NWP 00VI VIAS cup fix interest thread
I thought up of an idea about possibly having a new cup machined from aluminum to replace the cheap metal cup that tends to fail on the De-K power rod rather than going the JB Weld route. I have exchanged e-mails with Aaron at NWP about this. He is currently doing R&D on other projects as most of us know, so I don't want to waste his time with my idea unless there would be enough people with De-K's or 4th gen guys with the 00-VI swap that would want something like this. I'm aware that a few of you have already done your JB Weld mods and probably wouldn't be interested, which is understood. Aaron also told me that machining an entire power rod would be too costly and probably would not be something that would happen. Even with enough interest with a power rod cup made by NWP, if he was to produce it, it probably wouldn't be for a little while since he's deep into R&D with other products right now. So, it's just an idea at the moment. There are no definite plans to produce this right at the moment, it's just a poll to gauge interest. Thanks everyone!
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I have the jb weld mod on my list of things to do but never get around to it.
Speaking of 00vi , has anyone removed the power rob and just put a plate similar to the 3.5 guys? I noticed one guy in the FI section did. Im wondering if anyone else has, maybe the top end gains might be worth lossing alittle low end ? |
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
(Post 8229037)
I have the jb weld mod on my list of things to do but never get around to it.
Speaking of 00vi , has anyone removed the power rob and just put a plate similar to the 3.5 guys? I noticed one guy in the FI section did. Im wondering if anyone else has, maybe the top end gains might be worth lossing alittle low end ? You can remove the power rod and keep the VIAS actuator in place. It has to be removed from the other end of the intake manifold. However you want to remove the VIAS actuator first and take the metal cup off before you do so you don't risk the cup falling down inside the intake while extracting the power rod. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
(Post 8229037)
I have the jb weld mod on my list of things to do but never get around to it.
Speaking of 00vi , has anyone removed the power rob and just put a plate similar to the 3.5 guys? I noticed one guy in the FI section did. Im wondering if anyone else has, maybe the top end gains might be worth lossing alittle low end ? Bad angle, but you can see the check valve where the vias assembly normally is as well as the corner of the plexiglass plate I used. Attachment 63742
Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8229040)
Someone here on the Org at one time was making BOP for the 00-VI, but you won't be able to use your cruise control unless I believe a Pathfinder throttle body is used.
You can remove the power rod and keep the VIAS actuator in place. It has to be removed from the other end of the intake manifold. However you want to remove the VIAS actuator first and take the metal cup off before you do so you don't risk the cup falling down inside the intake while extracting the power rod. |
Originally Posted by schmellyfart
(Post 8229156)
You have it mixed up. On the stock throttle body, you can use CC whether or not the VIAS is in place. On the Pathfinder throttle body (with stephenmax adapter plates IIRC), you can only use CC if the vias is removed.
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Originally Posted by schmellyfart
(Post 8229156)
Yeah there's a handful of people running with a similar block off plate, myself included. Since I also have an extended rev limiter, I don't see myself reinstalling the power rod anytime soon.
Bad angle, but you can see the check valve where the vias assembly normally is as well as the corner of the plexiglass plate I used. https://i.imgur.com/pbo92.jpg You have it mixed up. On the stock throttle body, you can use CC whether or not the VIAS is in place. On the Pathfinder throttle body (with stephenmax adapter plates IIRC), you can only use CC if the vias is removed. I thought all those vacuum lines that go to the Vias can be eliminated if you remove it? |
Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8229008)
I thought up of an idea about possibly having a new cup machined from aluminum to replace the cheap metal cup that tends to fail on the De-K power rod rather than going the JB Weld route. I have exchanged e-mails with Aaron at NWP about this. He is currently doing R&D on other projects as most of us know, so I don't want to waste his time with my idea unless there would be enough people with De-K's or 4th gen guys with the 00-VI swap that would want something like this. I'm aware that a few of you have already done your JB Weld mods and probably wouldn't be interested, which is understood. Aaron also told me that machining an entire power rod would be too costly and probably would not be something that would happen. Even with enough interest with a power rod cup made by NWP, if he was to produce it, it probably wouldn't be for a little while since he's deep into R&D with other products right now. So, it's just an idea at the moment. There are no definite plans to produce this right at the moment, it's just a poll to gauge interest. Thanks everyone!
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Originally Posted by BobPezz
(Post 8229233)
The JB Weld fix works, so why re-invent the wheel?
1) I've never used it 2) It's permanent 3) If I screw it up, or get the cup alignment off, etc., I'll have to track down another cup, spring and power rod, or run without one. 4) I just don't like dealing with chemicals Right now, this thread is to only see if my idea could gain enough interest to see if it's something worth NWP's time in pursuing. If not, then I'll either remove the power rod or attempt the JB Weld fix. |
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
(Post 8229225)
k I kind of see it, but why the check valve?
I thought all those vacuum lines that go to the Vias can be eliminated if you remove it? I did eliminate the vacuum lines the went to the vias. The vacuum lines that are still there are for the emissions solenoids and whatnot. |
Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8229310)
I was just trying to think of another viable solution to fix the problem. With an upgraded cup, it should be a simple installation. I've been reluctant to use JB Weld for a few reasons...
1) I've never used it 2) It's permanent 3) If I screw it up, or get the cup alignment off, etc., I'll have to track down another cup, spring and power rod, or run without one. 4) I just don't like dealing with chemicals Right now, this thread is to only see if my idea could gain enough interest to see if it's something worth NWP's time in pursuing. If not, then I'll either remove the power rod or attempt the JB Weld fix. OK, I'll answer your questions and put your mind at ease re: JB Weld "fix" 1. JB Weld is just a Steel reinforced epoxy. If you've ever used epoxy you can use JB Weld. 2. Hopefully it is permanent, that's the point of the repair. But if something does go wrong it CAN be removed just like any other epoxy. Prior to cure; It can be wiped off for a 2nd try. After cure; Heat (JB Weld is good to 600F which is well below the melting point of Brass), Abrasives (grind it off with a Dremel), or enough Force to break the bond (chip it off). Granted, since JB Weld is a VERY strong epoxy it's a PITA. 3. Not true per the above. You'll have plenty of time to be sure the alignment is right, since JB Weld takes 24hrs. to fully cure (Recommended). The power rod stays in the IM during the "fix", and you don't have to JB Weld the spring in the cup. (I think the spring epoxied in the cup may decrease the bond surface area) All I did was compress the heck out of the spring (coil bound) in a vise 1st. And left it that way for the entire time it took to thoroughly clean the actuator/cup, do the repair, clean up the end of the power rod/actuator mounting surfaces, and wait 24hrs. for the JB Weld to cure. Shortened it up nicely, and you only need enough JB Weld on the bottom of the cup to just cover the actuator rod end (<1/16" approx. depth). After that point more epoxy isn't going to be much stronger (the surface area of the actuator rod is the limiting factor), be more prone to crack and could increase full cure time. 4. Believe it or not most epoxies are Organic Resins that catalyze to form polymerized bonds only when mixed/cured. Similar to blood clotting. |
T_Behr904,
I forgot to mention. Something unexpected came up and I had to use the car during the 24hr JB Weld cure. I plugged the vacuum lines and made a temporary block off plate from a big oval Styrofoam platter! It worked just fine and didn't even trigger an SES light. |
Originally Posted by BobPezz
(Post 8229534)
T_Behr904,
I forgot to mention. Something unexpected came up and I had to use the car during the 24hr JB Weld cure. I plugged the vacuum lines and made a temporary block off plate from a big oval Styrofoam platter! It worked just fine and didn't even trigger an SES light. |
Delete it, raise the limiter to 7200, go about your day... :mrgone:
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
(Post 8229848)
Delete it, raise the limiter to 7200, go about your day... :mrgone:
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Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
(Post 8229037)
I have the jb weld mod on my list of things to do but never get around to it.
Speaking of 00vi , has anyone removed the power rob and just put a plate similar to the 3.5 guys? I noticed one guy in the FI section did. Im wondering if anyone else has, maybe the top end gains might be worth lossing alittle low end ?
Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8229851)
How much would it cost me to raise it to 7,200? Let me rephrase that... What would I have to buy to raise it, and how much?
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
(Post 8229869)
e-Manage Ultimate and a wideband. Total = $5-600ish. Also gives you full control over AFR and ignition timing, launch control blah blah blah...
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
(Post 8229848)
Delete it, raise the limiter to 7200, go about your day... :mrgone:
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this sounds like a good idea. what material would be best suited for the job? something not so soft, but also something that won't cause any reactions(between the metals, causing corrosion for example). Since mine is working fine at the moment, I wonder if I can solder the cup so it is permanently attached? if so, what solder can I use? hmm
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Originally Posted by Mr. Blue Sky
(Post 8229905)
this sounds like a good idea. what material would be best suited for the job? something not so soft, but also something that won't cause any reactions(between the metals, causing corrosion for example). Since mine is working fine at the moment, I wonder if I can solder the cup so it is permanently attached? if so, what solder can I use? hmm
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Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8229815)
Styrofoam huh? :laugh: That's cool :D
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Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8229876)
As enticing as that sounds, it's unfortunately not in the budget right now. Perhaps later on down the road. :D
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
(Post 8229848)
Delete it, raise the limiter to 7200, go about your day... :mrgone:
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33
(Post 8229848)
Delete it, raise the limiter to 7200, go about your day... :mrgone:
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Originally Posted by Nexus67
(Post 8230199)
Cef I had the same ?tion as maxspeed96, does deleting it sacrifice a significant amount of low end?
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Originally Posted by BobPezz
(Post 8230028)
Would raising the rev limiter also raise the top speed governor (if it has one). My car shuts down (AT/OD off) at 6700RPM/135MPH, which thing is causing this? FYI; That's after doing the VIAS "fix". Before that it used to run out of breath after 5000RPM.
Originally Posted by Nexus67
(Post 8230199)
Cef I had the same ?tion as maxspeed96, does deleting it sacrifice a significant amount of low end?
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Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8230215)
If I deleted the power rod, I'd be more concerned with mid range torque, in the 2,500-3,500 rpm range (5 speed) while on the highway. It's not a big issue in the flat terrain where I live, however I would need torque for my road trips up in the hilly and mountainous areas. Some of those inclines are steep, with grades 20% on up.
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Originally Posted by BobPezz
(Post 8231427)
I haven't deleted the power rod so I can't say what the effects are. That being said, after doing the VIAS fix I noticed more low and high end power since now it's closing/opening fully vs. partially. Also a much more linear delivery of power across the entire RPM range. Not to mention better fuel mileage.
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Originally Posted by schmellyfart
(Post 8230635)
No. RPM and speed are governed separately. The rev limit is controlled by the ECU telling the injectors to quit sending fuel at ~6500 rpm, no matter what the speed is. Whereas the top speed governor most likely relies on readings from the vehicle speed sensor.
I didn't feel any difference in normal driving. |
Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8231435)
I was wondering whether or not it could be partially open/closed. Makes sense that it can happen.
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Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8230215)
If I deleted the power rod, I'd be more concerned with mid range torque, in the 2,500-3,500 rpm range (5 speed) while on the highway. It's not a big issue in the flat terrain where I live, however I would need torque for my road trips up in the hilly and mountainous areas. Some of those inclines are steep, with grades 20% on up.
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Originally Posted by schmellyfart
(Post 8229886)
Done and done.
Originally Posted by Nexus67
(Post 8230199)
Cef I had the same ?tion as maxspeed96, does deleting it sacrifice a significant amount of low end?
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Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8230215)
If I deleted the power rod, I'd be more concerned with mid range torque, in the 2,500-3,500 rpm range (5 speed) while on the highway. It's not a big issue in the flat terrain where I live, however I would need torque for my road trips up in the hilly and mountainous areas. Some of those inclines are steep, with grades 20% on up.
Originally Posted by schmellyfart
(Post 8230635)
I didn't feel any difference in normal driving.
Originally Posted by MoncefA33
(Post 8231733)
:wavey:
I didn't notice any. I shift around 2,000 RPM around town. The funzone is so much better though. |
Altho my5th gen is my daily beater, I had the chances last month to check on the VIAS cup and YUPS mines was broken.
I also do R&D and for that little cup , I don't think it would be worth the time to NWP, So I took one Sunday and took the power rod out, drove the car and it was a donkey ( dont have mods , just ypipe and intake ) end up JB weld the stupid cup and putting back the rod, I guess I waste my own time on that. without extended rev limiter / headers and supporting mod, its a d o n k e y ! |
Originally Posted by NiZMo1o1
(Post 8232353)
Altho my5th gen is my daily beater, I had the chances last month to check on the VIAS cup and YUPS mines was broken.
I also do R&D and for that little cup , I don't think it would be worth the time to NWP, So I took one Sunday and took the power rod out, drove the car and it was a donkey ( dont have mods , just ypipe and intake ) end up JB weld the stupid cup and putting back the rod, I guess I waste my own time on that. without extended rev limiter / headers and supporting mod, its a d o n k e y ! |
So far the votes are 7-3 for the interest.
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man i have to stop being so lazy and jb wled my shhhh.
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Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
(Post 8259798)
man i have to stop being so lazy and jb wled my shhhh.
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Originally Posted by BobPezz
(Post 8259807)
Yeah! It's NOT that bad a job and the longer you wait the worse it'll get. If Nissan had spent an extra $.01 to put some JB Weld in the cup at the factory, this discussion wouldn't exist. :confused:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone else used something different than JB Weld, such as some sort of superglue? It would be nice to find something that is as strong that doesn't take so long to dry and cure. I've used Gorilla super glue, and a friend used their two-part epoxy around the house which was incredibly strong. It bonds, aluminum, steel, ceramic, etc, and also expands and fills gaps to keep any air bubbles out. It sets in 5 minutes and is cured in 90 minutes. |
Originally Posted by T_Behr904
(Post 8260529)
I did break 3 out of the 4 screws loose without stripping them. The 4th screw I will try to get done in the near future, since I'll need an extra pair of hands to rotate the throttle cable cams up and out of the way for me to get a clear straight shot at the screw.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone else used something different than JB Weld, such as some sort of superglue? It would be nice to find something that is as strong that doesn't take so long to dry and cure. I've used Gorilla super glue, and a friend used their two-part epoxy around the house which was incredibly strong. It bonds, aluminum, steel, ceramic, etc, and also expands and fills gaps to keep any air bubbles out. It sets in 5 minutes and is cured in 90 minutes. Some of the others tried JB Quick Weld, but had cracking/separation issues. Seems like the original 24hr cure JB Weld works best. |
Originally Posted by BobPezz
(Post 8260577)
Some of the others tried JB Quick Weld, but had cracking/separation issues. Seems like the original 24hr cure JB Weld works best.
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