Dave B

UDP doubters BEWARE!!!!

Today I FINALLY redynoed my 96 Maxima and the gains were flat out impressive. My former best was ~175fwhp and ~192fwtq. My new best today......183fwhp and 193fwtq!!!!! The only two things different this time around was the addition of a Warpspeed non-mandrel bent Y-pipe and the infamous UDP. I have gained power at all rpms with a substanial gains in fwhp and fwtq from 4800-6300. We're talking gains of 8fwhp and 9fwtq. The curve is literally elevated nearly 10fwhp and 10fwtq above my old curves after 5100rpms. This is most impressive. At one point, I made a gain of 12fwtq@5300rpms. The curves still show peak power at 5400 and peak torque around 4400. There's still no way around the long runners of the 4th gen VQ sucking out topend power. Don't be mislead by the 1-fwtq gain at peak because I gained torque all over the curves.

My best prior dyno (12/6/00) was done with a Stillen Y-pipe, modified HKS intake, b-pipe, and stock muffler. My current setup is a Warpspeed non-mandrel bent Y-pipe, modified HKS intake, UDP, b-pipe, and stock muffler. The reason I swapped out the Y-pipe was because my Stillen Y-pipe's flex section started to leak a little bit about 6 months ago. I didn't want to bother with flex section so I sold my Y-pipe to a friend and picked up the Warpspeed non-mandrel bent pipe because it was cheap, well built, and the non-mandrel bends looked VERY good compared to mandrel. I'm not about to say the UDP pulley gave me all these gains because a single pulley on a 3.0 V6 won't make thsoe kind of gains. Clearly the WP non-mandrel bent pipe was responsible for some of this and I'm most impressed. Did I mention it's NON-MANDREL

Conditions today were nearly what they were the during my prior best. Todays conditions were 28.80 in. Hg, 60.4 degrees, SAE 1.01. Last time out they were 29.24 in. Hg., 64 degrees, 1.00 SAE. Most importantly, all runs were on the same machine.

Unfortunately my scanner isn't currently working (software conflict with my new computer), but I promise to have scanned dynos in few days when I get back into the office.


Dave
183fwhp and 193fwtq

Stereodude

Like you tell us if they weren't back to back and the mods weren't dyno'd seperately you results mean nothing. For all we know the Y could have added all of that extra power and torque itself. You can't choose to attribute some of it to the UDP.

Stereodude

yourmove

Whatever!

Dave B

Yeah, my Max is the only 4th gen in the universe that shows the power gains of TWO y-pipes (y-pipe is good for ~8-9fwhp and 10fwtq). You crack me up sometimes You honestly believe the Warpspeed NON-MANDREL Y-pipe makes that much more power over a Stillen mandrel bent y-pipe? Like I said, I attribute the gains to both mods, but you'd be a fool to think the y-pipe made all that extra power.

Read: Same dyno and nearly the same conditions


Dave

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (1)

Stereodude....that was one of the DUMBEST things I've read on these forums in a long time...good going...

SuDZ

hehe at least his post got recognition from you.

SuDZ

emax02

iTrader: (1)

Don't forget your Y-Pipe was leaking, the effects of that leak are un-known. I am sure your UDP did help out a bit too.

Stereodude

What? My post was stupid cause I'm giving him a hard time like he does to others? The point still stands that without back to back dynos his results are questionable. Six months later on the same dyno is no better than using a different dyno somewhere else. I've never made any claims about if a UDP really works or not. I'm only pointing out that he can't claim to have proven the UDP without back to back dynos and without dyno'ing just the Y-pipe before the UDP.

Stereodude

Stereodude

They still weren't back to back on the same day. You have no way of verifying that the dyno is reading consistently with the way it did 6 months ago. Do they test it daily with some reference car that always puts out 100HP to check it's calibration? If you think the Stillen was better than the Warpspeed Y, why did you get rid of the Stillen mandrel bent for one that wasn't?

If you're happy with your UDP that's great, but I wouldn't say you've proven the issue.

Stereodude

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (1)

What you don't realize is that he DID HAVE a y-pipe during his last dyno...and it WASN'T leaking....

A dyno on the SAME dyno with near the same conditions 6 months apart can be very accurate in gauging mods...the reason for dyno error with differnt dynos on different days is becuase every dyno is DIFFERENT and weather conditions are USUALLY different...in this case...this was the SAME dyno..and near SAME conditions..maybe if you'd actually READ his post and paid attention to what he said you would understand.

clee130

Simma down ppl ... simma down....

Stereodude

I read his post. I'm not claiming that his results are bogus. I'm merely pointing out that his evidence isn't as solid as he presents it (playing devil's advocate). Even he seemed surprised that the dyno was so high considering this Y-pipe isn't mandrel bent. He's comparing dyno numbers that are 14 months apart. I don't care if it is the same dyno and nearly the same conditions. There's 14 months of time in between the dynos and he had a leaking y-pipe last time. Is he running the same wheels and tires? There are too many factors for this to be "proof". I can't change 3 variables in a experiment and start drawing conclusions.

Stereodude

Dave B

PLay Devil's advocate. I respect that a lot. I have no way of verifying if the dyno is reading consistently, but I can tell you that the surge in the added power is readily observed from 4600-6200rpms on the dyno plot over my old dyno. If the dyno was miscalibrated, then I'd venture to say the dyno plot would not show a surge in power in the upper rpms, instead it would show lower/higher numbers at all rpms. When I post dyno scan, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Since you're dying to understand my Y-pipe "rational", I got rid of the Stillen Y-pipe because it was leaking at the flex. My friend works at a auto shop, money is tight for him right now, and he's a fellow Max freak. I thought I'd help him out a little by selling the Y-pipe to him for cheap instead of fixing it. It had seen the Warpspeed non-mandrel twice and a friend has a beta version his GLE. I was impressed with the quality and the bends looked hardly restrictive. I had met Dallas and Dan earlier in the year and they were very nice guys. I decided I wanted to give them a try and the $195 pricetag was very hard to beat.

My Y-pipe wasn't leaking at the time of that dyno. The Y-pipe started leaking ~6-8 months ago and got progressively worse. My best et was on a leaky Y-pipe.

Reasons for the gains in power? I think it's the UDP and the fact that Warpspeed Y-pipe has less radical turns in the Y-pipe and that it is nearly 2.4" ID at the "Y" vs Stillen's 2.2" ID at the "Y".

Wheels and tires? Same. 16" Kosei K1 with Yokohama Avid V4 215/55.


Dave

97ABMAX

Damn, I thought the y-pipe and the UDP together would give more than an 11hp boost. Oh well, I guess thats all. Take Care

Chebosto

iTrader: (1)

all i have to say about this post is.

strategery.




thank you dave.






for agreeing with what i had said years ago.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

READ THE POST MAN. He HAD a y-pipe before, Stillen to be exact, and now happened to dyno the car with a DIFFERENT Y-Pipe in addition the UDP. This has been discussed like 17 times in this thread so for... sheesh.

Nismo87SE

<------------ [deciding on if he should attempt an archiving].
Good results Dave. You seem to have one of the torquier cars on the forum. U know there is an ECU waiting for ya. That itself would probably give you around 4-8hp average in the midrange and on top.

funkdaddysmack

Well that's why you dynoed more! You wore the tread down more since your last dyno run, and you had so much less rotating mass that you jumped up 8whp.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Great gains! The WS Ypipe is on my list of things to buy.... Along with a ummmm... errrr... Maxima

VQdriver

my ypipe took at least 2 tenths off and the power and response is definately there. do you guys think an ECU (i have a 97 mind you) and a UDP will bring me any closer to 13s? it's a lot of money for so little HP after the ypipe mod.

Dave B

I don't think there's any ECU for the 97, but Cheston was able to mate a chipped 96 ECU with his 97, I believe.

I'd say get the UDP and a B-pipe. You'll be very happy with both. The B-pipe makes hardly anymore noise than stock other than a cool burble at idle and a slightly deeper growl at WOT.


Dave

kit99bar

nice runs dave

but I do see why sterodude would want to say that. I mean, once this guy dyno'd a bit higher than most other celicas over a newcelica.org and DaveB came and called bs and gave a bunch of reasons why dynos should be taken "with a grain of salt".

so sterodude was just taking this dyno with a "grain of salt". Stop flaming him

Dave B

I remember that. But come on, his runs were on different dynos and the tests were done in different gears. He was comparing a 3rd gear dyno vs a 4th gear dyno.

A dyno is a measuring device. That's all. If you use the same dyno each time and test under similar conditions, you reduce lots of error. I could care less if my Max might be showing more HP and TQ than most other modded 4th gens. That's not the issue here. The real issue is that there was an increase in power which is something all of us seem to be looking for. I think there are only 2 of us that haved dynoed with the UDP. I forget the other guys name or handle, but I believe his power numbers are very close to mine and he showed similar gains. I'll see if I can dig something up.

*edit*
I found the post and it's very interesting. Look at his quoted gains for the UDP. Look familiar? Here it is:

"I found my Dyno run with the Max...

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View...ence=0&res=high

You can clearly see all the power gains.

The baseline is the red curve. 155.6 HP and 174.6 lb-ft of torque

With the addition of the Budget y-pipe and cat-back, Stillen Cone intake and synthetic fluids you can see the green curve. Peak power was up to 176.3 HP and 188.6 lb-ft of torque. A delta of 20.7 HP and 14 lb-ft of torque.

The final curve, the blue one was after the installation of the Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pulley. Silver in color if that matters. The curve shows a peak power output of 182.5 HP and 198.3 lb-ft of torque. A delta of an additional 6.2 HP and 9.7 lb-ft of torque.

The car ran a best of 14.72 @ 93.5 MPH at the strip, as I recall, it was a while back.

Anyways, that ought to be proof enough for you.


__________________
Dave MacKinnon
President: CANMAX - The Canadian Maxima Owners Group - www.canmax.org
Webmaster: OF Sound Mind - www.ofsoundmind.com
Technical Editor - Performance Auto and Sound Magazine - www.pasmag.com"




Dave

Dave B

Ya now what's errie, the "world's #1 UDP hater" hasn't popped in yet. He must be gathering a ton of data against me

Dave

kit99bar

yah I understand ya dave.

I wasn't flaming you. Just defending sterodude from all the flames he was getting

kit99bar

hey dave isn't it funny how we both remembered a thread from many many months ago?

we either got good memories or we're internet addicts ahaah

Nismo87SE

Considering that most of the fastest 4th gens did have an ecu upgrade it should be worth the money. Robert (biomax) gained an average of 6hp/8tq in from 3400-5100rpm and 5800-6800rpm. For some reason there was a drop in torque between 5100-5700rpm, it looked simular to the knock sensor pulling some timing out.

Dave B

Kitbar-

I know you weren't flaming me.

Stereodude thinks I'm in the business of giving people a hard time which isn't true. His beef with me is probably because of our little debate about the topspeed of the 2002 Maxima. I don't want to come off sounding like an A$$, egotistical, or the like, but to put it bluntly, most people on these automotive sites have very little automotive knowledge. For the past 10 years, I've been very involved in automotive performance and I've learned a ton. I've never torn down a motor or anything, but I have helped modify many cars (mostly musclecars). I don't claim to know everything (many would dispute this), but when I see something that's incorrect or BS, I will jump in and debate. I'd say only 10% of the members on any site really know what they are talking about.


Dave

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

The correction factor is nearly identical... almost good enough.

breaux124

iTrader: (1)

Really? You're the only max? Hmmm, I guess I don't count then?
Remember the Warpspeed / Cattman comparison?

theblue

my thoughts are that while it does appear to show gains, there are enough factors that make me say that it looks like the UDP had some gains but there is no solid proof still

ejj

iTrader: (5)

You guys are nuts. How much more solid do you really expect proof to get? I doubt that anyone is going to swap the pully's and belts in between dyno runs. Its just too much work.

This is the same car, pratically the same conditions, the same dyno.

It works and its been proved by Dave M in Canada and now Dave B.

VeeTec

I have yet too Dyno my car since the JWT Intake and the 2.5" exhaust were installed.

When the Cattman Y-Pipe was installed it made a peak of 16 w.h.p. more than stock at 5,500 rpms.

Stereodude

I may be nuts, but I don't change 3 variables in an equation and call it proof. There's no way to know that the dyno is reading consistently with the way it did 14 months ago. I'm not disputing that it looks like the UDP showed gains. What I'm disputing is the evidence is being labeled as "proof".

Stereodude

Dave B

According to Dynojet, the Dynojet 248 is MAINTENANCE free (ie no calibrating needed). A Dynojet is a very simple device. There are two 48" drums weighing 2000lbs each. There is a rpm pickup which mounts to coil #1. The car is put into the gear closest to 1:1 (4th gear on the Maxima is 0.95). The car is accelerated at part-throttle to the correct testing gear (4th). Once the operator figures out which rpms he wants to test from, he pushes the set button. He holds the button and then the Dynojet program gives the "go light". The operator goes WOT and the Dynojet times the acceleration of the drums by every 100rpms. From the amount of time required to accelerate the drums, TQ is calculated. From the TQ, HP is then calculated. After that the WIn PEP program corrects to SAE via an in-shop weather device. As you can see, you realy can't calibrate anything.

It's been my experience (and many others) that all Dynojets read slightly different, but if you use the same Dynojet, you avoid this error. My power curves look EXACTLY like they have on my two prior runs in December 2000 and March 2001. The only difference this time is the curves are slightly elevated from 2600-4800. After that, you clearly see the car making more power as the curve takes a hefty jump after 4800rpms. If the Dynojet was "miscalibrated" wouldn't the power curves be significantly off at all rpms, just not after 4800rpms?


Dave

GTRBlkMax97

iTrader: (1)

I say we all give dave a dollar, then let him dyno the car with the udp, then take the udp off and dyno again, the same day, and see what the gains are, I am sure enough people on here would be willing to donate $1 for the results of these dynos, I know I would love to see the difference in power of the UDP alone. but for now a 10hp tq gain by adding a udp and swithcing out the y from stillen to WSP is one hell of a gain either way you look at it

Dave B

I'm gonna scan the dyno plot tommorrow then everyone will see what I'm talking about.


Dave

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (1)

Don't try to participate in an argument when you don't know what you're talking about.....please...it just wastes space. Especially with that HUGE interior shot of a CHEVY LUMINA in your sig.

MAX2000JP

I always have wondered if Sterodude actually owned a Maxima?? His last Sig had a picture of a 4th Gen, but said 2k2 6 speed.

Stereodude

How you figure I'm not qualified to speak about the scientific process I haven't a clue. It's simple logic that to prove something you have to use a very controlled enviroment and change only one variable at a time. Why you can't grasp this I don't know. Instead you complain about my sig (which is a whopping 240 pixels tall) and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

Stereodude

Stereodude

I've always wondered that too. As soon as you figure it out (if you do) let me know.

Stereodude