up and engage the ABS on a clean dry road; it means that the S-03s are a great tire. I also agree that ABS is only there to keep you from sliding out in slippery conditions and that a good brake system with good sticky tires should not easily loose traction in the dry.

I decided to make sure that the ABS does work and just moments ago went out, in light rain, and did another test. I slammed on the brakes at 40mph in light rain and the ABS did not engage until the last few feet before coming to a full stop. So the ABS works and these tires really grip the road amazingly well, even in the wet.

You said that your pedal is firm and does not go down more than an inch. My pedal is not that firm which leads me to believe that maybe I may have some residual air left in the system. I will re-bleed the brakes and see what the outcome is.

I appreciate everyones comments and will update the thread by this Saturday...

Thanks guys

 

Glad everything is working.

 

I decided to make sure that the ABS does work and just moments ago went out, in light rain, and did another test. I slammed on the brakes at 40mph in light rain and the ABS did not engage until the last few feet before coming to a full stop. So the ABS works and these tires really grip the road amazingly well, even in the wet.


told ya so

 

Well, I still haven't re-bled the new brakes (1000 miles on them) but I now think that it may not be residual air in the lines.

Just last week I was driving home, and not really using the brakes hard and they faded from a 75mph stop coming up to a light on the Long Island Expressay service road. I was lucky that I gave myself ample room to stop. I had done another stop from about 70 mph at the previous light which was about 2 minutes prior to the 75mph stop.

I think these rotors or pads are just overheating. To make matters worse, about 15 minutes later when I reached my exit ( I had gotten back on the highway and had done almost no braking except at the off ramp- about 65mph) and had to stop at the light at the end of the off ramp, a car pulled up next to me and told me my rear brakes were smoking. I looked back thru the outside rearview and saw smoke billowing out of the wheel wells.

I let go of the brake pedal and made the turn (illegal) since I new it was bad to leave the pads squeezed on in one spot on the rotors. I then crawled to the next light and the smoking stopped. Five minutes later I was home and inspected the rear brakes and they were sizzling.

I think that the pads or the rotors may not be up to the task.... ?(and I was not even racing anyone or doing repetitive high speed braking). The damn stock brakes may have warped several times but they never faded like this.
I am now thinking of getting the big brake kit from Performance brakes.......I was at Jeff's place (Maximus75) and another member had the same setup that I have (only with 5k miles on them) and he switched to the Performance Brakes big brake setup because he had the same fading problem.

I will test these brakes some more and decide what I will do........

 

I Can't believe your having issues with those brakes. Something doesn't sound quite right. The fade is from excessive heat, you may want to see if your calipers are binding and not releasing properly. That will cause enough heat to glaze your pads/rotors and cause your fade.

As you know I'm running the same setup. I go up and down the parkway, stop and go traffic, tolls, ect. They grab much better then stock and I've never had any fade at all.

Something doesn't sound quite right with your brakes. Installation is pretty straight forward but you might have something else going on.

 

when you are saying your ABS isn't working, that mean you are sliding right? Because ABS is supposed to keep the brakes from completely locking up right?

 

I was at Jeff's shop this past Friday and had him install my Injen intake. He also looked at the rear brakes while the car was up and he spun the rear tires (after he pushed on the brake pedal a few times)
and they spun freely...it doesn't seem that they were binding.

Also, Pmp-n8a had the same setup as us and he also experienced the same fading problem. On Saturday he had Jeff install the Precision Brakes big brake kit on his car after driving on the Stillen setup for about 4-5K miles.....

The rotors do not look glazed at this time. Still can't figure out what is going on with these things......

I may have to try different pads.