Originally posted by TellschMax02
There may be some things to keep in mind here.

1.) K&N guarantees it will not void your warrantee...does monster (I don’t know)?
2.) If the filtration of the K&N is only slightly worse than a stock paper filter...is that bad? How much dirt/grim is it letting in? I would think if it let enough through for it to be an issue, they would have stopped selling this for street applications a long time ago. I can't imagine we are shortening engine life and hindering performance by using a K&N.
3.) How is monster's customer service? Remember, service is what makes a company great. Look at new cars...a lot of people buy a particular make just because it has a reputation for great service.

I guess the bottom line is I know one of these filters is great and I think one of them might be.

My $.02

Originally posted by TellschMax02
There may be some things to keep in mind here.

1.) K&N guarantees it will not void your warrantee...does monster (I don’t know)?
2.) If the filtration of the K&N is only slightly worse than a stock paper filter...is that bad? How much dirt/grim is it letting in? I would think if it let enough through for it to be an issue, they would have stopped selling this for street applications a long time ago. I can't imagine we are shortening engine life and hindering performance by using a K&N.
3.) How is monster's customer service? Remember, service is what makes a company great. Look at new cars...a lot of people buy a particular make just because it has a reputation for great service.

I guess the bottom line is I know one of these filters is great and I think one of them might be.

My $.02

Originally posted by soundmike
I'll just answer your first question as that's the only one i know of.

They guarantee that it will not void your warrantee because of the law that states that no aftermarket parts should void your car's warranty unless it's proven to have caused the problem when you take the car in for servicing.

Originally posted by Golden Glory


maybe we can get a group deal here..with the new filters ???

Hi,
Do you have any information, preferably by an independent lab, that shows how effectively your filter removes dust and contaminants from the air?

There is currently a debate on a Maxima enthusiast board regarding the Monsterflow Vs. K&N http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....5&pagenumber=1

Thanks for the heads up on the forum discussion. We have NOT had our filter element tested by an independent lab. The reason being that we do not make the filter element itself. We searched the globe for the best filter element (cotton, foam, Teflon, etc...) it better be the best for a cone filter that cost $99.95! After many months of research we found a filter element that was up to our standards. After speaking with the manufacturer we found out that our filter element is THE SAME that is used for OEM Honda motorcycles. Needless to say we trusted Honda's testing.

There will always be the debate over cotton vs. foam! In this day and age with sub $1000 1GHz+ processors, our industry has still not made a definitive decision as to which is best. It reminds me of Mac vs. PC in the computing industry.

About the validity of the dyno testing that was discussed on the forum: MonsterFlow personnel were present at the testing but did not perform the testing. Testing was done by the technicians at DPR http://www.dpr-racing.com/. The Nissan crowd may not know of DPR's fame. Needless to say, DPR would never risk their reputation in the industry by running rigged dynos. I myself am an engineer and would WANT to see if our filter was not as good as the competition's, half of the joy of being an engineer is making products better, that's what I love to do.

Products can always be made better than the current offerings, but at what cost? Our filter is not the cheapest but we consider it one of the best. We could make it cheaper by making it out of the same cheap ABS that Greddy and Weapon-R use for their air filters, but why would I want to use an inferior non-OEM approved material that has no business being used under hood? I will not sacrifice quality just so I can sell more units.

Any more questions?
Sincerely,
Clinton Yee
Engineer
Envisia Technologies Corp

Originally posted by OriginalMadMax
What's wrong with ABS? He says it's non-OEM like it's a bad thing (if so, why would we by aftermarket goodies from companies like his?) but I'm pretty sure the stock airbox on the Maxima is ABS. It's tough, light, and easy to work with. If they can make bumpers out of it, what's wrong with it under the hood? Not knocking Monsterflow's product - I think it looks interesting - but that one part of his answer just didn't sound right.

Originally posted by soundmike
My hunch is, given the small amount of surface area on the standalone filter ABS may or may not hold up under pressure.

The stock airbox is pretty big and well fastened to the engine bay, same goes with the bumper.

Why do i say this? I have a Tamiya R/C of which the front suspension arms are made of ABS plastic. It only took 5 off-road runs on a modified motor and AWD to crack that pillar. I, since then, swapped it out with similar arms made of Alloy. No problems so far.

Again, this is just a hunch.

Jim,
I checked out the forum and saw some peoples reaction to our not liking ABS (acrylanitrile butadiene styrene) for under hood uses. Please post this on the board if you wish.

I am not anti-ABS, I just think that the right plastic should be used for the right application. There are many great applications for ABS, like $5 computer keyboards, $7 optical mice, remote controls that come with $80 DVD players, and some car interior parts. Heck, they won't even use normal ABS for a palm pilot case, they use an ABS/PC alloy. Think of ABS as the particle board of the plastics industry, it's great for non-critical generic items, but not desired where longetivity is desired and petroleum and chemical exposure will be eminent. One BIG plus is that ABS is one of the lowest cost plastics in the world.

Here is a simple plastics website that explains the advantages and disadvantages to various plastics http://www.actech-inc.com/engmrgt.htm . It boggled me at first when I saw ABS being used for non-disposable aftermarket air filter housings, but then I saw that 95% of them sold for less than $7 at the Master WD level, it all made sense. If our competitors want to use better materials, all they have to do is hire a plastics engineer that knows the basics as stated in the above website. With that simple website, anybody who reads this thread will be able to select a better material than Greddy, OBX, or Weapon-R did! If they see this thread and they care about quality and are willing to raise costs, I can almost guarantee you that their next generation of filters will not be made of ABS.

We have two different materials that we make MonsterFlow out of. Our flexible version is made from a material that BMW, Mercedes and Porsche now use to manufacture their flexible intake tubes. The hard version of the MonsterFlow is the same material they use to make their composite intake manifolds. If our competition wants to know what material we use, here's a hint, go to your new Mercedes or Porsche, remove the intake manifold, and read the code that is printed on the part, simple.

I have not seen the Maxima intake box specifically, but have seen many other intake boxes from Nissan, Honda, Toyota etc. When you take apart the air box you will see on the inside or maybe even on the top of the air box will be some abbreviations. If my memory serves me well every intake box that I have seen has the code PP or PPO, which means polypropylene and modified polyphenylene oxide respectively. You will see many of your plastic interior parts say ABS. The coding is there for recycling purposes.

Here are a couple of pictures of dual MonsterFlows painted silver on a twin-turbo Skyline, one for each turbo! MonsterFlow is not a cheap filter, in fact it is one of the most expensive, because of this, it may not be right for everyone.
Catch you later!
Clinton Yee
Engineer
Envisia Technologies

Originally posted by Bman
I think ABS might be prone to shattering, especially for something as delicate-looking as the MF frame. Maybe they make it out of Lexan or something like that..

Originally posted by Anachronism


On page 3 of this thread someone posted information about an independant test that showed Amsoils oiled foam filter out performed K&N in filtration. I also remember seeing an test by K&N (don't have time to look for it now) that showed their filter out performed all others in filtration. Assuming these tests are both legit I would guess that each filter does better with a different test and they only advertise the test they do better in. Which leaves us

Originally posted by OriginalMadMax


The test info came from the Amsoil site in my sig. Personally I've used both K&N and foam filters, on both my Maxima and Harley. I currently have a K&N on the bike, but the more I learn about foam filters the better I like them. One thing Amsoil did was a trade show demo with both their filter and K&N, where people could see how more dirt got through the paper. I'm sure one could rig it by improper oiling, etc., but it still sounds convincing. I have no reason to think foam is inherently inferior. In spite of claims to the contrary, I think foam does flow better air. Try breathing through each one for ten minutes and decide which is easier. Amsoil claims foam is superior (theirs, at least, for whatever reasons) because foam has so many complex bubbles to catch things. I know it works on my fish tank to filter the water there ...

Originally posted by kloogy
Im using the KN Cone filter on my Berk Intake...how do I know if it's over OILED ???

Originally posted by nismo1989


After flushing the filter, you should wait for it to completely dry, and then apply the oil. You should do a light coat and let it dry for 15 minutes. Then, go back over it with a thicker coat, filling in any white spots on the filter. Let that dry for 20 minutes - 1/2 hour and you're good to go. The main thing is covering the entire surface area. You don't have to spray it on real thick, but it does take 2 coats.

Originally posted by Chinkzilla


Hrmm you still didn't answer the question. I was going to ask the same thing, how do you TELL if a filter is over oiled? I remember when installing MaxedOut2g's frankencar intake, it came unoiled. Luckily tracy had extra K&N oil... then tracy (wizzamax) proceeded to oil it, quite liberally

Dunno, any thoughts steve?

Originally posted by Chinkzilla


then tracy (wizzamax) proceeded to oil it, quite liberally

Dunno, any thoughts steve?

Originally posted by Chinkzilla


Hrmm you still didn't answer the question. I was going to ask the same thing, how do you TELL if a filter is over oiled? I remember when installing MaxedOut2g's frankencar intake, it came unoiled. Luckily tracy had extra K&N oil... then tracy (wizzamax) proceeded to oil it, quite liberally

Dunno, any thoughts steve?

Originally posted by Jeff92se
Your only supposed to use ONE pass when you reoil it(like spray paint speed when spraying the can). then you spritz it again to get the white parts.

Originally posted by Anachronism
Acording to Place racing the Monsterflow filter makes 4 horsepower over the K&N. They have a dyno chart that 'proves' it showing close to a 4 hp gain across most of the powerband . They also claim the oil used in the K&N can damage an airflow sensor but the oil used in the monsterflow would not . Is the monsterflow better than the K&N? answer = nope

http://www.custommaxima.com/Monsterflow.pdf

Originally posted by 1eyedcalibandit

When I went down to PR myself, they never made any claims about anthing being damaged by either product. And I personally saw the dyno chart that maybe you are referring to. The K&N and Monsterflow had similar gains. No where did I see a difference of 4 hp. I think you are going off of second hand by word of mouth from your grandpas dead cousin's opinion.

Originally posted by 1eyedcalibandit


When I went down to PR myself, they never made any claims about anthing being damaged by either product. And I personally saw the dyno chart that maybe you are referring to. The K&N and Monsterflow had similar gains. No where did I see a difference of 4 hp. I think you are going off of second hand by word of mouth from your grandpas dead cousin's opinion.

When the competition cut corners and used a cheap copy of the
genuine K&N filter, we refused to compromise the quality and
performance of our Cold Air Intakes. When we were first introduced to the
new Monsterflow™ Filter System, we were intrigued by the quality and
engineering that went into the patented design. The concept made sense.
Turbulence within the intake system robs the engine of horsepower. This is
why we have carefully designed each of the intake systems to maintain a
controlled amount of turbulence. The weak link has always been the inlet
where the filter and intake connect. When we saw the unique design of the
Monsterflow™, with the smooth velocity stack inlet and the airflow vanes,
we knew they were on to something! Facts speak louder than words...
We wanted to see actual dyno reports to back up the claims that the
Monsterflow™ could flow more than the typical oil impregnated, cotton
type filter elements. The Monsterflow™ Filter system is twice as expensive
as the traditional K&N filter, and before we would even consider switching,
it would have to offer a significant increase in horsepower to be worth
the change.
The results were far more impressive than even we thought they could be!
We expected the two graphs to run similar to each other. Instead what we
saw was an unbelievable increase over
the entire RPM range! Except for a
couple of brief areas where the two
lines cross over each other, the
Monsterflow™ consistently out
performed the cotton element!
As a demonstration of how important a role the filter provides in smoothing
the airflow, take a look at the performance without an air filter! Incredibly the
engine produces less horsepower through the entire RPM range with no
filter at all. It is the turbulence that the bare open intake creates that is
robbing this engine of its' power! It is the same smooth flow that gives the
Monsterflow™ its' edge over the competition!
Hot wire technology and carbonization. The newest Fuel Injection Systems
utilize a "Hot Wire" Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF). The function of the hot
wire is to measure the cooling effect that is created as air flows into the
engine. On several applications, the oil contained in the cotton type ele-ments
was slowly coating the hot wire and burning onto it causing a gradual
change in the readings. The sensor would measure less and less air over a
period of time, and the engine performance would taper off. Monsterflow™
addressed this issue by using a non petroleum tacifying agent instead of
oil! The element can be cleaned and reused simply by recharging the filter!

Originally posted by Anachronism
[B]

Claim that Monsterflow makes more power, CHECK.[b/]

Claim that 'oiled cotton filter' (read K&N) damages MAF hotwire, CHECK.

Dyno chart that 'proves' Monsterflow makes more power, CHECK

Originally posted by Anachronism


Did you even look at the link? -- http://www.custommaxima.com/Monsterflow.pdf

Here I'll even Bold the important stuff so you don't strain yourself looking for it.

And the dyno chart that 'proves' the Monsterflow makes more power.

Let's see ---
Claim that Monsterflow makes more power, CHECK.

Claim that 'oiled cotton filter' (read K&N) damages MAF hotwire, CHECK.

Dyno chart that 'proves' Monsterflow makes more power, CHECK

Hey dumbnuts, the guy showed me a different chart than that, the one that he showed had a high peak with no filter on!

Newbie doesn't know what the F*** he's talking about, CHECK

Grandpas dead cousin, Don't see him.

Originally posted by 1eyedcalibandit

Originally posted by 1eyedcalibandit


Hey dumbnuts. The chart I saw was obviously different, read again. I said that the one I saw had a peak horsepower that was higher than the other two with the filter off. Do you see that in the chart you reffered to.

Originally posted by Jeff92se


Over K&N or whatever cotton filter they found. It's not clear. Especially when the mention the dyno results AFTER they state, "we have found that the competitors have switch to a cheaper version of the K&N". That would lead us to believe that their test was NOT on a K&N



They can claim all they want. Any damage to the MAF because of K&N's oil is more than likey due to improper user application of the reoiling solution. "We have seen, is not a very conclusive statement". Espeically when they have just started to use MF, which no one knows what their oil does as of yet.

[/b]

Again, the specific cotton filter is not stated.

Note: I wonder why the filtering efficency is not stated anywhere in the test?

Note: I can just as easily go to K&N's site and post info stating foam filters are not as good for filtration or for airflow straightening. Who to believe? [/B]

Originally posted by Jeff92se
Who to believe? [/B]

Originally posted by Anachronism
To summerise My OP I said Place racing said _____ here. Is it true? I did not in any way say I agreed with any of Place Racings statements. When they switch between saying 'oiled cotton filter' and 'K&N' it does sound misleading.

Originally posted by Jeff92se
When you wrote "CHECK" after everything, it seems to me you were convinced with PR's data. If I assumed wrong, sorry.