Is this lame or what!!!
Is this lame or what!!!
alex!
I'm looking into my crystal ball and I see an aftermarket opportunity for someone to supply computer "fixes" for this problem.
No different than radar detectors, the battle goes on!
No different than radar detectors, the battle goes on!
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,024
BMW has been using them for years in their M3's & M5's.
Chevy has them in their Corvetts and I'm sure there are a lot more car mfg. using them as well, especially in top performance vehicles.
Chevy has them in their Corvetts and I'm sure there are a lot more car mfg. using them as well, especially in top performance vehicles.
They are already in use almost 100% in large commercial trucks. Ambulance chasing lawyers love getting subpoenas to see the info we (I work for one of the largest commercial cariers in North America) gather from them when one of our trucks is involved in any "incident" with a civilian. The average greedy moron in a jury wants to award any "innocent" motorist 3 million in damages for a fender bender that was probably their own fault for not respecting the space a large truck needs and causing the accident themselves. The data from them can be awfully misleading a lot of times.
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 112
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Originally Posted by i30krab
I'm looking into my crystal ball and I see an aftermarket opportunity for someone to supply computer "fixes" for this problem.
No different than radar detectors, the battle goes on!
No different than radar detectors, the battle goes on!
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 473
Yeah folks, this is gonna be worse than we think. Look at Britian and their speed cameras.At least they have to see you to nail( I meant Mail) you a fine....
Combine this EDR rule with I-Pass / Open Road tolling ( or whatever its called in your state) and cops can set real-time speedtraps. How many times have yall crossed a county/state line and suddenly you got an army of police Radaring/Lasering the road?
Now we can enforce with precision! Beware the on-ramp challenge with that Mustang. A "safety computer" can deduce you both racing and issue you tickets before anyone even wins the race....
...But the good news is, well.... I got another reason to roll in ze Max till the wheels fall off lol....
Combine this EDR rule with I-Pass / Open Road tolling ( or whatever its called in your state) and cops can set real-time speedtraps. How many times have yall crossed a county/state line and suddenly you got an army of police Radaring/Lasering the road?
Now we can enforce with precision! Beware the on-ramp challenge with that Mustang. A "safety computer" can deduce you both racing and issue you tickets before anyone even wins the race....
...But the good news is, well.... I got another reason to roll in ze Max till the wheels fall off lol....
I wouldn't worry too much about this anyhow. It's only relevant if you get in a SERIOUS accident and to get the information they have to have a court order/subpoena (which requires causeation). It's not going to transmit anything to cops on the side of the road, and IIRC the "black box" records in a continuous loop and catches the last 10 seconds or so before any "serious incident". If the incident is not serious enough to set off a trigger (i.e. airbags deploy or something), the loop continues and the "event" is not recorded. Nobody's going to be checking black boxes if you have a fender-bender, because the box can't give any relevant information in that case, unless it's a fender-bender at 100mph in a 25 zone.
Bottom line: it's not recording everywhere you go and how fast you went all week and whatnot...just the few seconds before an accident event.
So, if you're going 120mph through traffic and there's a good chance you'll get in a deadly wreck - you should be worried.
If you drive like a normal person and not recklessly - you have nothing to worry about.
Just calm down people :rolleye:
of course, the other thing to note is that ...while they may be "required standard equipment" on new cars at some point, there are surely loopholes to get around it under the auspices of privacy rights, self-incrimination, etc etc etc. It's a lawyer's dream.
Or maybe "oops, I accidentally unplugged it"
Bottom line: it's not recording everywhere you go and how fast you went all week and whatnot...just the few seconds before an accident event.
So, if you're going 120mph through traffic and there's a good chance you'll get in a deadly wreck - you should be worried.
If you drive like a normal person and not recklessly - you have nothing to worry about.
Just calm down people :rolleye:
of course, the other thing to note is that ...while they may be "required standard equipment" on new cars at some point, there are surely loopholes to get around it under the auspices of privacy rights, self-incrimination, etc etc etc. It's a lawyer's dream.
Or maybe "oops, I accidentally unplugged it"
Originally Posted by irish44j
I wouldn't worry too much about this anyhow. It's only relevant if you get in a SERIOUS accident and to get the information they have to have a court order/subpoena (which requires causeation). It's not going to transmit anything to cops on the side of the road, and IIRC the "black box" records in a continuous loop and catches the last 10 seconds or so before any "serious incident". If the incident is not serious enough to set off a trigger (i.e. airbags deploy or something), the loop continues and the "event" is not recorded. Nobody's going to be checking black boxes if you have a fender-bender, because the box can't give any relevant information in that case, unless it's a fender-bender at 100mph in a 25 zone.
that's very true..
most of them are closed loop 10-20 second systems. However the first year the SRT-4 came out (....04 was it?) a friend of mine bought his. We went to atco on a friday night and did a few passes and what not, and on the way home he went up through all the gears and shut down around 120.
The next night his transmission took a total ****. First year car, not the easiet driver, no big. The dealer refused to replace it and he had to pay full cost out of pocket. Why? The dealer hooked up his car and printed out 2 weeks worth of history showing all the atco passes, everytime he broke 100mph, when he shifted, etc. He tried to get a lawyer but he was in violation of warranty or some ****. He still has a copy of the Dodge printout.
So, some of them are a bit longer apparently.
The next night his transmission took a total ****. First year car, not the easiet driver, no big. The dealer refused to replace it and he had to pay full cost out of pocket. Why? The dealer hooked up his car and printed out 2 weeks worth of history showing all the atco passes, everytime he broke 100mph, when he shifted, etc. He tried to get a lawyer but he was in violation of warranty or some ****. He still has a copy of the Dodge printout.
So, some of them are a bit longer apparently.
not a clue. The guys on the SRT-4 forums were calling him a moron saying the car doesnt have one blah blah but it obviously did. My thought is for the first year they put these on so when people came in for service they could see how people were driving them and where to improve the car. It just happens to work against some people.
Originally Posted by scubasteve
most of them are closed loop 10-20 second systems. However the first year the SRT-4 came out (....04 was it?) a friend of mine bought his. We went to atco on a friday night and did a few passes and what not, and on the way home he went up through all the gears and shut down around 120.
The next night his transmission took a total ****. First year car, not the easiet driver, no big. The dealer refused to replace it and he had to pay full cost out of pocket. Why? The dealer hooked up his car and printed out 2 weeks worth of history showing all the atco passes, everytime he broke 100mph, when he shifted, etc. He tried to get a lawyer but he was in violation of warranty or some ****. He still has a copy of the Dodge printout.
So, some of them are a bit longer apparently.
The next night his transmission took a total ****. First year car, not the easiet driver, no big. The dealer refused to replace it and he had to pay full cost out of pocket. Why? The dealer hooked up his car and printed out 2 weeks worth of history showing all the atco passes, everytime he broke 100mph, when he shifted, etc. He tried to get a lawyer but he was in violation of warranty or some ****. He still has a copy of the Dodge printout.
So, some of them are a bit longer apparently.
Originally Posted by berts689
That is a load of crap, the state tried sending me a ticket in the mail cuz they "caught me on camera" double parking? wtf is that.
Why do we let these ***** regulate stuff they dont build or control.
Why do we let these ***** regulate stuff they dont build or control.
btw, traffic cameras are regulated by the state because streets are....
...wait for it....
....STATE PROPERTY.
The state DOES build and control the roads.....which is why they are allowed to regulate them@!
I would agree that it was dealer BS except that they knew every detail of the last few days he had been driving it. EVERY detail. When the dealer can hand you a printout showing you exactly how you drove your car to the last detail, you know they got the information. Theres a few other SRT-4 owners that claimed something along the same line for the first year models.
I know that with a bmw M5, if you don't follow the break in procedure, the dealership can tell , apparently the ecu records every time you hit the rev limiter, etc. and they won't honour the warrenty on the car...
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 473
Originally Posted by scubasteve
I would agree that it was dealer BS except that they knew every detail of the last few days he had been driving it. EVERY detail. When the dealer can hand you a printout showing you exactly how you drove your car to the last detail, you know they got the information. Theres a few other SRT-4 owners that claimed something along the same line for the first year models.
Hmm....this does make some sense.Wasn't this what some EVo owners were in a bother about last year when Mitsubishi wouldn't honor the Evo's warranties ?
It make sense from the Mfr's standpoint ....rather than have to trust the customer's word that a transmission failure after 10,000 miles is "normal", they just hit print and see who's tellin' the truth.
Its not all a bad thing. The first case of an ECU being used as evidence was when a drunk in a Grand Am killed two teens backing out of their driveway. He testified he was "speeding" 50 in a residential area.
The prosecutors got a court order to release the last "10 second" data from the Grand Am, whence the CAR testified that his speed was 120 mph. Hence why he sits ( justly ) in jail.
Think about that nest time someone you know gets in a serious drunk-driving or other accident .
Originally Posted by irish44j
I wouldn't worry too much about this anyhow. It's only relevant if you get in a SERIOUS accident and to get the information they have to have a court order/subpoena (which requires causeation). It's not going to transmit anything to cops on the side of the road, and IIRC the "black box" records in a continuous loop and catches the last 10 seconds or so before any "serious incident". If the incident is not serious enough to set off a trigger (i.e. airbags deploy or something), the loop continues and the "event" is not recorded. Nobody's going to be checking black boxes if you have a fender-bender, because the box can't give any relevant information in that case, unless it's a fender-bender at 100mph in a 25 zone.
Bottom line: it's not recording everywhere you go and how fast you went all week and whatnot...just the few seconds before an accident event.
So, if you're going 120mph through traffic and there's a good chance you'll get in a deadly wreck - you should be worried.
If you drive like a normal person and not recklessly - you have nothing to worry about.
Just calm down people :rolleye:
of course, the other thing to note is that ...while they may be "required standard equipment" on new cars at some point, there are surely loopholes to get around it under the auspices of privacy rights, self-incrimination, etc etc etc. It's a lawyer's dream.
Or maybe "oops, I accidentally unplugged it"
Bottom line: it's not recording everywhere you go and how fast you went all week and whatnot...just the few seconds before an accident event.
So, if you're going 120mph through traffic and there's a good chance you'll get in a deadly wreck - you should be worried.
If you drive like a normal person and not recklessly - you have nothing to worry about.
Just calm down people :rolleye:
of course, the other thing to note is that ...while they may be "required standard equipment" on new cars at some point, there are surely loopholes to get around it under the auspices of privacy rights, self-incrimination, etc etc etc. It's a lawyer's dream.
Or maybe "oops, I accidentally unplugged it"
Originally Posted by Dubbya
I guess you didnt read the part that talked about linking them to GPS? If its linked to GPS then they CAN track how fast you are driving and issue tickets.
Of course they "could" do that....they can track your location now using your cell phone.....but, like cell tracking it requires a WARRANT. To obtain a warrant, they need CAUSATION. There is no original causation, because the law cannot "assume" that just because you own a car you are going to speed.
There's plenty of technology out there that can track you everywhere you are, but just because it's there doesn't mean it will ever be legal to do so.
Note the part where the GPS tracking driver habits in rental cars was deemed illegal. And those are RENTAL cars! This kind of tracking of personally-owned vehicles would certainly be struck down by the courts.
Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge" for their scofflaw ways. While this inventive form of "revenue enhancement" was challenged and subsequently batted down by the courts
Now, is it true that some interstates cops and say, the NYS thruway system, for new york at least, has the time plotted out for how long it takes to get from exit to exit at 65 or 75 mph and uses that to give tickets?? like, say you get a toll ticket at 8 am getting on, exit 30. they know the minimum time it would take to get to say, exit 33 is 43 minutes at constant 75 mph, say you get off 33 and pay the toll at 8:28, ive heard some states can/are doing this. they know your obviously speeding, either by EZ-pass or by the toll ticket/camera and time it took you
Originally Posted by carsarecool
Now, is it true that some interstates cops and say, the NYS thruway system, for new york at least, has the time plotted out for how long it takes to get from exit to exit at 65 or 75 mph and uses that to give tickets?? like, say you get a toll ticket at 8 am getting on, exit 30. they know the minimum time it would take to get to say, exit 33 is 43 minutes at constant 75 mph, say you get off 33 and pay the toll at 8:28, ive heard some states can/are doing this. they know your obviously speeding, either by EZ-pass or by the toll ticket/camera and time it took you
In Virignia they used to have a system called VASCAR where a plane would time you going between 2 lines painted on the road to determine your speed and then radio down to a car to pull you over.
I don't think they can use EZpass like that unless they ahve a warrant or you sign a waiver allowing it. I dont' recall seeing any waiver when I got mine saying they could give the information to law enforcement.
Originally Posted by ArcticW
Its not all a bad thing. The first case of an ECU being used as evidence was when a drunk in a Grand Am killed two teens backing out of their driveway. He testified he was "speeding" 50 in a residential area.
The prosecutors got a court order to release the last "10 second" data from the Grand Am, whence the CAR testified that his speed was 120 mph. Hence why he sits ( justly ) in jail.
Think about that nest time someone you know gets in a serious drunk-driving or other accident .
The prosecutors got a court order to release the last "10 second" data from the Grand Am, whence the CAR testified that his speed was 120 mph. Hence why he sits ( justly ) in jail.
Think about that nest time someone you know gets in a serious drunk-driving or other accident .
Besides if the person was drunk then he is already f-ed and if he was rolling through a residential zone then he was really f-ed up and heading to jail before the computer data needed to be downloaded.
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>Numbers can be tweaked, think OJ here, the numbers/data didn’t lie but the way the evidence was gathered 'could' have been.
i.e. Say you tires are severely under inflated and caused your speedo to incorrectly read higher than it should be; or your ABS system has a failure and you lock up your brakes in a panic stop, now your speed reads zero and you are pressing the brakes...more or less telling someone you were stopped at that time of the accident (unless your computer has a g-meter.)
The best tool is to inspect the wreckage, tire marks, time of day, drivers involved, car dynamics like weight and bumper height, and make a picture.
There is no need for this crap, its too inconsistent too easy to be used for inappropriate purposes, imagine if the victims of the Ford-Firestone massacre were prosecuted for driving 5-10 MPH over the speed limit and causing the tire to separate.
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