De-stroking the 3.5L via 3.0L crank AND connecting rods
08-25-2003, 06:28 PM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,018
Originally posted by IceY2K1
Rev limiter wouldn't be a concern unless you COULD stroke the VQ35.
If you're going NA, then I'd just go with the complete bottom-end VQ35.
If you going FI, then VQ32(VQ35 block/pistons w/VQ30 rods/crank) or VQ33(VQ30 block/pistons w/VQ35 rods/crank) might be possible for the cost of a junk-yard VQ35, which seems to be ~$850. Otherwise, just buy VQ30 or VQ35 low CR pistons, depending on what motor you have, and turn up the boost.
Rev limiter wouldn't be a concern unless you COULD stroke the VQ35.
If you're going NA, then I'd just go with the complete bottom-end VQ35.
If you going FI, then VQ32(VQ35 block/pistons w/VQ30 rods/crank) or VQ33(VQ30 block/pistons w/VQ35 rods/crank) might be possible for the cost of a junk-yard VQ35, which seems to be ~$850. Otherwise, just buy VQ30 or VQ35 low CR pistons, depending on what motor you have, and turn up the boost.
08-25-2003, 06:41 PM
#42
Originally posted by MardiGrasMax
Although I think using ARP head studs will strenghten the headgasket seal enough that the stock rod will go first.
Although I think using ARP head studs will strenghten the headgasket seal enough that the stock rod will go first.
How is the headgasket going to fit the VQ30 head and VQ35 bore?
08-25-2003, 09:23 PM
#43
Originally posted by IceY2K1
What headgasket are you going to use that fits, 350Z?
How is the headgasket going to fit the VQ30 head and VQ35 bore?
What headgasket are you going to use that fits, 350Z?
How is the headgasket going to fit the VQ30 head and VQ35 bore?
The head gasket is larger than the combustion chamber, but not allot, will be just fine. All oil and water holes also look just fine.
08-25-2003, 10:14 PM
#45
Originally posted by SR20DEN
I never should have mentioned the word 'wear'. It's being taken out of context and blown out of proportion.
I never should have mentioned the word 'wear'. It's being taken out of context and blown out of proportion.
The wear will just be in a slightly different area than what is normally seen on a VQ30/35
08-26-2003, 07:13 AM
#46
Originally posted by IceY2K1
SGP 8.5:1 Forged VQ35 Pistons $1,320:
http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-sto...ra8fopise.html
SGP 11.5:1 Forged VQ35 Pistons $1,320:
http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-sto...ra11fopis.html
SGP 8.5:1 Forged VQ35 Pistons $1,320:
http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-sto...ra8fopise.html
SGP 11.5:1 Forged VQ35 Pistons $1,320:
http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-sto...ra11fopis.html
08-26-2003, 10:41 AM
#47
Originally posted by Stephen Max
Those are absolutely gorgeous.
Those are absolutely gorgeous.
I wonder if we could talk them into making low CR pistons for the VQ30.
08-26-2003, 01:44 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
Like the ones that come in the VQ30DET? Those are 9.0cr and the pistons from the VQ30DD are 11.0cr. I'm sure anyone with "connections" could get the part #s for those pistons so they can be available for US VQ30DE's.
Originally posted by IceY2K1
Sure are...I'm hoping SGP keeps products like those coming.
I wonder if we could talk them into making low CR pistons for the VQ30.
Sure are...I'm hoping SGP keeps products like those coming.
I wonder if we could talk them into making low CR pistons for the VQ30.
08-26-2003, 05:51 PM
#51
Originally posted by Nismo87SE
Like the ones that come in the VQ30DET? Those are 9.0cr and the pistons from the VQ30DD are 11.0cr. I'm sure anyone with "connections" could get the part #s for those pistons so they can be available for US VQ30DE's.
Like the ones that come in the VQ30DET? Those are 9.0cr and the pistons from the VQ30DD are 11.0cr. I'm sure anyone with "connections" could get the part #s for those pistons so they can be available for US VQ30DE's.
Would you have "connections" Mr. Nismo? I don't think DAVEB would have any clue about JDM stuff.
I'll look in to it though. Thanks.
08-27-2003, 08:39 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
You'll probably have to contact Nissan Motorsports to get the JDM pistons. If you want a catalog call Nissan Motorsports at 310 538-2610. They are
located in Gardena, CA.
located in Gardena, CA.
Originally posted by IceY2K1
Hmmmmmnnn....I'd heard rumors, but I don't know the specs..
Would you have "connections" Mr. Nismo? I don't think DAVEB would have any clue about JDM stuff.
I'll look in to it though. Thanks.
Hmmmmmnnn....I'd heard rumors, but I don't know the specs..
Would you have "connections" Mr. Nismo? I don't think DAVEB would have any clue about JDM stuff.
I'll look in to it though. Thanks.
09-16-2003, 12:12 PM
#54
Originally Posted by TILLEYS99
if someone can come up with a definite CR I will try this I got 2 VQ30DEs one DET and a VQ35DE so I got the parts. I was gonna go with the SGP pistons but dont have the money to spend right now.
Two things you MUST try:
1)VQ33DE = use VQ35 crank/rods to stroke VQ30DE.
2)VQ32DE = use VQ30 crank/rods to DEstroke VQ35DE.
According to DAVEB the VQ30DE heads aren't going to work with the VQ35DE without some major work, so I'd try 1) first, but if you get around to 2), I'd be
.
09-16-2003, 12:56 PM
#55
One way to measure CR:
http://www.mix-net.net/~red/uccr.html
I've seen the Land Speed Racing guys use a method something like this, but without separating the head/engine. At least on TV.
How to calculate? Quite simply, it is (volume of cylinder at BDC + volume of combustion chamber at TDC) divided by (volume of combustion chamber at TDC).
The volume of the cylinder is easy....... (radius of bore in millimeters) X (radius of bore in millimeters) X (3.14159) X (stroke in millimeters). Then divide your answer by 1000 to get the cylinder volume in cc's.
The volume of the combustion chamber at TDC is not a simple cylindrical shape so its' calculation is not so direct. One way is to remove the head and coat the upper cylinder area with a thin layer of high quality (CLEAN) grease. Then rotate the motor by hand to EXACT top dead center (use a solidly mounted dial indicator) and wipe off ALL the excess grease. This will leave a thin coating between the cylinder wall and the uppermost ring creating a leakproof seal. Reinstall the head and level the engine referencing the spark plug gasket surface...... DO NOT rotate the motor from exact TDC!! Fill the combustion chamber with Marvel Mystery oil (CLEAN!) from a graduated burette (available through medical supply stores or notably from an outfit such as Powerhouse Performance Products in Memphis) just up to the bottom most thread of the spark plug hole. Note how much fluid was drained from the burette from its' original "before filling the combustion chamber" volume. Now use this volume in the formula described above. Presto!
The volume of the cylinder is easy....... (radius of bore in millimeters) X (radius of bore in millimeters) X (3.14159) X (stroke in millimeters). Then divide your answer by 1000 to get the cylinder volume in cc's.
The volume of the combustion chamber at TDC is not a simple cylindrical shape so its' calculation is not so direct. One way is to remove the head and coat the upper cylinder area with a thin layer of high quality (CLEAN) grease. Then rotate the motor by hand to EXACT top dead center (use a solidly mounted dial indicator) and wipe off ALL the excess grease. This will leave a thin coating between the cylinder wall and the uppermost ring creating a leakproof seal. Reinstall the head and level the engine referencing the spark plug gasket surface...... DO NOT rotate the motor from exact TDC!! Fill the combustion chamber with Marvel Mystery oil (CLEAN!) from a graduated burette (available through medical supply stores or notably from an outfit such as Powerhouse Performance Products in Memphis) just up to the bottom most thread of the spark plug hole. Note how much fluid was drained from the burette from its' original "before filling the combustion chamber" volume. Now use this volume in the formula described above. Presto!
I've seen the Land Speed Racing guys use a method something like this, but without separating the head/engine. At least on TV.
09-16-2003, 01:20 PM
#56
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
One way to measure CR:
http://www.mix-net.net/~red/uccr.html
I've seen the Land Speed Racing guys use a method something like this, but without separating the head/engine. At least on TV.
http://www.mix-net.net/~red/uccr.html
I've seen the Land Speed Racing guys use a method something like this, but without separating the head/engine. At least on TV.
09-16-2003, 03:42 PM
#59
Originally Posted by TILLEYS99
I just checked and the head gaskets from the 3.5 line up with everything on the 3.0 so the heads should fit
It has a couple extra layers, ie stronger.
09-16-2003, 04:31 PM
#60
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
IF you go with the VQ35 block, get a 350Z head gasket.
It has a couple extra layers, ie stronger.
It has a couple extra layers, ie stronger.
09-16-2003, 04:33 PM
#61
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
And that would slightly lower overall CR, correct? Even if it is only .1 or so...
09-16-2003, 06:24 PM
#63
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Sure are...I'm hoping SGP keeps products like those coming.
I wonder if we could talk them into making low CR pistons for the VQ30.
I wonder if we could talk them into making low CR pistons for the VQ30.
09-22-2003, 09:55 AM
#65
Can ANYONE working on a VQ35, ie Mardi, Tilley, SR20DEN, etc.... PLEASE please take a deck height measurement for the VQ35? Also, the head gasket thickness of the VQ35 and deck height of the VQ30DE would be great!
Deck Height: Distance top of piston stops from top of bore. eg: .030 thousand of inch.
Deck Height: Distance top of piston stops from top of bore. eg: .030 thousand of inch.
09-22-2003, 05:32 PM
#66
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Can ANYONE working on a VQ35, ie Mardi, Tilley, SR20DEN, etc.... PLEASE please take a deck height measurement for the VQ35? Also, the head gasket thickness of the VQ35 and deck height of the VQ30DE would be great!
Deck Height: Distance top of piston stops from top of bore. eg: .030 thousand of inch.
Deck Height: Distance top of piston stops from top of bore. eg: .030 thousand of inch.
Per the FSM's deck height is the same.
Head gaskets are very close too.
09-23-2003, 03:35 AM
#68
FSM:
VQ35DE:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.030mm (0.0004 - 0.0012in)
VQ30DE-K:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.032mm (0.0004 - 0.0013in)
edit: Can't find the Head gasket thickness.
VQ35DE:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.030mm (0.0004 - 0.0012in)
VQ30DE-K:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.032mm (0.0004 - 0.0013in)
edit: Can't find the Head gasket thickness.
09-23-2003, 04:06 AM
#69
If you dont mind me asking really quickly, could you define the following:
Swept Volume:
Also where does the rod ratio come into play? I'm assuming its Bore:Stroke?
Also I dont think you can stroke on of these motors out far enough to cause problems. VE's (well and VG's) have the largest stroke of all the engines, and I have been in one spinning 7000rpm (maybe 7200?) It didnt hit the rev limiter either.
I just figured I'd throw this out there:
Spec's from FSM's (bore x stroke (inches, sorry Matt))
1994 VG30E 180.62ci (3.43 x 3.27)
1994 VE30DE 180.62ci (3.43 x 3.27)
1995 VQ30DE 182.33ci (3.66 x 2.886)
2000 VQ30DE-K 182.33ci (3.66 x 2.886)
2002 VQ35DE 213.45ci (3.760 x 3.205)
2004 VQ35DE 213.45ci (3.760 x 3.205)
Now I know that alot of those are replica's, but I figure when these questions come up in the future, people can just refer back to this thread, then hopefully find this post, and wont ask any more questions trying to compare these specs again (ie 4th gen 3.0l vs 5th gen 3.0l, and 5th gen 3.5l vs 6th gen 3.5l)
Swept Volume:
Also where does the rod ratio come into play? I'm assuming its Bore:Stroke?
Also I dont think you can stroke on of these motors out far enough to cause problems. VE's (well and VG's) have the largest stroke of all the engines, and I have been in one spinning 7000rpm (maybe 7200?) It didnt hit the rev limiter either.
I just figured I'd throw this out there:
Spec's from FSM's (bore x stroke (inches, sorry Matt))
1994 VG30E 180.62ci (3.43 x 3.27)
1994 VE30DE 180.62ci (3.43 x 3.27)
1995 VQ30DE 182.33ci (3.66 x 2.886)
2000 VQ30DE-K 182.33ci (3.66 x 2.886)
2002 VQ35DE 213.45ci (3.760 x 3.205)
2004 VQ35DE 213.45ci (3.760 x 3.205)
Now I know that alot of those are replica's, but I figure when these questions come up in the future, people can just refer back to this thread, then hopefully find this post, and wont ask any more questions trying to compare these specs again (ie 4th gen 3.0l vs 5th gen 3.0l, and 5th gen 3.5l vs 6th gen 3.5l)
09-23-2003, 04:19 AM
#70
Since I also like to use metrics aswell (seem to be abit more precise) here you go Matt:
1994 VG30E 2960cm^3 (87 x 83mm)
1994 VE30DE 2960cm^3 (87 x 83mm)
1995 VQ30DE 2988cm^3 (93 x 73.3mm)
2000 VQ30DE-K 2988cm^3 (93 x 73.3mm)
2002 VQ35DE 3498cm^3 (95.5 x 81.4mm)
2004 VQ35DE 3498cm^3 (95.5 x 81.4mm)
one wierd thing I did find though, is the FSM for the 2004 Maxima states it has a 10.0:1 CR, but everything points to it being a 10.3:1 CR, So I'm thinking typo. And yes, I could have said "cc"'s but its been awhile since I've had a use for the ^ key
1994 VG30E 2960cm^3 (87 x 83mm)
1994 VE30DE 2960cm^3 (87 x 83mm)
1995 VQ30DE 2988cm^3 (93 x 73.3mm)
2000 VQ30DE-K 2988cm^3 (93 x 73.3mm)
2002 VQ35DE 3498cm^3 (95.5 x 81.4mm)
2004 VQ35DE 3498cm^3 (95.5 x 81.4mm)
one wierd thing I did find though, is the FSM for the 2004 Maxima states it has a 10.0:1 CR, but everything points to it being a 10.3:1 CR, So I'm thinking typo. And yes, I could have said "cc"'s but its been awhile since I've had a use for the ^ key
09-25-2003, 02:23 PM
#71
Originally Posted by MrGone
FSM:
VQ35DE:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.030mm (0.0004 - 0.0012in)
VQ30DE-K:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.032mm (0.0004 - 0.0013in)
edit: Can't find the Head gasket thickness.
VQ35DE:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.030mm (0.0004 - 0.0012in)
VQ30DE-K:
Piston clearance to cylinder block 0.010 - 0.032mm (0.0004 - 0.0013in)
edit: Can't find the Head gasket thickness.
That seems small now that I play with the numbers.
I MUST find out the gasket thickness now.
10-20-2003, 05:28 PM
#72
Oooooh....latest Turbo&High-Tech Performance has:
Top Secret VQ34-Powered Skyline GT-R
Not much details besides twin TS N1 turbos putting out 532whp at 1.3bar, but hopefully more will come soon.
Top Secret VQ34-Powered Skyline GT-R
Not much details besides twin TS N1 turbos putting out 532whp at 1.3bar, but hopefully more will come soon.
10-20-2003, 07:36 PM
#74
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Oooooh....latest Turbo&High-Tech Performance has:
Top Secret VQ34-Powered Skyline GT-R
Not much details besides twin TS N1 turbos putting out 532whp at 1.3bar, but hopefully more will come soon.
Top Secret VQ34-Powered Skyline GT-R
Not much details besides twin TS N1 turbos putting out 532whp at 1.3bar, but hopefully more will come soon.
I bet it has the VQ35 bore but de-stroked slightly for 7000 rpm to keep the piston speeds in check. That's sweet!
10-21-2003, 09:11 AM
#75
They did say it's basically a 350z engine.
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
ooOooOooOooOOooooo!!!
I bet it has the VQ35 bore but de-stroked slightly for 7000 rpm to keep the piston speeds in check. That's sweet!
I bet it has the VQ35 bore but de-stroked slightly for 7000 rpm to keep the piston speeds in check. That's sweet!
10-21-2003, 11:46 AM
#76
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
ooOooOooOooOOooooo!!!
I bet it has the VQ35 bore but de-stroked slightly for 7000 rpm to keep the piston speeds in check. That's sweet!
I bet it has the VQ35 bore but de-stroked slightly for 7000 rpm to keep the piston speeds in check. That's sweet!
10-21-2003, 12:09 PM
#77
I can see benifits from this if your going to race long term. As in running hundreds of race speed laps. Take a look a nascars for example. They are built for huge rpm capabilites. Same with F1 and those engines have a stock of like an inch and a half. I don't know exactly what they are but you get the idea. Destroking would allow the engine to rev higher with an ecu and valve train adjustment. Wouldn't it be reasonable that the VQ engine could rev to 8K with the changes.
10-21-2003, 03:28 PM
#79
Originally Posted by broaner22
I can see benifits from this if your going to race long term. As in running hundreds of race speed laps. Take a look a nascars for example. They are built for huge rpm capabilites. Same with F1 and those engines have a stock of like an inch and a half. I don't know exactly what they are but you get the idea. Destroking would allow the engine to rev higher with an ecu and valve train adjustment. Wouldn't it be reasonable that the VQ engine could rev to 8K with the changes.
A relatively SHORT 81.4mm stroke should ahve NO problems revving over 9000 rpm. The Nissan 350Z GT2 racecar uses a VQ35DE block bored +1mm and the SAME stroke of 81.4. It does not make peak power untill 8000 RPM.
10-21-2003, 04:12 PM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
ooOooOooOooOOooooo!!!
I bet it has the VQ35 bore but de-stroked slightly for 7000 rpm to keep the piston speeds in check. That's sweet!
I bet it has the VQ35 bore but de-stroked slightly for 7000 rpm to keep the piston speeds in check. That's sweet!
There are a few vehicles with turbo variants that have slightly lower displacements than the NA versions. This could be because of using a lower compression ratio. Take Volvo for example. Their S40 uses a 1.9L motor in NA form. The turbo model however, is only 1.8L. The same goes for the S80. The NA version is a 2.9L, while the twin turbo T6 is a 2.8L.
I just think destroking would take a lot of work, possibly more than it's worth. If the motor is basically out of a 350Z, maybe Top Secret just got some 8.x:1 pistons or something, and that lowered the displacement.