I have my power belt off, and ill tell you one thing its 2 x the gain the underdrive pulley was, im very bewilderd on why they dont use electric pumps. 1st and 2nd gear pull harder, revs drop slower,smoother towards redline. I just ordered a electric PSP anybody have any knoledge on how easy or hard this will be to hook up. And i like when you turn the wheel the revs dont jump up and down anymore, also better MPG

 

Hmm can I get more info on this. This sounds interesting.

 

well the only car that i know for a fact that uses electric PS is the new Z4, and im guessing it will be a big job to do and not worth the money.

 

Electric pumps still have to get power from somewhere. Power doesn't come from thin air. If it's not getting it directly from the driveshaft, it's going to use the power from the alternator, which in tern will put more strain on the driveshaft, eliminating the removing of the power steering pump. A loaded alternator is harder to turn than an unloaded alternator.

Unless the electric one is a lot more efficient than the power one, which in that case, will make a noticible improvement.

 

One ive already been driving for a week with it of and for a FACT this gives more power than a underdrive pulley , like i said i have the UP and the gain is nowhere near what i felt taking the PS off , next the electric unit is about 10 lbs lighter. Trust me EPSP are the future . And the slight drag that the alternator produces mayby could take 1 hp but the electric will gross 7 hp. Read this quote from jan 2002 SCC " A first for U.S Honda models is the use of Electrical power steering , eliminating the need for a POWER-ROBBING and weighty pneumatic pump. Honda cites a 2 percent fuel savings with EPS , and we can cite exquisite steering , no matter the vehicle's speed. "
And i will probably have a tighter steering feel.My EPS is in the mail.

 

There are lots of new vehicles that use electric power steering. This is a very interesting project.

Keep us updated

 

About 4yrs ago I suggested to a Taurus forum using a A/C style *clutch* to cut off the Power Steering Pump at WOT for added acceleration (who, on the road, steers much at WOT?) and I got laughed at for the lack of gains...

So am I right in thinking that the PS is run by it's own belt off the crank? Cool - no belt routing issues, custom belt lenghts or fabrication of an idler to replace the PS pump in the belt routing. Just remove the belt/pump and mount the electric pump in it's place, tweak the lines and fab up a custom bracket...

Be VERY sure you are confident that the electric PS pump is reliable - that would ruin your day if it crapped out as you were driving. Also bear in mind the additional liability that you could face if you made a modification to the steering. If an attorney can show you made a sloppy mod then any accident you cause by a failure of that mod could see you face hard times. Failure of your factory pump is one thing, failure of a modified pump could be considered negligence unless you can prove you did good work.

Not trying to discourage you - just want you to make sure that the quality of you work can stand up to very close scrutiny. The steering is one of the few major safety-critical systems where a failure at speed will probably cause a crash, similar to brakes or tires. You'll be better off on so many levels with verifiably good work than if it's a ten-minute hack-job. (not that I'm saying your work is a ten-minute hack-job normally... )

 

I actually wasn't going to mount where the PS was, i was going to mount it next to the winshield washer filler. Another thing ive been driving without PS for a week its almost acceptable now ,i must be heman its not that bad ,but my wife cant drive my cobb mobile now. Another good thing i see about this is i can have it where at a flick of a switch i can turn the PS off,and hve vary tight steering for high speeds.
The PSP that i ordered came from a 2003 civic SI $80.

 

\



Where did you order it from???

 

www.car-part.com
i got the only one left. what your looking for is 2002 and up civic SI PSP there all electric.

 

Let me get this straight. Instead of the ps pump being driven by a belt, you're going to power it by an electric motor, which in turn is powered by the alternator, and you think you are going to save a substantial amount of power?

Bullsh*t.

Maybe I'll get one of those electric superchargers from ebay so I don't lose all that power from turning the blower with a belt.

 

Your a jacka$$ read the whole thread and mayby you will understand .

 

You're a dumbass and need to get an education.

 

If this will gain as much or more than a underdrive pulley its worth it,i would do this to gain 1 hp thru the entire powerband.I knew it will be more than that. You who knows it all is smarter than BMW and honda, go tell them its bull**** and they need a education, if you read the mag quote you will see the positives. You were busting my ***** about it ,you were saying that you thought i was spinning the stock PSP with a electric motor ,this is not the case if you read it.The next thing one has to relize is when your driving at 3000rpm and in a turn , that pump does not need to spin at 3000rpm but it has no choice. All you need is like 700-800rpm the electric pump spins at a low rpm. And like i keep saying i will be able to turn it on and off. Even if you disagree with what im saying this mod for a fact will pay for its self and them some . Check the quote from honda in my top post.

 

Stephen does have a good point, along with my other point up above. For example:

Have you ever noticed that when you turn on your headlights and fogs, you can hear your engine strain? That's lost horsepower right there. I'm betting the same will happen when you do finally install the electric PS pump. You'll turn the wheel, the electric ps pump will start drawing more current, in turn causing the alternator to start generating more current, which in tern will put more strain on the engine.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the stock PS pump does have a mechanism to disengage the pump when the PS pressure reaches it's operating pressure, and engages when the pressure drops. Otherwise the PS strength would be completely relative to engine speed.

The electric PS pump does have some advantages. Electric pumps are probably more reliable than mechanical belt driven ones. Definately lighter than a belt PS pump.

But in terms of gains, I'm pretty sure it will be very very minimal.

Also make sure the civic PS pump outputs the same pressure that the stock one does. Too much, and you could blow some parts in your PS, too little and your wheel will still feel very heavy.

So the final solution to get more power:
turn off your stereo, turn off your lights, unplug your cell phone charger, turn off all unneeded electrical accessories, and that'll be about 10hp right there.

 

Does anyone have any good information on how much load is created by the PS pump and alternator?

Remember that the whole concept of UDPs is that the accessories don't need to be driven as fast as they are and/or don't like to be driven with the engine at 6500rpm.

Think of this - Jegs sells electric water pumps... To reduce parasitic loss. There'd gotta be something to it.

 

we talked about the idea of using an electric power steering pump in one of my classes - the professor is a sponser of a "future-truck" project between Ford and Georgia Tech

it definitely sounds like a good idea
I'm not sure exactly how the civic pump works, but one of the main advantages that he mentioned is that you can use a few sensors to detect movement on the steering wheel and only then turn on the pump. This means that the pump will not be on and not taking any power away from the engine or electrical system for the majority of the time that you're driving - when you're going straight.

 

It does sound interesting. I say go for it, who cares if you gain 1 or 10, it's an experiment of sorts. But I echo one reader's sentiments of "BE CAREFUL" and do it right. No crashing into phone poles please.

ARFF

 

The major erroneous assumption of this thread is that simply replacing a belt-driven PS pump with an electric one will reduce engine parasitic losses and add HP. This is incorrect. As StephenMax mentions, the power to run a hydraulic PS pump has to come from somewhere. Not only that, but most importantly an electric PS motor is NOT a hydraulic pump, it's just an electric motor. It is not compatible with our system. The electric PS motor mounts directly to the steering rack or steering column, either of which are designed specifically to be electric power steering compatible. There are no hydraulics. There are also additional sensor(s) and electronic controllers to monitor steering input/speed/etc to vary steering boost appropriately.

The primary benefits of the electric PS system are twofold:
1) System only works on demand. There is no continuous parasitic power draw. That is, it's off during straight line driving, then turns at various rotations speeds to add the appropriate amount of steering boost. A belt-driven hydraulic pump turns all the time, in proportion to engine speed, and a flow/pressure regulator is used to throttle the pump flow to achieve various steering boost levels.
2) All the hydraulic components are removed in an electric PS system. The motor mounts directly to the steering components (rack or column). The hydraulic system adds additional parasitic losses to the engine as well as increasing complexity. The electric system removes all that.

In summary, an electric power steering system needs to be engineered from the factory and cannot simply be thrown in place of an existing belt-driven hydraulic pump. What Krismax has done is ordered a particularly novel desk paperweight, because that is the only use he's going to get out of it. Won't work on a Maxima.

** PART NINE OF MY LECTURE SERIES, "I OWN YOU BEAATCH" **

(Just kidding)
I admit I was curious also and had to research this to get more information. Too bad, would have been interesting. Electric steering is purdy kewl stuff.

 

Thanks, Keven, for your detailed and eloquent exposition. You said what I meant but was too lazy to write down.

Krismax, I apologize for my arrogant and mean-spirited replies.

 

 

how about just removing the ps belt altogether? I learnt how to drive on a vehicle without ps and will quite eagerly do it again....downside is my gf wont be able to drive my car...otherwise i like the idea.

 

on a 3rd gen, the p/s belt also goes to the water pump
maybe you could get a smaller belt and just go from the crank pulley to the water pump though if you wanted to try that

 

The 4th gen power steering pump runs on a dedicated belt off the crank. You can simply remove the belt to disable the power steering.

Don't know if that such a great idea though. Unless you got 22" pythons for arms, it's gonna be more than a wee bit difficult to maneuver in a parking lot.

 

I might have this working in a few weeks,parts under $100

 

Hope to see this thread bump up in a few weeks.

Saturn is using electric power steering, but I don't think they use an electric motor in place of the belt. They do away with the power steering pump entirely, and replace it with a smart motor servo that senses vehicle speed and your turning direction, effort etc.

I am curious to see what you have in mind ... especially for under $100.

Please take special care to the motor specifications, especially motor stall and steady state curent. Do not tap off an existing fusible link, I would recommend that you run a new fusible link directly from the wire, especially since you're in the 'testing' phase. Don't want the power to go out while you're driving if your electric motor stalls, etc.
(If you're not using an electric motor, just ignore most of what I just said).

 

I will be using a electric motor, with gearing . The motor wont be much bigger than a clenched hand. The pulley will come of the PSP and there will be a rubber coupling between the PS shaft and motor. I'm keeping this very simple ,i have a on off switch on the dash right now for this, for low speed it will be on , for highway it will be turned off. I'm not even looking for the stock preasure mine will spin at about 500rpm.
But all of this will have to wait along with my throttle body i planed on putting on yesterday I was stoped in traffic when a car smashed into me from behind and then took off, on monday ill find out whats going on.

 

You ever get the pump working?

 

As postaed above i just got my car back from the autobody shop, so i havent been working on it, i will have a setup sooner or later ive been improving on my designs the pump and electric motor will probably be side by side,with gears attached. Theres a place by me with all the motors and gears. I dont think i will have a problem spinning the pump at 450rpm.

 

Now hold on there a minute professor.

Be it crank driven or electric, the PS pump is a hydraulic pump .

If the Honda pump volume, pressure etc... are compatible, why wouldn't it work?

Unless we have stumbled onto the perpetual motion machine, the energy to run the pump must come from somewhere. Yes the alternator will have to work to run it. Yes it is less efficient to convert crank motion to electricity then convert electricity to pump motion.

If you had asked me, and you didn't, this would be my advice:

Install the electric pump. Assumes compatibility, you will know shortly after you hook it all up.

Wire the alternator and AC compressor such that they cut off at WFO. This used to be a common modification on muscle cars. Let's figure out how to do it on a Maxima. At WFO you will have no PS load, no AC load and no alternator load. God, what a country!

Why would you caution against a PS modification on the same forum where brake and suspension modifications are rampant? Be careful. Do it right.

This sounds like one of the best modifications I've heard of lately. Please keep us posted on the progress.