It looks like this as been brought up twice before but not recently. Both the old threads are locked and the price has come down since they where started.

Thomas Knight make an Electric Supercharger that looks like it could be for real. It is not cheap and requires two additional batteries to power it. It requires most (all?) the accesories you would require with a regular supercharger. It also requires two high CCA batteries and several electrical switches and components. List of required components

It is now priced at $1995 for the blower only. The batteries they recommend are about $100 each. How much would the rest of the components run (FMU, etc.) and could this be a viable alternative to a real Supercharger? Perhaps if the price came down a bit more?

Are there any other companys that make a real electric supercharger? Has anyone tried it, seen one in person or seen a dyno not from the manufacturer?

 

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Interesting.

 

$2000 yea right....

 

My tire guy was telling me about this, and he is a VERY reputable NIssan guy. Only time will tell...

 

Are you saying that it is overpriced? If it uses a real blower that could be a big part of the $2000, right? About how much does a blower cost anyway? Edit -- And if it is like many aftermarket parts the street price could be much less.

And if you think it will not work please give a technical reason or personal experience and not simply 'it's BS'.

In any case I don't think this will be a viable alternative to a real SC unless the price comes down, but I am curious what others think.

 

Well heres my thought
6 Hp x 3 = 18 hp
18 Hp * 746 watt per hp (100% efficency, not realistic) = 13428 watts
13428 watts / 13.8 VDC = 973 amps !!!
973 amps / 3 = 324 amps per motor !!!
2/0 wire is recomended
man if that shorts out to chassis ground....

I mean if you've ever worked with that kind of power you would understand how dangerous this kit can be if installed wrong or you get into an accident or something. The arc would be like the equivilant of a small bomb going off in your car, not to mention the extra batteries would probally burst.

I honestly think for all the trouble its easier and safer to get a regular supercharger this seems like more work plus you only get 10~20 seconds of boost per charge. Not to mention its only the blower for 2 grand plus you need all the extra stuff.

Granted its a neat idea but as far as using electric motors for boost in cars the physics arent in its favor.

 

I mostly agree. There is nothing wrong with the idea of an electrically powered supercharger other than the fact of how much electrical energy it takes to power it. This isn't a new idea, manufactures of all kinds have looked into this over and over again, but to flow that kind of air, massive quantities of power are needed. I work in environments where our processes are largely dependent on air flow. Normal batteries have just not come to the point were than can power this type of system reliably, IMHO.

 

I posted about this about 3 months ago when Thomas Knight was showing me this system and telling me that it was going to be in Sport Compact Car, Turbo Mag, check the JAN issues. I sent the link to his site but no one here really seemed to believe that a true electric s/c would be feasible. It is drawing over 400 amps from 3 starter motors at ~36v from 3 extra odyssey batteries and this is roughly 15,000w that was stated earlier that can be converted through a very efficient roots setup at around 85% efficiency to make around 20 psi. Check this link, www.boosthead.com Thomas Knight has built turbo and s/c kits for 15+ years and has finally made a electric design that works. Prices are in the infancy of development and will definitely come down with mass production and larger industry players coming online to sell this. You get more than the earlier mentioned 20 seconds of boosting time from these batteries, it is more like 60 seconds and you could rig a continuously charging system if you wished to further the capabilities. N20 is good but at $35 per fill it will easily cost more in the long run and don't forget this boost comes on at wot at any rpm not only at approaching redline so the effects will be very similar to a turbo getting to spool time or a strong Nitrous shot. I just look at the fact that it has been done and not one person to date has done this before him. This works and it will revolutionize the industry. Flame on.

 

the kit looks ghetto.

 

What makes an electric supercharger attractive is the possibility of much better control of boost. You wouldn't have to be limited by engine speed or exhaust gas velocity, for instance. You could have a controller that turns the blower on only when you want it, but without the lag of a turbo system. You could program a controller to give a perfectly flat torque curve throughout the rpm range and with near zero lag time, something you can't do with either a supercharger or turbocharger.

 

it does seem appealing, but why is the cost so high... ever pic was broken on that link you posted (for me atleast) any idea on how the system would be recharged, or would you charge it back at home? Whole thing sounds odd

 

Yea Nissan is gonna utilize part of that concept with motor assisted turbos in the new GT-R. Can't wait to see the torque curve on that...

 

I think it's because of the blowers they use, they're pretty expensive. And from other things I've read, it would be charged by the car's charging system since it's essentially another electrical device. I could be wrong, that's just what it looked like in the description and what Allgo posted a while back.

 

yea, it would be charged by the cars system...but needs two higher capacity batteries and uses so much juice, it can only be used in tiny bursts. meh

 

I would do it if it proves reliable and the price comes down. Cheaper than nitrous in the long run.

 

interested,,,,,

 

if it works, and install is easy enough...how big are those batteries?

 

well people are pushing a peak of 10 psi? with supercharger? this can push up to 20 psi? thats a big difference...how much hp we talking? And what in the heck would we use to recharge this? our alternator? we have so much trouble using alternator for our sound system already... I think supercharger blower is like 900 dollars...

As far as 20-60 seconds of boost. A race on the track lasts less than 15 and if you continuously boost for over 30 you'll be going over 200 mph (if possible)

 

Adding batteries = adding serious weight

 

This would be a lot more attractive if/when auto makers ever convert over to a 48V (42V?) system, something that is being talked about. That way you could provide a lot of power with less current.

 

Each of those batteries weigh 13-15.4 lbs depending on if you get the heat shield.

Here's a link to the PC 680.

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/specs.htm

 

gimmie 20 D series batteries - Radio Raheim

 

so what's next, the revamped mini nuclear ractor core pushing out 100psi? sorry not buying the (new) electric motor thingie @ 20psi working off 2 extra batteries and some wires. wtf

enough said.

 

Luddite.

 

Sweet! That's used so often and usually incorrectly. Good job.

But, now prove any of the electric supercharger gains are for real. All I've seen is hype so far. Where's the car on a dyno? Where's INDEPENDENT before and after?

To say he resists change, first you have to show there's something worthy to change to.

 

Other than the website referenced in the original post, I don't have any proof. I have read in auto mags that auto makers are interested in the concept.

The important thing though, is that there is nothing theoretically unsound in using an electric motor to power a blower, there are only practical issues in making a useable system. And there are some very attractive features about an electric supercharger from a control aspect.

Unfortunately, the $50 ebay electric superchargers have prejudiced people against the concept.

 

There is no way in hell it can rely on the alternator to recharge it... especially not if they have the 3 batteries hooked in series for 36V. Aside from that, an alternator is simply incapable of pushing anywhere near the kind of power this would require.

98SEBlackMax figured something like 900-1000A? Forget about it... this is a short-term recharge setup.
The only way you could really do it continuously is by installing a second, huge alternator that can haul 1000A... in which case it draws power from the engine through the belts to continually float-charge the batteries while under boost.
At that rate, it's much simpler to install a regular supercharger... all the electric unit buys you is more control over the boost.

I was going to add a piece about having an electric supercharger using 3-phase AC power (i.e. have a big alternator with no bridge rectifier, putting out raw 120VAC or 240VAC), but the problem there is you couldn't store charge in the battery (or if you did, it'd severely complicate the system), so you'd lose the control over the boost curve...

 

For an intermittent duty system running off a standard alternator, the batteries would not need to be recharged in series. It is simple enough to have a recharge circuit that charges them in parallel at 14V, albeit at a rate much too slow to use for continuous blower duty.

1000A at 36v is 36 kW, or about 48 hp. That would be enough to push 550 cfm at 20 psi. The high current is probably the biggest concern, but at only 36V, that just means large enough wires to reduce Ohmic losses.

For continuous duty, present day alternators are about an order of magnitude too weak. Aircraft alternators are presently running at over 40V and at a significant current (I don't know what), and the day is coming when 42-48V automotive alternators are standard equipment.

 

Ehhh some more thought on this whole idea, I need something to distract me from my finals studying.

Well they recomend 3 2/0 cables holding 12 V and 350 amps for each motor. Deezo mentioned the weight of the batteries as being an issue well if we go by what they recomend for cables thats about 90 pounds of extra curb weight just for the power cables alone. (2/0 wire is 2.5 pounds per foot 3 * 12 feet (batteries in trunk) = 36 feet total x 2.5 = 90 pounds)

This whole system is gonna be at least 200~250 pounds of weight by my estimate. We would need to eliminate the batteries and long lengths of 2/0 cable to reduce the curb weight and complexity.

Hypotheticly lets say if this was made to function without batteries and operated on a seperate 100 Vdc/150 amp alternator. It would provide the 15 kW these motors need to function and they could run all the time when the engine is running. This alternator with 100% efficency would consume about 20 Hp (more like 25~35 hp in reality), which isnt to bad provided there claims of 75~100 hp gains are real. If they were to develop it this way then I would say it would be a viable system, provided if its affordable and doesnt produce alot of extra heat.

But then at that point it would be like a regular supercharger system with the added step of transfering mechanical energy to electrical and then back to mechanical again. But you would gain the ability to control the boost and tq curve at any given rpm range...

 

100psi? pansy stuff. your average turbo diesel truck (box truck, 18 wheeler, haulers) run 50-100 on a sequential turbo. whats the record? its a couple hundred or something. Also, using RC parts, i could probably create more CFM and therefore PSI. one of my mildly tunned electric motors can do 43,000rpm, of a much smaller battery than the one they are talking about. the boost burts could last longer too...etc. You would need the shroud housing, but no biggie

 

:insert useful reply here that got erased after the server deciced to lag and not reply:

gotta love it. i am too lazy to retype it all.

note to self: copy and paste all posts to notepad prior to clicking submit button.

 

yea....server does that what was your response ABOUT

 

CFM times psi is power. A low power system can generate a lot of cfm at low psi, or high psi at low cfm, but not high cfm and high psi. How many kilowatts can your battery produce? As I said earlier, 550 cfm at 20 psi requires about 48 hp to produce, or 36 kW. For reference, a 3 liter engine boosted to 20 psi would use 550 cfm at about 4400 rpm.

 

Well higher wound armature motors produce more torque, and it could be done for cheap. Depends what battery i use, i have really high watt/low volt batteries, and a could ammount of them. Not sure sure on the killowatt rating, but I know the MAH rating

 

You wanta what. C battery? You wanta C battery?

 

...20 D batteries, wired in series, thats what he said

 

D Miky fiki <-- edited for Network Televsion .. I said D Micky Fiki

 

Why not just pipe a giant ram air into your intake or add 2 100 hp motors to power the rear wheels!!

 

How much does a Stillen SC weigh?