http://www.autoweek.com/specials/200...randprix/1.htm

So other then an M5 or AMG another 4door may kick my ***.

 

I thought GTP's could already kick our a$$.

 

ummmm...there are quite a few 4drs that could whoop a Maixma! If GM does things right the new 2003 Impala(Commodore SS) will even kick the M5's ***...oh yeah I almost forgot, it almost did already! I'm telling you, domestic cars are on their way back.....

 

it's still a pontiac though

i have one sitting in the garage...it's a POS

 

Like the guy at the trani shop told me today, they replaced a GM throwout bearing on Friday, and on Monday it had already gone bad. Poor quality control.

 

This new GTP is old news. The one pictured isn't the production verison. Expect the some of the aggressive body work, ultra large wheels, and low drop to disappear with the civilian model. I remember when the orginal GTP concept was shown in 1994 and I was amazed at how badass it was. The production version had many of the same styling cues, but everything had been watered down a bit. The new 280hp GTP is gonna be a handful, but you've got to understand some things. GM revised the valvetrain, cam, and added a smaller pulley to achieve these new numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if the GTP gained 100lbs (currently pushing 3400lbs) in the redesign too since this is a slightly bigger car too. Every current GTP owner I know already runs a smaller pulley on the SC which boosts HP into the 260-280HP range depending on the pulley used. It's VERY easy to get 300 crank HP out of the current GTP. Simply put, most GTPs you face on the street are already pushing 280hp. Stock GTPs (240hp) typically run low 15s/ very high 14s stock. The new 280HP GTP will probably be a 14.6-14.8 second ride on average. The reason the GTP isn't extremely fast in stock form is it's weak gearing. It appears GM is using the same weak 4T65E tranny which means gearing is probably the same. GTPs are very strong from 0-80mph because of their massive torque, but their ability to sustain HP isn't there due to the Roots SC design and that's why they fall a bit flat on the topend.

The new GTP will be perfect competition for 2k2 Maxima/Altima, regardless of tranny.



Dave

 

MAX = the faster you go the faster it gets!

GTP = the faster you go the slower it gets!

 

ummm....NO, not a 2002 6spd.

 

ummmm...name them and something the is currently being sold and is comparable to the cost of a Maxima, so no M5 and similar models. my tired brain can't think of any right now and remember stock for stock.

330 - not too worried
SHO - please
GTP - close, not too worried
TL-S - please
Accord, Camry - lol
WRX - maybe from a stop
Volvo - don't know...

 

well of course...if you wanna compare within the Maximas "current" class, but you didn't say all that.....so said flat out any 4dr

 

The M5 beat the Holden a while back in a C&D test. I dont see the Commodore SS being too much competition for the next gen M5. I have heard its gonna be pumping out somewhere near 500hp

 

yeah thats the article I'm talking about from C&D...they said it kept the M5 on it toes though...I'm just a sucker for the old 4 door muscle cars(ie- mid 90's Impala) and seeing the Commodore SS come close to taking the M5 off its pedestal is pretty cool! plus I'd love to have a 4dr. car with an LS1(or the HSV option LS6 I heard of), that good ole domestic V8 sound is just unbeatable! damn a 500hp M5, man combined with the already stellar handling...I guess the madness never ends over in the BMW camp!

 

Look at AMG...the SLK/C32 AMG is a beast. The new SL5 has 475 hp and 515 ft/lbs of torque Wait until Renntech or Brabus comes out with a ECU and pulley for that thing. The germans are going nuts with power.

 

I was in Australia in February, it took a while to get used to seeing a four door car drive by, but sounding like a Corvette.

 

*drool* man thats a beautiful thought.....

 

to me, a 4 door V8 is not in the same class as a 4 door V6.. you can always rub that into the other drivers face if you loose by a little bit, or REALLY rub it in if you win... and they have 2 more cylinders!

Now.. if the new GTP runs 14.6-14.8 stock.. the 2k2 AUTO max is still faster, no? Didn't that dude run 14.4 STOCK in a heavy 2k2 auto GLE?

I would still take the Maxima over the GTP.. it's weird looking, plus check out the interior of the Pontiacs... looks like it was made by 10 year olds.. the buttons and layout are just

 

BTW, I believe bringing the commodore here and incorporating with the Impala idea has been nixed.

I have a good friend who lives in australia, he is here now, and he drives a WRX STi and he has video's of him and other cars racing, including a commodore. those cars are just cool

 

yeah I've heard "yes and no" about it coming over....but then again Motortrend says there will be a RWD 2003+ Impala SS....so I'm banking on GM getting smart and implanting the LS1 in that bad boy(since the Camaro is out anyways)! Who knows maybe Cadillac will market it as a new Catera...than it really be the "Caddy that zigs"!

awwwwww man....I'd love to see this pull up next to me!

 

.. still an automatic still dont care.

 

Yeah, but when you've got a butt load more torque under your foot, having a manual tranny does VERY little for performance. Torque is the reason why automatic F-Bodys and Vettes are just as quick if not quicker in the 1/4 mile than the 6 speeds.


Dave

 

Yo man, don't diss the Camry. A V6 Camry on Stick will run with any 4th or 5th(2000-2001) gen max.

 

yeah but who wants to drive an automatic? those pontiacs would be more appealing if they had a 5/6 spd option. perfect example is the tl/cl twins- they arent that much faster with the manual option but honda still went out of its way to offer one.

 

But I drive a 2002, so Camry=LOL

 

The likelihood of any American car company putting out a car over 350 hp (aside from the specialties, like the Corvette and Viper) is so small as to be irrelevant. The only times they come out with cars over 300 hp in the normal car market is on specialty cars. I wouldn't be worrying too much. It's like saying you have to worry about a viper. Duh, sorry, the Viper will win.

 

Well said, but i think gLok would hang with you, think her runs a 14.7 w/ cf hood only.

 

Manual tranis are just way more fun! I like shifting for myself, having more control over engine rpms and torque. I like automatics ... in a van or truck.

 

But throw just a little $$$ into it and it will. Like a $69 pully, a Intake and little exhaust work. There are plenty of people running well into the 13s with a cheap <$500 streatable setup from what I understand

 

Likelihood? The current F-body is rated at 310hp, but most of us know that number is very close to 350hp. It's not a Domestic "build tolerance" issue, the LS1 is just underrated in the F-Body (ie pretty much the same motor as the Vette). The current Cobra has nearly 330hp (almost 350hp) and the 2003 Cobra has 380hp (SC 4.6 DOHC). I've also heard rumors of a upcoming "Z06" style Stang pushing 420+hp and Chevy has been hinting at a "super" Z06 pushing 460hp. The Ford Lightning has 370-385hp depending on year and the upcoming Dodge Ram SRT-10 will have ~500hp. The new 2004 Cadillac Vette (can't remember the name) will be sporting 400hp. I believe some of the new Chevy pickups are also pushing 350hp. And like you said, there's the C5 and Viper.

The way I see it, there are lots of American cars out there pushing 350hp and quite a few coming out within the next 4 months that will be hovering around 400hp. The upcoming Impala SS (Holden) will most likely be around 320hp, but it will be most like 350hp at the crank. The LS1 is a brutal design. This motor is still in it's infancy and GM keeps finding ways to extract more power out of pushrod motor. I always find it funny when guys in this forum (and most other import forums) poke fun at the "ancient" pushrod design on the LS1. To bad they don't realize the kind of engineering that's gone into this "ancient" motor design. The LS1 revs very smoothly, quickly, and the power is very deceiving. The ability of this low tech motor to meet ultra stringent emissions is amazing. The cylinder heads and intake manifold are world class and so is it's torque curve (as flat as Kansas) and it's power delivery. Unfortunately, this pushrod design probably won't be around in the next 5 years, atleast in cars. GM has stated the next Vette will be powered by a LS1 DOHC motor. Yikes!!! God only knows what this motor will be pushing.

Dave

 

I think most expect it keep the same format.. not DOHC. It may be old, but its still the best way to make power, keep weight down (along with engine size), and get good gas mileage. Either way, we are around 14-18 months away from knowing for sure, when the first C6 04s start showing up.

 

ummm riiight, If 02 Autos can run low 14s then myslef with a 6spd can at worst match those times. I'll find out when the track opens sometime this April.

 

I think you guys should check out ClubGP.com
Some guys in there would whoop up on an LT-1 Z28/Firebird
Damn Check out there 1/4 mile times. Main reason they are not faster is b/c they don't hook up that well since its Auto FWD and Supercharged.
I remember the Flame war we had(3si) and ClubGP.
We under estimated those Gran Prix and he raced an ex-3000GT owner that owns a '97 T/A and got beat by 2 car lengths I belive.

 

The GTP is hard outta the hole but by 4500 it's ZZZZZZZZZZZ time and by then I am on smoooooth ride upto 6750 pullin all the way! They got guts on the bottom but no nuts on the top!

And you can take that to the bank! -- SS

 

all u're gonna see is a tiny dot in the mirrors, I ran one & it got pretty far back till it did a riceboy flyby @ 150km/h down a 70 zone.

 

I never said that it can keep up with a 2002 Max. But a 97 Camry V6 stick will run with a 4th gen.

 

Just remember the only reason it can beat the maxima is because its supercharged.

 

*ding ding ding* We have a winner.

 

Is the F-body a family sedan? I said other than specialty cars. The only cars that give the MAXIMA a run for its money, or kill it, are NOT family cars from American manufacturers. The R/T series Intrepid is still slower than the Maxima, and the HP rating is below 300 by a good lot. I don't believe we can consider the specialty cars such as the sports cars from GM and Ford as competition for our car; different cars, different purposes. But, again, which ends up doing better in auto-x? Our family sedan!

 

I'll run a Camry V6 and smoke em.

 

Make sure its a 5 speed and don't pick on the supercharged ones, or the only view you will have is of its behind.

 

Hmmmm...

Lets see the M5 weighs in at a whopping 3900 lbs, has a significantly smaller motor(4.9 litre), and will still pull on a base C5 or even the HSV GTR all the way to its 155 mph governor.

3300 lbs + 5.7 litres + slower in every test than an M5 = PATHETIC!!!

I don't care how much it costs, you are still going to get Grand Am quality interior and cheap looking GM asthetics.

That car will never compare to any M BMW let alone the M5! And yes the new M5 will be a 5 litre V10 pushing 500HP. GM will always be a step if not 5 steps behind because they don't have to offer competitive products to make sick profit.

Good day