Frank Fontaine

The District sent me a notice of infraction for passing a red light. OMFG, the pictures are as clear as a stream flowing in North Bay Ontario! You can see my bad boy 18's and then my signal as I was turning left. Says the light was red for 0.5 sec when I blew it at 17 mph.

Time to man the f*** up and pay the $75. Says no points to the owner or driver. I just hope there weren't any other infractions on that crazy trip. We need more of these cameras in Phila.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

Welcome to DC I got my first last week. we also have speed cameras too, sometimes you'll see a undercover cop in a Crown Vic sitting on the side of the road, and then you'll see a mysterious flash of light behind you my dad gets the speeding ones all the time...

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

I hope that was a joke. Redlight cameras are unconsitutional. You do not have the opportunity to confront your accuser. You are presumed guilty.

These cameras have never been shown to reduce accidents. The manufacturer of the camera gets a cut of each fine. They shorten the yellow light at intersections with cameras to increase revenue.

The best way to decrease redlight running is simple... longer yellow lights. But this solution does not earn any money for anyone, so it is ignored.

Conratulations, you've been screwed.

wope

iTrader: (1)

they dont have those here... how do they work? what if someone else was driving your car, etc?

NYCe MaXiMa

iTrader: (9)

haha

those cameras are amazing indeed...

my brother got caught a bunch of times... these cameras take 2 shots... like a second or 2 two apart.. one shows him crossing the intersection, the other he's already 1/2 down the block.. they could have easily figured out he was doing like triple the speed limit through that but they didn't

the cameras do work wonders
i see people hustling to clear that intersection where the cameras are.. often people are skidding or braking crazy hard so they don't go through a red..

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

But can you see you in the driver's seat? There is NO proof that you were the one driving.

Most places will only let you pull that defense if you rat out who was driving...

As an American I feel totally violated just knowing that these things are out there...

thebigsadler

iTrader: (4)

if they sent you a picture of the infraction and a ticket.. send them a picture of the money they want.. same idea.

NickStam

iTrader: (3)

you need the liscene plate covers that blur the letters on your plate

Frank Fontaine

It says there the registered owner is responsible. kinda like a parking summons in NYC. Why do you feel violated? Run a light, get caught, pay the fine, life goes on. No points. The ACLU screamed bloody murder in Phila. about these cameras. When I saw the story on CN8 I thought it was laughable. $75 is a gift, it's like $20 more than a parking summons was 10 years ago in NYC. A ticket in PA is $94 minimum plus points. I think it's unamerican to stiff the Nation's Capital.

CRMax

Normally I would agree here, but I kinda like that idea of having them. Around where I work, about 5-6 cars blow through the red lights everytime. A couple of lights were changed to a longer yellow and nothing has changed. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for people running red lights. It's an invitation to T-bone someone.

There is no way in he11 that the manufacturer should be getting a cut. I guess it just further proves that it's all about the $ not the safety.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I hear that one county sent back a pic of a pair of handcuffs.

SuDZ

Me and my friend were talking abou these the other day and what a awful idea they are. I agree with what your saying on this one.

SuDZ

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

Work wonders?

What you have witnessed is the mere presence of the cameras making people drive unsafely...another bad idea...

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

So if I lend my car to my dad, and he gets a speeding ticket, I should have to pay it?

I dont think so.

Frank Fontaine

What happens when you get a parking ticket?

You have the opportunity to put the driver's name and address down if you feel like doing so, then you will have a hearing. Why do all that? If you broke the rules, you should be a man and pay. If you don't, there's a good chance that you will be the same way in other walks of life. Once on SEPTA the conductor missed a dude and his son, so he didn't give up the ticket. The son asked his dad why he didn't give the conductor the ticket. How embarassing that his own son saw him not being a man.

Dave B

OMG, that is the funniest thing I've read in a long while.

Dave

SuDZ

What is SEPTA?

SuDZ

vito1281

Uncle Sam is watching!!!

Seriously though, I'm kind of torn between this idea. On one hand it's good because some people blatantly blow red lights, but I myself have sometimes went through a yellow-changing-to-red light and if I had tried to stop the idiot tailgating me behind would've rammed me in the rear. So I don't know if these are good or not.

They got some on Ocean Pkwy in Brooklyn at one intersection. I drove through it one time, and look back and there are white flashes going off. You've got mail!!!

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I do not like them as MZMTG stated, but I am not a nuts about it as he.

They have PROVEN IT A FACT that these cameras CAUSE more accidents than prevent.

And the right to confront your accuser is in the consititution... so this is where I agree that they are BS

blizz20oma

iTrader: (1)

I'm with mzmtg...

I know I saw a news story here couple years back that said they couldn't put the cams up because an officer of the law had to be present to give you an infraction....but I think that's changed since, and they're going to start putting them up.

To me, it's the equivalent of having a satellite modem in a car that when you go .00000001mph over the speed limit, automatically reports you to local authorities, and an infraction is automatically issued.
The second you break the speed limit, you're breaking the law.

But I don't expect the law to change people's opinions on running red lights, and they have to enforce the consequences of what can happen if someone runs one and causes an accident. I think they know this isn't a good way to do it, but what are some other options? Same with all other cases where someone gets charged for doing something that could potentially lead to another damaging situation (like a car accident...like...chirping your tires COULD lead to loss of control, so here, we'll give you a ticket).

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

It's very cut and dried to me. With the current setup, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

This goes against everything that our legal ssytem is based on. Plain and simple.

flyer

Then they send u pic of hand cuffs ....


P.S MD has too many of those nasty cameras as well, after u get u'r first tickit, you are rmineded yellow light means prepare to STOP if possible, NOT SPEED AWAY.

The_Bomb

I know here in Colorado they just recently found photo radar vans to be illegal since as mzmtg said that you cannot face your accuser. Although it does say at the bottom of the ticket that in order to make you pay the ticket has to be delievered by an officer, so I don't see why anyone payed them at all. If I get a ticket like that anywhere I won't throw the ticket away but I also won't pay it until the officer who's name is on the ticket knocks on my door and hands it too me.

Adam

Frank Fontaine

You're not understanding or you're playing devil's advocate. If you don't want to pay the ticket, you either ignore it, or you give them an explanation and they set up a hearing. If you pay it, it's over and done with, no points, and they don't even know anything about you're driver's license. If you ignore, you may get away with it if your state has no reciprocity with DC. How much more evidence do you want to prove that an infraction took place? They have one photo and the position of your vehicle when the light turned red, and one as you were approaching the intersection. Each photo has the exact time embedded in it. You ever get caught by some girl's father messing around? A man faces up to it, doesn't call the ACLU and try to say he wasn't doing it and use legal mumbo jubmo. And this advice is coming from a lawyer!

lcf

iTrader: (6)

The ACLU fights for our freedom. Keep in mind... freedom doesnt just disappear overnight. It's a slow, slow process. What if there were camera's EVERYWHERE except in our own homes. While some people might be comfortable being on camera everywhere they went, whenever they left the privacy of their own home, I on the other hand would NOT. Something like this might sound ludicrous now but what about in 5 years? This world is crazy.

I'm with mzmtg on this one.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

when I was in taiwan, they have like these cameras every couple of miles, which was really annoying. But to make them legal, the gov't had to post warnings with the distance left until the camera while on the freeway/local streets.

a way the ppl there figured out a way to avoid this was a special spray that you could buy that makes your license plate look like a shining piece of white when the camera takes your picture so you can never get caught.

surfermax92

I'm wholeheartedly against these cameras. My Mom recieved one of these for running a red light in san diego to the tune of $300+
They said that she could challenge it, but she would have to show up in court in S.D. A few months later we read a newspaper article about how s.d. abused the systems, shortened the yellows and used the cameras solely as a money making enterprise.
I agree with mzmtg that they violate the constitution and that it's one step toward a 'big brother' type future.

nadir_s

Here in california, they stoppd sending the pictures w/ the ticket. Apparently they had some big problems w/ it... for example, the husband runs the red light, picture of taken of car (front back) and a couple weeks later, mail comes in and wife opens it.... to find her husband w/ another woman (i guess she was already suspecting he was cheating on her)... you get the point.

That's about the only thing i learned from traffic school lol

NYCe MaXiMa

iTrader: (9)

Well, I bet you that less people run the red light at that intersection than nearly every other intersection in my area that sees the same amount of traffic.. simply because people know if the cameras and know of the consequences, you just can't outsmart it, you WILL be caught.. even if it's really close, where a cop might have some leniency, the camera doesn't. The consequences are less severe, cheaper fine (50$ or 75$ for 1st offense as opposed to 100$) and no points (as opposed to 2-4 points) yet you WILL be caught, don't even take the risk..

The fact people brake hard to avoid running them is better than them running it and hitting a person or another car and causing an accident. If they can run the red and know there is a chance they can get away with it, a very big one at that.. then they will.. i see other intersections here, that are fairly dead, especially at night.. where people slow down, look around for cops, dont see any and go.. if they had cameras, i dont think theyd do that..

NYCe MaXiMa

iTrader: (9)

technically, they prove that the person behind the wheel of YOUR car at that exact time, going through that particular intersection ran a red light. They provide pictures that clearly show your license plate and they have a recorded time. I do not remember but I'm sure they give you some kind of chance to appeal it.
You can appeal anything these days..

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Oh, man!! Talk about BUSTED!

DW

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

I'm not playing devil's advocate. I have very strong feelings about this issue.

If a police officer stands on the side of the road and writes down my plate when I run a red light, I can have the opportunity to question him and attempt to counter his testimony. This basic right is totally removed when automatic cameras are used. That is the problem.

DAREN

iTrader: (3)

in the event of the the camera ticket who is listed as the "accuser" wouldnt it be the "state of ..." with the camera as the "witness."
if that is the case then you always have the oppurtunity to face your accuser, the state.

The_Bomb

I'm not sure about the camera's at lights, but on a photo radar van that clocks your speed, the "accuser" is which ever officer pulled the radar trailer out there. In most cases the cop just leaves the trailer there and lets it take pictures, and then signs his name to all the tickets, so technically he never witnessed you speeding.

Adam

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Slippery slope.

blizz20oma

iTrader: (1)

Yea, but all girls don't have accompanying robots that double-function as a chastity belt like Princess Vespa in Spaceballs the second some action is about to go down.

I just think it's a messed up way to enforce a law that should have some slack and human analyzation built into it. Guilt is kind of relative in that situation to me.

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

Yep.

Exactly.

If a camera recorded someone that looked like you from behind committing murder, but never showed your face....wouldn't you like a little more proof?

Frank Fontaine

This is how simple it is--it's treated like a parking ticket. No points, no questions who was driving. The registered owner either pays, or disputes it. Or, reports who was driving. I understand you can't see what they sent me in the mail, but there are 3 photos with time stamps, which is pretty darn hard evidence showing the vehicle passed through the red light. I'm still not understanding why you feel a person has the right to commit an infraction and not pay a fine when caught. A nanny cam catches an au pair slapping a child, and that nanny's rights have been violated by catchting the act on camera? That's what the ACLU says. They are such a joke that I can't believe they're serious when I see them on CNN.

Seriously, if you really believe in what you say, I suggest you go to law school, because there are plenty of shylocks with law degrees making money defending criminals and in many cases getting them off on technicalities. This bu****** goes back to the 1800's, so it's nothing new in the USA. If you feel that strongly, why not turn your beliefs into cash? My philosophy is so much simpler--do the crime, pay the fine! I've wasted more than $75 worth of my time posting to this thread I started!

Padsy

iTrader: (1)

Guilty until you proove yourself innocent.

T-bone

iTrader: (1)

Those cameras pull down A LOT of ca$H for their districts! I think they are a good idea because they DO reduce red-light-running. However, when the yellow is only lit for less that 2 seconds, I think that they become a hazard.