I've read a few threads lately regarding the AGX's compaired to others. Some have said that the AGX's themselves are a bit harsh. We always talk about springs giving us a harsh ride but has anybody really considered the struts/shocks to be the cause of a harsh ride?

I'm currently on H&R/AGX and the ride is very sporty but you do feel bumps in the road. Dips and such are not absorbed, but rather followed by the car. H&R's are said to be the closest to stock as far as ride goes, but lately I'm starting to think and feel as if my car is to tight for the suspension to work correctly. Perhaps the combination of spring/strut isn't correct. Suppose the strut is to tight for the spring? Suppose the spring is to agressive for the strut? Lets consider each of the above.

Strut to tight for the spring:

This would yield you a harsh ride because the strut cannot allow the spring to compress and rebound smoothly. You get what I think I feel which is little jerky movements. HOPS - This is also speed related. Around town the ride is sports car like, pretty smooth yet nice and firm. On the highway where you encounter small dips, you get a washboard like ride at times. You hit the small dip and the strut is so firm is doesn't allow the spring to expand yet causes your car to dive into the dip, then you hit the upslope of the dip and your suddenly forcing your suspension upwards, again a tight strut doesn't allow the spring to compress to absorb anything and your car rides over small dips like being on a surfboard. I call this the HOP. Most of the time, if the road is fairly smooth this isn't felt. But there are sections of the Parkway here in NJ that make my car ride like crap. I see a 3 series coasting past me absorbing all these hops while I'm getting a rollercoaster like ride.

Lets look at a spring thats to tight for a strut.

This would also yield harsh ride, but fairly bouncy. The sturt cannot stabalize the car anymore because the spring is to powerfull for the valving in the strut. Your car would probably ride like a pogo stick. Plenty of unsetteling movement going on while you were on the highway. Around town the car may feel agressive or sports car like. But as your speed increased, your control would decrease. This combonation would yeild the worst ride and loss of control at highway speeds. Especialy when cornering.

Has anybody on here actually felt how the different struts are valved? Have you ever had a Tokico and an AGX side by side and depressed the pistons? You can clearly feel the difference. Even set at 1, the AGX is extremely firm to press down, and pull back up. Compression and rebound. The Tokico feels a bit lighter. It's easier to compress and rebounds quicker as well. I had to opportunity to lower a Ford Lightning about a month ago. That truck came with Bilstein shocks. The Bilstein's had a very smooth, controlled linear movement to it. No matter how hard I pressed down it moved the same speed. Nice, slow, controlled. After we lowered the truck I took it for a ride. Much to my suprise the thing rode exactly the same as it did before we changed everything. I was impressed to say the least.

Winter is coming and I'm about to change my car back to stock again. The factory 16" 5 spokes and the OEM springs are going back in. If anybody has ever riden in a Maxima with AGX's on stock SE springs, the ride is awsome. I got compliments from a lot of guys who rode in my car with that setup. It was very stable, smooth yet firm and sporty. The handling was awsome with my "Z" rated Dunlops. I could carve any turn with confidence. The suspension absorbed road imperfections flawlessly, and maintained stability and control at all times under just about any road surface condition. I can't say I have the same thing with my H&R/AGX setup. A good dip, bump ect will make the car jump to much. On nice smooth surfaces, being a lower center of gravity, I can handle a sweeper a bit faster with confidence.

Bottom line here is that I believe we tend to couple springs and struts incorrectly. A lot of us what the tightest strut and go with softer springs or vise-vers.

I think spring/strut combo's should be looked at more closely. I believe the AGX's are a good strut, but shouldn't be used with a softer lowering spring. I believe AGX recomends Eibach's for their entire line when it comes to a lowering spring. Tokico is a softer strut and should only be used with softer springs. I think the only 2 I'd recomend them to be used on is H&R and Maxspeed.

With OEM springs I believe any strut may be used to obtain different levels of handling. The spring is calibrated correctly for the car's weight. The strut will only make the car stiffer or looser. A harsh ride is less likely with any strut / shock on OEM springs.

This spring I'm going to switch to Tokico's and couple them with my H&R springs. I may however leave the rear AGX's in place because of their ability to be adjusted to compensate for load conditions. I think the rears can be made soft enough to compliment a front Tokico setup. My goal is to have a lowered look with a controlled smooth factory ride and also give the suspension the ability to acutally absorb road imperfections giving you the best of both worlds, Performance, Looks and ride!

Tom

P.S. I'm bored at work today so I figured I'd just kill some time writing this thread.

 

Why not throw another variable in and get the Tokico Illuminas?

 

I think you'll find the rebound damping of the Tokicos to be insufficient.

...don't get rid of your AGXs too quickly...

 

This is good info!

 

We should have a post about different struts weight and also springs weight. Though it's extremely tough to compare manufacturers measurement of weight. 500wt from Eibachs does not equal to 500wt of Sprints.

When think about springs and struts, think of the concept of dampening and rebound effect .

Tifosi

 

The correct term is damping, not dampening.

Most manufacturers are extremely protective of their spring and shock calibrations. But, you've got a good idea.

 

I had Tokicos and H&R for about hmmm 5 months at the most. It was a very soft ride, and the Tokico rears are NOT up to snuff when it comes to things like auto-x. However if you want a soft ride with less sway, I suppose that's the way to go. Too bad I got rid of my Tokico fronts already, Tom, or I would have sold them to you. I recommend sticking with the AGX rears.

The B&G springs are really hot with the AGX; they work in tandem, IMO. I'm glad we traded, Tom! And now you know what I was talking about with the H&R's, huh?

I really am interested in trying out something like Tein or whatever Cheston's got going, but I don't want a very noisy setup.

 

The general idea I got from doing some searching is DO NOT get Tokicos with any kind of lowering springs. They might only serve as good factory strut replacements.

A ton of people complained about their Tokicos... this is not only people with Sprints and such, but H&Rs as well..

if I can be convinced that this is not the case, I would be riding on a lowered car right now because Tokicos can be bought dirt cheap from all those people selling them after disliking them

 

ehmmm they're fine with H&R's but the rears may not hold up under such activities as auto-x.

 

I like the Tokico/H&R setup on mine as well. I don't do AutoX, but curvy roads are fun I thought this setup was harsh at first, but after almost 1k miles I think I could've gone for the Eibachs. I didn't want my car to be lowered very much.

 

njmaxseltd:

I don't know if you've given consideration to this, but with the temperatures falling, the struts become firmer simply because the fluid is colder. The springs are also tighter because of the cold. I can tell a huge difference in the way my car rides on a 80 degree day vs a 40 degree day. It's so noticeable in fact that I have to dial my struts down to 1 in the front and rear. I have Koni's in the front, AGX in the rear, and H&Rs. I'm happy with the ride in the 409 degree weather we're having in Kansas City, but my ride doesn't remotely compare to the ride of Solara rental I'm using for work during the day. The Solara is velvetly smooth, but handles as good as a wet pork chop. In 60+ degree weather, my car rides perfect. It rides firmly, but with supple motions and excellent handling.

Why are you putting the stock springs back on for winter. You guys really don't have that many days in NJ where 8" of snow is on the street, do you? Why would you even attempt to drive with over 4" of snow on the street anyways? I'd bet you car would ride significantly better once you put on the smaller and lighter 16s with narrower all season tires. I'm actually looking forward to putting my stock 15s so I can gain back a softer ride.

OT, It's sad to say, but the Solara is a very nice car and I'm very impressed. It's almost like a baby Lexus SC400. I'm actually considering a Solara SLE 5 speed with the TRD supercharger as my next potential ride. At 4 psi with 225fwhp and 210fwtq from the SC alone isn't too bad for a 3100lbs coupe.


Dave

 

Yup. I never did understand the changing suspension for the season thing. I keep my car lowered all year round.



Okay, you do know that the Maxima has 255 N/A? Just checking. Don't post this stuff in a thread like this because now a war is going to start.

 

Good informative post, I need struts but I was not sure which would be best. One good thing about being in the south we don't have to "winterize" our cars.

 

Tokico Illuminas are differnt from the tokico blues every one knows



the illuminas are fully adjustable like the agx's...

 

Tom,

Something that you didn't address is with the Stock springs. You stated and I agree "A harsh ride is less likely with any strut / shock on OEM springs." Two reasons for this that you left out (BTW nice write up) 1)With stock springs you have full suspension travel. 2)Stock springs are designed to give a nice ride.

 

Dave, Good point but I don't think this is true. All struts and shocks are compensated for temperature changes. Maybe the first few minutes of driving on a very cold (10 deg.) day will be a bit tight, but they warm up as they start to work. As far as springs getting stiffer in the cold. I'm not so sure on that one either. Metal properties aren't going to change much over a 100 deg. temp variation. It takes over 1000 deg. before metal starts to get soft. I don't think it's going to get any stiffer just 50 deg. below room temp. I actually don't feel any difference in the way my car rides as temp changes. The body, rubber seals, ect ect expand and contract making the chassis feel stiffer on cold days and softer on very hot days. Even rubber bushings on your suspension will get soft or hard depending on temp. But shocks, struts and springs shouldn't be effected by temp changes.
I want to go back to stock for the winter because the ride is so much smoother. It's cold and damp outside and I want a comfy cushy car to drive around in on days like that. The sporty Maxima is great for Spring, Summer and a bit of Fall. But come winter I want the luxury back in my car. It cost's me nothing to swap my suspension. Well almost nothing, the alignment is 53 bucks. Big deal, when it's done it will be like I have a new car for the winter. And the same goes when spring comes along and I lower it and put my 17's back on.

Think of it this way, I drive a different car 2x per year!

Tom

 

Yes, I'm very aware that the Maxima has 255hp NA. With the 4psi SC on the Solara, the car is putting down more HP than the 2k2 Max does with most boltons (Ethan is making 230fwhp WITH a y-pipe) plus the Solara weighs less. With a Y-pipe, intake, exhaust, and a 4 psi SC, the Solara will be making close to 240fwhp. You can also change to smaller pullies like a 5 psi, 6 psi, and 7 psi. I'd consider the Solara over the Maxima because I'd like a bigger sporty coupe, independent rear suspension, rod linkage shifter, a highly reliable Roots supercharger, and Toyota quality (not saying Nissan is bad either, my Max has been buletproof). Just my opinions.


Dave