Help me out here, In a lot of the sigs around I find SC'd 4th gens running 14.1 - 14.7 in the 1/4. And pretty much the same for 5th gens (00-01).

The biggest difference is is the FWHP, you guys are gaining a ton of HP with the SC...up to 370whp or there abouts.

My question is....Why is the HP rating so high, but you are not running much better 1/4 times....relatively speaking.

It just seems to me, whats the use in buying one, when you are not realizing the "performance" gains...velocity wise.

It's difficult for me to drive my sc'd auto because of wheelspin.... It's gotta be ridiculous launching and sc'd 5spd... After practice, I got down from a 2.4 60' with the sc to a 2.1 (where i blew the setup hehe)...

Thats kinda what I was thinking.....Wheel spin.

Wheelspin and weight!! Most of those cars at the track are coupesremember that are lighter than our cars.

Deac

I know.....I was compairing a SC'd max to a non-SC'd max.

One word: traction.

They still might not get better than a 14.0, but if you look at the trap speeds, they're significantly higher at well over 100 mph in many cases.

MardiGrasMax ran 11's with juice and boost and the MEVI on slicks. When you have slicks, traction is no longer nearly as much of a limiting factor. Now the limit is the FWD platform.

You *are* gaining velocity wise. But because you can't get off the line without spinning you are just not gaining as much on the ET as you could be. On street tires I think these guys can't even go WOT until 3rd gear, and maybe not even 3rd! With a heavily modded FWD car you will always have more power than traction.

I was hoping you were going to read my thread....yay!!

I knew you would have a scientific reason....but like I originally thought its all a case of power to the street.

Thanks Steve.

i wanna Supercharger!!!



eric

traction, i'm not buying that... yeah our cars spin when you get power, but get used to it folks and work with it instead of just complaining about it. granted I soo wish my car was RWD , its not. and cant/wont be. so i've learned to take fwd for what it is and run with it.. 12's on street tires? tell me traction wont let you into 13's.. also isnt superchargers power come in what do you call linear? so off the line you have less boost? i have full boost at 2500 , crazy.

BUILD IT.......They Will Come

I was always wondering the same thing Padsy.

How is it that my ~315hp (crank) 3000lb. 5spd Maxima is only a tick or two (or not even) faster then a 380hp 4600lb. 4spd Auto Lightning? Granted it has 460lb-ft of torque but still. And the same with Camaro's....how can my friends 325hp 3400lb. '99 SS 6spd be faster then my car? In theory, to be as fast as me, it should be making around 350hp. Torque and RWD make a difference, but come on? What's wrong here?

ALOT of different factors craig. Just like how my 200~ horse max can beat my friends 95 5.0 Stang with 215bhp and 280+lbfts. obviously weight of the vehicle, gearing of the vehicle, traction or lack there-of, as well as the biggest factor....the driver...

eric

Nothing is wrong. Torque and RWD really do make that much of a difference. How much power do you have at 3000 rpm vs an LS1 or a Lightning? You might be surprised at how much of a difference there is.

I know that the N/A 5.7L V8 is gonna make it's torque a lot differently then I do, and so does the 5.4L V8 SVT with it's "roots" type blower.

Let me ask you this. Say my V1 blower was a "roots" type instead of linear. Say I hit almost full boost at 2900rpm instead of just starting to make it. With the same amount of HP/TQ, same psi, same everything, would there be any difference? This i've always wanted to know.

Turbo.

plus it takes more power to get better time. It will take a lot more hp and skill to get a 13 something versus a 14 something...the variable changes exponentially...its gonna be hell and a half to hit 10's

Why is the LS1 so much stronger than your car? Power under the curve my friend. Look at the power curves of the LS1. Torque is as flat as Kansas and HP just keeps going until 6000rpms.

The Lightning on the otherhand is a 1/4 mile beast because it makes huge amounts of torque down low, but in the upper rpms is where they really suffer. Case in point when I was at the track last weekend, two 2002 Lightnings were running. I don't if they had mods, but it's usually safe to assume so. The quickest one hit a 13.8@98mph and the other hit a 14.4@97mph. I was able to pull a 14.45.@99.5 and I'm NA. Thier ability to launch hard is the key.


Dave

I would think with the traction being such a problem more people would be investing in some nitto 555. ive seen them at about 120 per tire for 17s. My rustang buddy has em for his 99gt and it helps his launch ALOT.

I agree work with what you got. If I can run 1.8 60's and David does too then its possible to do better. It just takes trying different methods of weight transfer, weight distribution etc etc.

A RWD is not the answer, I want to get the best 60' possible with a FWD. Buy a Mustang if or some other piece of sheit if you want RWD.

Hey. It's not MUCH stronger. Yes it certainly feels faster for the reasons you mentioned, but i'm not too far behind.


I guess that's what you get for having natural displacement over small displacement and boost? A flatter, harder, more natural torque curve.

There were lightnings down here at Orlando Speedway too, several of them. They were running around the same times. I'm very confident i'd beat him bad from a 40mph roll. He's got 20" rims too so..


Dave, if you were to drive my car, I bet you'd run a lot better then me. I'm confident that you would easily hit a 13.6 with the 18x8.5's. I have W-rated 245/40 Nitto 555's that have incredible grip. They handle much better then my old H-rated Kumho's.

Damn you.

But seriously, would there be a difference?

Area under the HP & torque curves as someone said... It doesn't matter if your peak HP is 500 if your curve is hovering around 150 hp most of the time... Gearing is also a major factor, when you shift into a new gear are you right at the perfect spot on your power curve?? Not to high? not to low? I had an '81 Malibu that was running 14s with a highway gear.. swapped in some 3:73s and hello 12s!

Here's a whole slew of LS1 dyno graphs, check out the "power":

http://www.ls1howto.com/dynos/

It's amazing to me that a 16 valve PUSHROD motor WITHOUT any kind of variable timing/intake is able to sustain such flat and powerful curves for so long. Lowtech the riceboys say? BS, the numbers speak for themselves. It's too bad the F-Body was such a POS (I owned one, I know) and it's too bad Ford is clueless on how to make power without the use of a blower.

Compare the LS1 graphs to the turbo/SC Maxima graphs and you'll see why an LS1 will almost always pull away from the Maxima with the same power. Flat torque is essential to topend acceleration.


Dave

So with only a few slight intake tweaks, the LS1 puts 308hp to the rear wheels. So, probubly close, if not over 300rwhp stock? The 325 crank rating is way off then, more like 355.

If my blower built full boost by 3k, given all variables the same, would it make me any faster? (then building gradually from 3k to redline?) One feels faster, but is it really?

The problem is it's not a track car.

It would rip most cars setup for the track to shreds on the highway, once moving...THats why you buy it.

I think you have too much confidence in my driving A 13.6 should be very possible assuming your car does indeed hook up thru most of 1st and the rest of the gears. On drag tires, low low 13s should be possible and even 12s. If I could pull a 2.0 60' in my NA Max, I'd be easily in the 13.8-13.9 range at 100mph. Seeing that you've got substainally than me, a 13.6@104 should be easy on the 18s. Pretty much any car capable of 104-106mph trap speeds, is capable of low 13s/high 12s with a 1.9 60'. Why you'd want to drag on the 18s is beyond me though. Lighter weight rims and taller tires are far easier to control and modulate off the line plus they're less prone to bogging out the motor.


Dave

My first time running at the track will be horrible. I'll be soo nervous. I'll run 14.9 @ 104mph with a 2.8 '60

You still moving down to Florida sometime in the next few years Dave? You think you'll still have the Max then?

Hey look at this dyno comparison of a stock Maxima and a stock Prelude. The Prelude has more peak horsepower, and hell it even weighs less, yet the Maxima is still the faster overall car and will kick the Prelude's butt through the 1/4 mile.






Go figure.

Wind up to 3000rpms, slowly slip the clutch, and feed it a little gas. Try to come off the line right where boost comes on. You might not be able to go full throttle right away either. The trick is not to get too greedy with the throttle at first. Pay no attention the green light. Take your time and worry about improving your reaction times on another day.

As for Florida, it's always a possibility.


Dave

what did he trap? what do you trap? thats who will win from the 40 roll i raced holley's mustang, yeah it looked to the crowd that he ran me with a 12 flat... but I trapped 2mph faster. guess who would win from a good roll ? hehe

my favorite is people who disregard trap speeds, they mean much more than times to me, i dont really care what time you ran ... my favorite is people i know who run just crazy bad times and insanely good traps haha - so maybe they aren't a perfect driver (14.4 @ 119mph best) or have stock tires on a fully built h22 5th gen prelude w/ larger turbo too haha... I love that kind of crap, my tuner runs insane times in his gsx, his best is a 9.x i believe , but his most recent pass , with street tires was 13.0 @ 139 or something insane like that hahaha , with all 4 spinning at 100mph he was goin sideways at the 1/8th mark haha - i love it. he needs to run on his slicks, but didnt the most recent time - i guess for humor? haha, he was even scared and he is a crazy guy

and just like your dyno "guesses" , it is all fun and games until you get out there and do it, a lot of times things don't add up as they did in your "perfect world" head. (not to bash - just stating its all talk until its done)

I agree with the trap speeds agrument in that they show which car "could be" ultimately the quickest, but where is the fun or bragging rights if you're running mid 13s or higher at 115mph. Yeah, it's impressive, but it shows that the motor completely overpowers the chassis. I don't see how it's fun when your spinning your tires through 1st, most of 2nd, and some of 3rd. My Z28 would sometimes get traction problems thru all of 1st and some of 2nd and it was annoying. Spinning means your not accelerating very well at all. I guess I'm old school in that I want my ETs to closely reflect my trap speeds. Most track guys know that tires and suspension are the two most important things you can do for performance on the track whether it be 1/4 mile or road course.


Dave

Having just installed a SC, and seeing that I go to the track a lot, I'll chime in.

I've already noticed that launching this car is a ton more difficult than NA. Also, as mentioned the tires can break loose even while in second and thrid gear.

NA was launch, and just floor it all the way down the track.

SC'd is going to take a lot more pratice and care with the throttle.

I'm confident I'll get high 13's on the stock SC pully, but it may take me a few times out to get the hang of it.

Track opens 4/13!

I'll be going back to the track soon, in street trim on street tires, no juice just to see what she does when I'm every day driving. Will be interesting.

Mid to high 12's. Good luck!

With 14psi I'm sure the term "linear smooth boost" has no meaning to you.

Its very smooth actually, check my dyno plot, very smooth!