1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

We always ***** and moan about no aftermarket support, but we never do anything about it. We have 500 people on this forum. This is your chance. These companies are in business to make profit. Everyone e-mail them to show your support for the Maxima. Tell them you are interested an ECU upgrade for the Maxima. The gains are anywhere from 15hp-22hp. The PROgram yield 22hp. A generic fuel/iginition map should yield aleast 15hp for $400. No speed limiter and raised rev limiter. The best of all. You just need a screw driver for this upgrade.


Autothority
sales@autothority.com
techsupport@autothority.com

UPRD
info@uprd.com
sales@uprd.com

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Lets go guys! put the pressure on them!

WoodEar

Talk is cheap you know??? You really think a company will start R&D just cuz you email in your interest???

All 500 users here email them saying you will buy ECU don't mean $hit, only 50 of you pay them $500 each to show you are 100% interested, that's enough for them to start working on tomorrow.

Shingles

Dood you know you are really negative. It's like ANYTIME some one says anything, you got to shoot them down. That's not cool man.

-Shing

PIONEER

iTrader: (1)

Read on.

If there is a big enough demand I will look into the modification. As of now, therefor the system to justify the R & D needed. If you can get a large enough group of like cars (30+) then I would be happy to do the ECU.


Richard Schroeck
UPRD Sales/Tech

WoodEar

I just want them to see the real thing, so they don't waste time.
Go ahead and email those companies, see when they will make the ECU without any *real* commitment from you.

1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

Everyone want to see a dyno chart before they put down any money. If I can get a prototype done on my car. If it shows 20hp for less than $400. I'm sure people will buy it. Most people spent more $400 on a catback. The gain is probably 3-5hp. The ECU will give you dyno proven hp. If you build it, they will come.

1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

Shing went the extra mile and talk to somebody. Now, the KYB/AGX will be available in the spring. I don't see anyone pre-paid for them.

Shingles

Does it really matter to *you*? No... so stop shooting everyone down. You shoot everyone down for anything and everything. All he's doing is trying to get support and you say this crap. Well let me ask you this, how else do you expect them to know that people are interested?

WoodEar

Good, so we know it doesn't even take 50, 30 is good enuff.
But the point is what type of commitment is required for those 30 people.
I really don't mean to be negative, I mean, remember the group deal for SMG(?) shifters? Even that the company needed us to pay them all in advance to honor the low price, now we are taking about R&D and lots of money spent just cuz they receive 30 emails?

WoodEar

You are missing the point.
It's nice for him to go try to get support, it's nice for the company to reply, it's nice if this is possible... I just don't see the company do the R&D without any sort of real commitment.
So, go ahead and send them all the emails you want, if they really gonna make the chip, I will apologize publicly here on the BBS and admit I am wrong, ok? Before that, I am allowed to think otherwise and voice my opinion.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Talk is better than nothing, which is what 97-99's have now. Is'nt their a BMW BBS you can go and stir **** on!

"Chill out with the negative vibes Moriarty!"

Dave B

First off, Woodear is extremely negative and likes to stir **** up. He always justifys himself by saying he's teaching us something.

Second, getting 22hp out of a "chip" on a late model car is "snake oil" if you ask me. I just don't understand how there can be that much power hidden in some fuel and timing tables. Raising the rev limiter would do little on a 4th gen because the power falls off at 5800 rpms with a y-pipe, exhaust, and intake. Revving to 7000 rpms is futile and is worthless. It's not the ECU holding the engine back, it's the flow characteristics of the heads, cams, and intake manifold. I've never seen a "chip" increase power 20+hp and I'm talking about custom chips (turbo cars are an exception). Maybe I'm wrong here, but has anyone ever seen real proof a chip making this much hp? Custom chips are great, but you need to dyno your car at the facility and have the chip done there so they understand and can read what your particular car is doing. They all act different. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't expect more than 10hp even with a custom chip. A generic chip will do little. Just look at Hypertech, JET, and Superchips. They're generic chips and have been dynoed to put down 2-4 hp. If you want to play with fuel tables, just get a S-AFC. That does the same thing for only $300.

What I really want to see is a VQ with ported and polished heads, slightly more aggressive cams, ported intake manifold, and TB. A custom chip would then be great. From what I hear, the heads of the VQ are where extra power can be found. I wouldn't be surprised if this setup could crank out 250hp and run high 13s on drags. I would much rather prefer this than a S/C.

Dave

Zprime

20+ on just a chip for N/A is a bit too ambitious
but then again..what do I know....
I think a 'smart' OEM ECU would probably already maximize most thing but with some constraints being pushed hard....maybe fuel economy, engine life, etc etc
it is programmed for what the car character is....
so yeah...you can tweak here and there, change the car character etc etc....but it will still be that your original ECU max out certain things already
now..if you slap in some bolt on mods...like I/H/E or stuff
now...that might be a different thing since your car is not the same anymore.....thus why people reset ECU..so it relearns....but that might not be 100% true...again depending what got programmed in there..the adaptation module if you may think of it as such...might exist or might not
Yes I believe there will be gain..but 20 might be high. But if it is achieveable....I am game! I will buy that ECU.

As far as the idea of proposing one....I will email them too. Trying is better than not doing anything at all. No effort is too small....though incentive is not always there....knock and maybe the door will be opened...

Peace
PS:I am pretty sure there are many grammatical errors here and there but I am not writing my thesis so live with it
^_^

WoodEar

To be perfectly honest with you, not that I wouldn't, it's just hard to do that
See, they are usually bunch of old people that consider themselves real enthusiast and enjoy nice country roads motoring.
If someone actually posts something like my MZ3 with intake exhaust and Dinan software hang with a Viper today, you bet I will laughing my *** off at him and start some $hit. But no one says $hit like that.

So for better amusement, you gotta come here Better yet go to the Honda board actually, they seem to have wilder imagination.

Shingles

Chris, I think you are missing the point. All Tony was trying to do was to show support. You are very negative on this board. We are here as a bunch of guys with one thing in common: we like cars. It's a place to talk to get ideas, etc. Now here is one car guys saying to the rest "hey let's try and get people's attention" and here you are saying "it won't work, no one cares blah blah blah". Have you ever heard of the phrase "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't." Yeah it's a free country blah blah blah... but you have to realize that no one died and gave you the responsibility to "educate" us. You talk about missing the point... we are trying to have fun... so stop spoiling it for everyone.

As for you example... it's stupid and outrageous.

BTW go hang out at the CRX forum and you will realize that they truely are a bunch of ensuthiast... oh and it so happens that CRX is a honda. So come on, let's stop making wild generalizations like that.

[Edited by Shingles on 09-08-2000 at 11:54 PM]

Chebosto

iTrader: (1)

wow. shing. you said it. ahem.

Nismo87SE

You also have to consider the dyno time in tuning it. That alone would add up to a $400 cost. Then there is fact that your still running stock ignition maps. Sure you can change the fuel maps but you can't adjust the timing curve. We know that an adjustment on the crankangle sensor or ITC won't work because its been tried and failed. I agree that a 20hp gain is too optimistic, however it is possible for you to gain a maximum of 10-15hp in some part of the powerband. For example my cai gained me 11hp/13lb-ft at the peak vs generic intake. But my average gain was 14hp/9lb-ft from 4000-5500. Biomax had good gains from the 95 JWT ECU from 2000-5000rpm but none above that. However technically it still added 7hp and 8lb-ft over his previous dyno.

1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

Did you not see Madmax's result from his PROgram. He gained 22hp with it. UPRD already did a beta prototype chips for the maxima already. It gained 13hp.
https://maxima.org/forums/showthread...?threadid=1492
That's the first pass. Do you know how much a pair of ported and polished heads are going to be? You are talking about $1000 labor just to pull the heads. Unless you know how do it yourself. Another >$1000 for ported/polshed head, 3 angle valve job...cam. The maxima TB is already large enough. Stillen does sell larger TB, but nobody is buying it because it's useless. Keven already tried the extrude hone intake. It didn't show any gain on the dyno. What else can you get for less than $400 and gain 15hp?? Besides Nitrous.

1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

Read this https://maxima.org/forums/showthread...threadid=1492.

Beta showed 13hp.

Chebosto

iTrader: (1)

This is what Robert (head of ECU tuning told me)

"In original testing in 1995-96 we made really good gains, about 15-20 and at best over 30 ft lbs. We did dyno a 120,000 mile 1995 man trans last year and made 12-15 HP and 20-25 ft lbs."


so. if this isn't enough to get some interest going, then i don't know what will.

in a week, a 96 and 97 maximas will be in UPRD office and will be dynoing/beta testing.


cool, eh? just hope this **** works in a 97

1MAX2NV

iTrader: (5)

nm

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Thats nice for ~$400!

WoodEar

Shing,

I have no idea WTF you are talking about. I was answering the question why I don't stir anything up on the BMW BBS. Calm down, I am laughing my *** off here all the time, you guys are too serious about all this ****.

hodgeee

All 2000 and earlier maximas up to 1997 work off the OBD III system of ECUs. The 1997 and above of course have OBD III as per Federal standards, which will limit some total maximum performance upgrades, but won't be a problem, due to the limits of what we can do to a street legal car. All OBD II systems 1996 and earlier will manage horsepower figures up to 398 horsepower with no problems. They also per fed regulations have been mandated to be used on all cars since 1989. That meant that when this bill was proposed in 1986, that gave all car manufacturers 3 years to fully develope a system managment that could be used within all vehicles that were required to pass federal mandated emmissions. All manufacturers have of course their own programmers, and all are different versions, but they all must come within the limits of the federal mandate, this making them all very similar in the way that they work. The newer OBD III is a newer system that limits and monitors more directly what your motor does, so that it can meet more stringent emmision requirements. Any one take their car in for a diagnostic, and they can tell you when something went wrong, how fast you were going, how many times you started your car since the problem, how much fuel has flowed through the injectors, what rpm you were at. This of course is on the newer OBD III. It is scary because if you race your motor and it blows, they can deny warrenty work, because they can see exactly what you were putting your motor through.

Notice that there are one or two companies that make ECU upgrades for 1996 and earlier Maximas, but nothing offered for 1997 and above. This is due strictly to the newer computer, that is more strict and limited in adjustability. Also there are lots of talk about how the 1996 and earlier models seemed to run a little better, or stronger.

OBD II was a loved system in most hot rodded street cars between 89 to 96, because whenever you did an upgrade, the system could immediatly identify it and make all needed adjustments to make the car run at its programed optimal effeciency. The system basicly is programmed so that you can drive your car from Florida to Alaska, and generally it will run as effieciently as possible at all normal temperatures, elevations, fuel qualities, and what not. It monitored 24 different aspects that made the car run, and could tell by these different changing aspects it could reprogram itself to run more efficient. Really an awesome system. When all cars were carberated, you used to have to make adjustments on your carb whenever you drove into the mountains, to make up for the lesser oxygen at higher elevations, or your motor did not run correctly. Well these systems monitor everything from air density, to speed, temperature, moisture, along with monitoring the grade of gasoline, how much CO II came out the exhaust, how much voltage went to your spark plug. It can do this up to 12 times in a second, then recalibrate to reduce the emmisions coming from your car. No more adjusting the carb and messing with the timing of the motor when you did a performance upgrade, all done for you now.

Well OBD III is programmed to work up to 385 hp aplications, and monitors 36 different aspects of what is going on in your motor. It has more defined parameters in its program and is more difficult improve upon. Not that things couldnt be done better, it is just more stringent on the manufacturers set parameters for your car, and harder for people to reprogram.

The reason that Hyperchip, Jet, and other chip manufacturers can only give you between 5 to 10 hp at the most, is due to the fact that they still have to meet manufacturers limitations, so that they do not void warrenties, or they fear that people would not buy them. They are not worth that much, because as an added chip, it only changes signals that are sent out from the original signal from the computer. They do not reprogram the computer, they alter the signal output. This means that the chips can only make limited adjustments to your motor. It is still amazing that they can squeek out that much more power, and not affect the overall adjustability of the computer, so that you can still drive from Florida to Alaska without having to do more than put gas in the car. Still, even the original computer is limited to its adjustability, that is why you will see High Elevation packages on cars that are sold in Denver and what not. Just slightly different programmed computer.

Now actually reprogramming the ECU will take about at least a hundred dyno runs on the motor to make adjustments at every 50 rpm or so to eek out every last splinter of power. There are companies that do actual ECU programming to any car for about $500 to $600. When I was big time into drag racing, after rebuilding my 302 to a 327 and supercharging, and port and polishing the heads. My car(1989 Mustang LX 5.0) made about 360 hp at the flywheel. This was dynod after the rebuilding the motor. Later I took it to SuperSports in Austin Texas and had a ECU specific reprogramming done. They put it on a wheel dyno and took about three hours of beating on my motor and readjusting the original programming to match the supercharger and engine mods. They then stopped because the check engine light kept coming on, due to the motor making more power than the OBD II system could handle. This means that I was pushing over 398 hp. I then had to buy a special ECU that had different parameters programmed into it, from the race modified 92 Mustang Cobra. Then I finally came to approximatly 410 hp at the flywheel. this in turn cost me $1400 dollars for the two programming dates and the modified computer. But, it gave me 50 hp. Now the offside was that since they tuned it for peak power, I could only use 93 or higher octane, wich wasn't a problem since lots of gas stations in Texas sold 94 high test. It ran like crap under 2500 rpm, and when I went to higher and lower elevations it caused the motor to ping, not start properly, and run poorly. When I got out her to Vegas at the end of 92, my car ran like ****. I finally had to put in the original computer to get the car to run right. The programming was adjusted to run best at the elevation and mild temperatures for that region that I was in. I only cared for max power, for dragging purposes. That car ran 11.9 E.T.s, but ran like crap for regular driving.

So what I am saying is that they can get so much more power out of a stock motor than you would think possible, but there are consequences to how much power you get. The original computer will make your car purr like a kitten, and run nice and smooth. If they reprogram the car to still be within its original parameters, to run well at all conditions, they are very limited on how much power you can get, and 10 horsepower would probably be the greatest power output. If you have modifications on your car, and they are directly reprogramming to your cars specifications with the upgrades they will probably get some more real usable horsepower. But if they do a computer reprogram, you know they are going to do it to stock specifications. I know there are a couple places in Cali, that will do specific computer modifications for your specific car that will still keep it very drivable in most climates, at it should cost you just about the same $500 to $600 to do the job, and you could probably expect a real 20 to 25 hp, with no more payoff then having to use maybe 94 octane gass instead of the 87 required.

If any one is that serious to get the power, it will just take some searching for a high performance shop that will do it for you. I found info in Texas at my local race shop on where to get my computer reprogrammed, and I don't imagine that it will be much harder for you to find a place the same way.

Dave B

IMAX2NV-

Don't believe everything you read. Hypertech, JET, Superchips, etc all claim to make "up to 25hp" with thier programming. This is why I'm sketchy about these 13-20hp gains with a generic chip. My "chip" experience was with LT1/LS1 Camaros and Trans Ams. The only chips that made respectable power were custom burned ECUs that were specifically designed for the aftermarket parts applied to the car. If this chip is for real and it proves itself, then you bet your a$$ I'm in line for that thing. BUT, until I see an independant dyno run of a modded Max with and without the chip, I'm gonna wait. I've just seen and heard to many companies claiming their chips are making big hp, but instead they don't do jack.

Dave

Nismo87SE

Nice informative statement I vote to FAQ (doh! wrong bbs ).

Nismo87SE

I agree from my limited experience with other tuners chips. I don't really know if superchips can make good ECU chips for our cars. I mean along time ago I raced Jason F I believe at the time he had stillen intake and dinan chip. My mods was K&N panel filter and timing advance. We did a rollon at around 20mph and was side by side until he started to pull on me at 75. Even then it was a slow pull, I'm sure if it was a JWT ECU I would have been smoked. Remember it appears that the only way to adjust the ignition timing on the VQ is with an ECU. So far only JWT, UPRD and the PROgram are the ones that can do it.