All other threads will be deleted from the forums unless they are in the Off Topic forum. Thanks.

 

Thank you Kev. Would you think it would be appropriate to move the first thread started over to join this one?



It's official: WE ARE AT WAR
This really hits me hard for some reason. If you feel you answer to a higher power now would be a good time to plead for the people in combat, civilians caught in combat, and the families of combatants. To you younger people don't think this is something to take lightly. This could possibly be the beginning of a very different world as you know it.

 

what the hey...

tidbit of info since it hasn't really been reported other than by FOX:

we attacked Afghanistan at the same time as Iraq. 1000+ forces stormed 3 suspect villages believed to be housing or supporting Al Qaeda. Geraldo Rivera is with the 82nd Airborne that led the attack.

 

Damn Chris,
Are you sure you are telling us everthing. My theory is that you have a cousin or someone you know very well over there right now working on racking up the worlds largest cell phone bill by being in continous contact with you giving a play by play. J/K Thanks for the update.

Viva Le Fra...wait a minute, F the french! I just hope this all pans out to prove that there is more in Iraq than meets the eye so we aren't portrayed as the school bully. If Bush pushes his own agenda and it doesn't work out, this could really put a dampner on foreign relations.

 

Maybe he'll get shot and be finished once and for all. Friendly fire or not, that is the question.

 

Prayers go out to all our troops and their families!
Let's hope everyone returns home.

 

Our thoughts and prayers are with our troops!

 

A awesome picture just thought I would share it

Thought you would enjoy this!
It is a Great photo of an Air Force training squadron flying in
a never-done-before "USA" formation over the control tower
"Taj Mahal" (HQ building) of Randolph Air Force Base in
San Antonio, Texas.
Pray for all our young men and women serving our country and
going into danger that we might preserve our Freedom.
And pray for wisdom for our leaders.

 

Great material for the bulletin board here at work. =)

 

On one of the news sites they said US Marines and Iraqi troops were clashing at the Kuwaiti border with "heavy artillery fire".


They thought they had Saddam last night but it looks like they missed him!

 

I don't think it would be that easy to kill him. I was watching the history channel yesterday and they had a special called: "why can't we kill saddam"... pretty interesting.

unfortunatley saying that we're going to war and for no one to die is impossible.

 

i was under the impression that were not supposed to just kill a country's leader. almost like it was a world code. but obviously thats not the case now.

 

My prayers are with our troops. I hope the war is a quick one and not too many people die.

Having said that, I will say that this is a unjust war. The whole world is against us in this war. Pres. Bush claims to have 30 countries on his side, but have you seen the names of these countries...Ethiopia, Eteria, Columbia, Bulgaria, Poland, Krygistan, etc... Bush probably bribed them to say that they are with us. Only major country with Bush is Britain and that is it. This war is not about weapons of mass destruction nor about human rights violations in Iraq, this war is about advancing the agenda of a few people in the Bush administration. These people feel that with America being the sole superpower, this is the right time to remap the political map of the world to their liking.

Some things to think about...

- In 1988 when Saddam gassed the his own people(the Kurds) and killed 182,000 of them, why did it take the Reagan administration 3 months to protest? Why is the Bush administration bringing this up now?

- Donald Rumsfeld(U.S. secretary of defense) admits to giving Saddam chemical weapons and now we accuse him of having them. Off course he has them, we gave them to him!!!

- If going after countries with weapons of mass destruction is a priority, why not go after North Korea first, they admit to having them. Actually they pretty much dare us to attack them. Bush wants to use diplomacy to find a solution with North Korea, is it because victory is less certain against North Korea?

- Why not take the weapons of mass destruction away from Israel, India, Pakistan, China, France, they all admit to having them. It is because victory against all of them is uncertain and being the bully that he is, Bush is going after a small country whose a*s he can kick very easily.

- Why didn't the older Bush finish off Iraq 12 years ago?

I've babbled on too long. These are all just my opinions and I do not wish to flame anyone with my comments. Peace.

 

Saddam will be caught and/or killed, long live W!!!!!!

 

I don't agree with this war at all, but my prayers go out to the troops and and everyone over there giving their lives!!!

[size= 3]COME HOME SAFE SCOTT, YOU MY DAWG FOR LIFE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/size]

 

That would have been enough. Use your first amendment rights to put all that other garbage in a book. We should not be on this thread to voice our opinions as to if we think this war is just or unjust. There is no place for that in hear. Save that for the off topic forum. Allthough I didn't vote for Bush, we as an american people voted him to office.
I started this thread for us to voice our concerns for the well being of everyone involved and caught in this war. I repeat this will not be turned into a political soapbox. That is all.

On a lighter note: thank you for your concerns.

 

I dont want to flame anyone either but whose war is this? It seems its Bush's. Before with old bush, we had so much support, now we dont. Lot of people tell me its for the oil.. if thats what its for then thats wrong. These troops weather they like it or not have to go. I support America, but not the government. Bush is a warmonger and i know people want to stand behind him but think of all the people that are gonna die for no reason.. troops and civilians. That whole country is behind saddam it is tru. But why send our troops and not just blow the hell out of him.. thats what im saying. Honestly i think this could have been prevented... he should took more time and convincing more countries. Oh well too late now. But one thing I dont get is why they want soo many troops there when they can just bomb all the bunkers and building saddam owns.. I just hope this doesnt take even an uglier turn and we all suffer. I would say we but... Bush has ****ed off a lot of countries and its not good for our future.. Every country liked president Clinton, no one likes bush.. wonder why? one of my friends said only reason gore didnt get elected was because his vice pres was gonna be a Jew. If that is true it shows how hollow we are. This country is supposed to stand for peace... what have we shown the world?

Hope this war ends quickly and the fatalities stay to a minimum.

 

isnt he concerning himself by saying that not a lot of people die? you cant have a thread like this without people putting in an opinion. if your gonna flame everyone, no one will want to post and that is a loss to you and everyone else because you wont see points people make. And it is your right to put your reason and not hear someone to tell you to put your crap in the book.. everyone has a concern over this war.. its like that.

 

who are yout to tel him what and what he can't say??? the post is about the war, he has every right to say what he said..stop being ignorant and closed minded!!!

 

This will not be turned into a political soapbox!

I realize that we all have our views of the situation and they may be very different from each others. However, when I started this thread I did not put forth my views of this war. I only started this thread as an outlet to voice our concerns for our own people and the innocent going to be caught in the crossfire. also updates as to the progess of the events taking place. Please take the time to go back to the first 5 posts to get an idea as to why Kevin let this stay here for us--and read them for ignorance sake.

Da-Max and Oxidizer2k refer yourself to the last sentence please.

 

You contridict yourself many times in your post...you say use your first amendment rights but not here, only in a book, are my first amendment rights only limited to writing in a book? Also, please explain why my comments and opinions are garbage?

I can agree to posting somewhere else, I only posted here because a moderator suggested to put all war related postings here.

Regarding Bush's election, the Supreme Court appointed Bush as President, he lost the popular vote. Anyway he is just that, a President in a democracy, not a dictator who can do whatever he wants. He has to be accountable to the American people and to the parents of solidiers that are not gonna come back alive.

I was voicing my concern and my concern is that some of our soldiers are going to die in an unjust war.

You are welcome...God Bless America and all its freedoms!!!

 

I mean, i wasnt hounding you, i was just saying that no matter what the purpose of this thread, the war gets to people emotionaly, weather you admit it or not. I think this thread is good for people to vent and it could help people feel better.. and I know you dont want that soap opera.. so i wont cry.

 

okay lets see....the title of the thread says:

"Talk about the war in this thread only..."

have we violated that?? have we gotten "off topic"??

lets see, Kevs first post says:

"All other threads will be deleted from the forums unless they are in the Off Topic forum. Thanks."

nothing about not being be able to express your own opinion in there is it??


now if this thread was titled "Show Support for Our Troops"...youd have a valid argument and the post that jatt806
made would have been innappropriate for this post! but it wasn't, so where is the violation???

I'm not here to argue about this, because its really trivial, but my point is no where in this post does it say opinions can't be expressed...if it did I would fully understand why you reacted the way you did...but it doesn't. this downing of others opinions is why the country is split the way it is now over this situation...opposing views aren't valued and considered valid, they are always quelled and hushed.

 

DA-MAX - Thanks for the support. I also didn't think I was posting in an inappropriate thread. This Tampa guy thinks like Pres. Bush, either agree with him or you're wrong, end of story. I'm done venting now, back to talking about modding the maxima.

 

Jatt806...the book comment was a reference to another medium(msp?) in which to express your opinions as to why you thought this war is unjust, nothing against you. Nobody and I mean nobody will ever know why things happen on a global scale such as what is going on right now. There will always be speculation and slanted facts presented as evedience. We do not need 'case and points' to justify our view this only leads to a political debate.

 

1. Tampamax... no one iniated specific rules for this thread so please don't tell someone to take their thoughts elsewhere...


Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan (post-conflict only), South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan.

There are some pretty major countries in there besides the UK and there are 15 which wish to remain anonymous for now.

who knows...that was 15 years ago

Quote:

- Donald Rumsfeld(U.S. secretary of defense) admits to giving Saddam chemical weapons and now we accuse him of having them. Off course he has them, we gave them to him!!!

got proof? i know we've supplied them with certain weapons but this is the first i've heard of us physically supplying them chemical weapons..

it's not just about the weapons of mass destruction in general. Iraq is NOT allowed to have them. Simple as that. They have them. They also harbor and aid terriorists. Iraq is a lifeline of major terrorism groups. The aim is to take that out along with ridding the country of the weapons of mass destruction.

You like to make assumptions about who would kick who's butt in war. Those countries have them for self defense as do we. They don't threaten to use them against other countries like Iraq has in the past hence they're not allowed to have them.

to finish them off would be to take Saddam out. Back then he would be a martyr if we took him out. now the stakes and the situation are completely different. the only way to finish "iraq" aka the Saddam regime is to take him and his officials out.

 

i thought this thread would be a happy thread amongst members but apparently not.

 

I don't see many "major" countries besides UK, maybe Australia and Spain. I don't see Lithuania, Latvia, and Slovakia has "major" countries.

My point exactly, it happened 15 years ago, but Pres. Bush uses it as one of his excuses for going to war.



No I don't have any proof in my hands but, I heard about this on the news, Rumsfeld admitted to giving chemical weapons to Saddam to use during his war against the Iranians in the 1980's.


Let me ask you now, you got proof that Saddam has them? If he has them, no one has seen them. 4-5 months of inspections have not found them. Bush administration has yet to convince anyone in the world that Saddam is linked to terrorists. Where's the proof?

Please tells us when Iraq has threatened anyone with weapons of mass destruction?

I will agree to your last statement but wouldn't he be considered more of a martyr today since the other Arab countries are less excited about the war this time?

Thanks for a good discussion.

 

(in ref to some posts)I think we should stop waring with each other and realize these are opions and its our rights.. so listen and speak respectfuly.. this is war.

all I can say is that no one can blame a whole country for what happens and will happen. I sometimes forget that in some of these countries people dont have any choices or rights. Remember when you mention Iraq that Saddam controls everything there.. remember and think of people that will loose their lives and think how we are lucky that we are not in their position.

Let us not call a whole people terrorists or hateful because the insane want to kill everything and everyone who is not like them.. if we judge we can also be judged. Remember, timothy mcvae (ock city bomber) does not represent our ideals. And to talk about bush, i thought he worked for the people.. and if the people didnt and dont want war why is he going with it anyway? I just ask because you as well as I want safty for our families... and when you read this post, dont flame, just tell me if you understand what i said and things you agree and disagree and give me your point of view. Peace out.


BTW in protests people are burning flags.. theres no reason for that. the country didnt do anything wrong. (just a thought)


Turkey isnt supporting the US in the war, they just let us borrow air space.

 

 

they are part of the coalition....

 

Then why doesn't Turkey let us use their roads for moving troops from the Med. Sea to Northern Iraq?

 

really? I thought they werent.. I dont know.. its all messed up.. I thought they didnt want to give us use of their air base or something like that... but i think they are afraid that if they dont help us the relationships between US and Turkey will suffer.. but i did think turkey didnt want part until today.

 

right before the attacks they gave us the go ahead to use their air space to launch attacks from

 

Italy, Japan and a few others could be considered "major" depending on what type of support they are providing. Remember there are 15 unnamed countries and I wouldn't be suprised if a few of them are the big players.

Like i said i'm pretty sure they weren't chemical weapons. That just wouldn't fly with country and the world. IIRC they were simple warheads. If they were converted to chemical weapons then that's another story but i doubt we specifically supplied chemical warheads.


Iraq specifically isn't allowed to have weapons that can reach certain distances. They were found and were not destroyed but rather dissassembled. Iraq only shows inspectors what they want to see. Do you know what's in all those tunnels beneath the city? I sure as hell would like to find out. I seriously doubt they're empty. I'd put money down that after this conflict is all said and done the proof will be clear.


they constantly threaten Israel, Kuwait, etc...



I honestly don't think he's going to die because of his religious beliefs. He's going to fight till the death so he doesn't have to be captured and live life outside of being the leader of Iraq. I don't think he holds a true religious bearance on this and is totally on a power trip. That's my opinion though...

no prob. i like good discussions once in awhile. i've never decided if i support the war or i don't. i support our troops and have faith in our government system to do what's right. If they fail us they we can compare them to the UN in failing to do their job and this country will be at a loss.

 

Organized and very well said!

 

Well done chris!! I say we drop the bomb on Iraq and create a new waterfront community, Lake Dubya

Sincerely yours from DC,
Jason

 

First, let me say this... Chris has pretty much taken the words out of my mouth with his posts here.

Second, after reading some of the profiles of the members posting in this thread, I find it AMAZING that some of you have yourselves listed as "students", and yet, you have so obviously not taken the time to educate yourselves about the reasons for this war. The war is NOT about oil. It is NOT about Bush. This war is about disarming a rogue government who has, time and again, tried to use it's military and it's "influence" in the Arab community to wage war against free people. Saddam Hussein INVADED another country, for God's sake!!! No civilized nation has done that in decades! You may ask, "Well, then why didn't we take him out 12 years ago?" The answer is, simply, to kill Hussein 12 years ago would have led to a LESS stable Middle East. But, to remove (or kill) him now, would not. There are more and more FREE nations popping up all over the Middle East, and regime's like his, where the people of a nation are forced into submission every day, are becoming fewer by the minute.

Now, to clear up a couple of misconceptions that have been posted here... The nation of Turkey is a Democracy, just like we are. The nation of Turkey, a couple of weeks ago VOTED not to allow the US-led coalition to use their land bases. They VOTED!!! While it might have made our job a little easier, a democratic society decided against it. (They have since VOTED again, and have allowed the coalition to use their airspace to wage war on Iraq. That makes them a part of the coalition.) The point here is, how could anyone possibly be against liberating the people of a suppressed nation? Perhaps in another 12 years, if we have to go back into the Middle East for some reason, it will be the Iraqi people who VOTE, either for or against something that affects a war. They may very well vote against it, but praise God for giving them the freedom and opportunity to vote for their actions.

If you will look at the list of coalition nations, you will see a trend. Many of them are nations who, not too long ago, were liberated from years of oppression and tyranny, much like the people of Iraq are being liberated now. Can anyone name a single nation that, after freeing it's people, they decided to give up that freedom and return to a life of servitude??? There have been none. Freedom is that important. I dare say that we take more for granted in one day, than most Iraqi citizens will have in a lifetime. Those who support our cause are the MAJORITY, not the minority. Don't let yourself be swayed by the propoganda that is telling you that we are operating alone in this. As an example, 14 of the 25 European Union nations are backing us fully, with another several backing us quietly.

On to the question of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Someone asked if we can even prove that they have them. Yes. Just today, Iraq fired BANNED missiles at our troops in Kuwait. Were they chemical weapons? No. But, they are BANNED weapons, period. Saddam has just proven that the USA is right, and the others (France, etc...) are wrong. Have you noticed how many countries, just today, after the missiles were launched, have "decided" that they now support the coalition? Nobody likes to be made a fool of, and today, Saddam Hussein made a fool of many countries by using the very weapons that they were denying he had in the first place. Anyone posting on this board who thinks that they have better intelligence information that the President of the USA about what weapons Hussein has or does not have is a fool.

This post is getting long, so I'll wrap up for now by saying this... Thank God for our RIGHT to come here and express our opinions. Thank GOD for the RIGHT to oppose the war if we so choose. Thank GOD that our military is the most powerful in the history of the world, and that it's might is used to further FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY around the globe.

Educate yourselves, people. If you are anti-war simply because you don't want anyone to die, then you are foolish. If you are anti-war because you think that we should have waited forever for "diplomacy" to work, then you are misguided. I haven't met a single war protester who had a solution to the problem. Yes, war is ugly, but it is also effective. If 1,000 American soldiers have to die to free a country of millions, then isn't it worth it? If it's not worth it to you, then I dare say that you are not anti-war, you are anti-freedom. A society will never further itself through oppression of it's people. The world will only prosper if it is free. Thank God for those who are willing to try to help others gain that freedom.

Pray for the troops on both sides.

 

i'm surprised that many people dont agree with this war.

i am not 100% sure of wat's going on in this war and how it came about but i believe Sadaam needs to be taken care of before he gets out of hand. he's beeen building up an army for many years and he acts suspicious when questioned. so there's no doubt in my mind that he's been plotting something big, and who to stop him but the U.S.

go W

 

see a nice educated discussion...although I don't agree with everyones statements on "why this war is happening" and the motives behind it I'm not gonna get all up into it, because I talk about this day in day out on one forum or another and its driving me crazy But its good to see various viewpoints though. either way the war is already going on...so only thing we can do now is await the end result whether we agree with it or not. I just hope ALL the troops come home safely.