Can you clarify this? Why can't they analyze the oil on its own, without comparing it to other brands? Why do they average it? I'm trying to understand this better.



One the first part I disagree. I think one sample sent to two different labs is a good idea. I wouldn't do it more than once though. I think your consistency test for Blackstone was a good idea. I see no reason to repeat that often.

So does Amsoil and Blackstone have this arrangement? Seems like a slight conflict of interest, albeit a small one.

No, Amsoil and Oil Analysers are affiliated.

Unfortunately, the info is already out there. I'm not real interested in keeping the spreadsheet info collected from anyone regarding this stuff. Granted, that doesn't give appropriate props to those who contribute $$$ to do these baseline analyses, but I haven't been paid a dime either. Since the spreadsheet is mine, I prefer not to block off access to certain results when those who really wanted to could "obtain" the spreadsheet through other means. It's not worth the hassle of worrying and this whole spreadsheet thing revolves around the "Keep it Simple Stupid" philosophy.....




My opinion is the results aren't that varied. Also, baseline oils are MUCH easier to analyze and get right rather than used/contaminated oil. There are only half a dozen elements to the oils anyway. Furthermore, the primary value we are interested in is the TBN value, which will show the starting point for these oils in the beginning, so that those who use it can see how it breaks down over time. Since Oil Analyzers is around $12 and Blackstone is around $28 a sample, that makes Oil Analyzers the winner from a cost effectiveness standpoint. Otherwise, Blackstone has satisfactorily proved to me and others that whether the same sample goes to two different labs or two samples to their own lab, they have been remarkably consistent.

It's the "Keep it Simple Stupid" philosophy. I would prefer to manage this portion of the analysis. There would be the possibility of someone paying Blackstone $28 for the same results as I would paying $12, it could all be done and updated at one time (this stuff does require time and effort that I prefer to do at one time rather than all the time), several people could send in a baseline sample of the same oil, etc. Having it in one place with just cash to do it with will just be easier to administer and manage. I agree about "wasted quarts" etc., but that's inevitable in this endeavor.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AltyPaul


Can you clarify this? Why can't they analyze the oil on its own, without comparing it to other brands? Why do they average it? I'm trying to understand this better.[/b]

They simply take the results of other like vehicles and oils and just get you an idea of what other vehicles do given the same mileage on the oil, etc. By "kind of oil" I meant dino or synthetic, no necessarily a specific brand. The averages are different for a dino versus a sythetic since they are inherently different.....



Since it's been done once, I fail to see the need to do it again. If others want to do it, that's fine, the results will be reported. Based on my personal results in that case as well as the many samples I and others have sent, I just see no reason for doing it......



The affiliation is Amsoil and Oil Analyzers, not Blackstone. Blackstone is an independent test lab, and will continue to have my recommendation as the preferred place to have used oil samples analyzed.

The IMPORTANT variation between Blackstone Labs and Oil Analyzers that hasn't been seen is TBN. I would like to know the different companys TBN analysis value for the SAME sample to see how much they differ by.

See what you can do with the "raising funds" idea, so we can get this ball rolling. I will mail you the samples of Redline 10W-30 and 10W-40, but I'll need the sample containers since I don't have enough to send the whole quart.

I'd pay for 5-kits if your buying in bulk.

KISS

How do I attach a zip file, since I don't see the "attach feature" anymore?

I want to put together a ROUGH Excel spreadsheet list of what samples we need people to submit.

You don't. You host the file elsewhere and link to it.
-hype

Where?

There's an easy way to compare labs. You'd be able to get some decent results with maybe 10 samples. What you would want to take a sample from the same source (bottle of oil) for each lab. It might not be bad idea to have the same person collect all the samples (it may seem like a simple task, but you can still get lots of variability in the sampling). Also, it doesn't matter which brands, weights, etc. you test - just make sure you take the samples at the same time for each particular oil. There is a very simple test to compare the two methods, and the results don't depend on absolutes - you're really looking for what we'd call "statistically significant differences". Anyhoo, that would add some up front cost, but in the long run, if you could prove that both lab were "the same", then you'd not need to worry about duplicate testing. Of course, if they were "different", you'd then have to decide which you believe to be "truth".

Only moderators and Jambo can post attachments due to abuse of the permissions by other members.

Bill,

Thanks. Sorry, I've been out of town.

If I email it to you, will you post it? If so, I need you to email me your address for an attachment.

I've put together a ROUGH Excel spreadsheet of what Oil Analysis you've already collected and the ones we are supposedly going to receive, so now we just need people to decide what OTHER analysis would be useful.

Hopefully, everyone that reads it can EASILY see what "holes" need to be filled in with more analysis and step up to contribute. Otherwise, I don't think we will get the broad spectrum we want.

Here is a list of the CURRENT oil analysis collected so far and the oil analysis WANTED. If your oil of choice is NOT on the list or if you would like to contribute please post oil brand, weight, used/unused, and Blackstone Labs/Oil Analyzers, so I can add you to the list.


OilAnalysisSpreadsheet(Click Here!)


If an analysis for your type of oil has already been collected, you CAN still submit your results to bill99gxe.


The MORE data we collect the better.

Ice, what type are we looking at now? I do collect from Blackstone tests, and got back my stock oil test recently, Bill has it now, but I am using Penzoil 5w30 at the moment till I switch to Amsoil 5w30. Is this a different test than what we have been doing?

Alex-
Sign me up for Mobil 1 10/30- I've still got 2.5K more to go, tho!

No, it's the same Russ. I'm just trying to help collect more samples, different oil samples, and CLEAN oil samples for a baseline.

We need people to help fill in the spreadsheet "holes", so we can have a broad test of MORE oils.

Added ya!


I added yours too Russ.

Thanks.

P.S., Expect to have Valvoline Durablend, from my parents cars, they use it. I forget the weight but I will find out. I plan on sending in there samples soon.

Ok, once you send it off to Blackstone, let me know.

Bill,

Have you ordered the sample containers yet?

I need a minimum of 2-3 Oil Analyzer containers.

Let me know, when/where to send you the money.

Bill, any word from Jamie on a link to collect funds for the study?

Anyone home?

I can put in $100 sponsorship on this.

Great!

As soon as Bill gets the link from Jamie.

Ice,

Since you and Phoung have only expressed interest from a money standpoint, we can at least start an initial baseline analyses drive with 10 or so samples.

The oils that I will definitely be sending in:

Amsoil 5W/30
ULX-110 10W/30
Amsoil ATF
Castrol GTX
Mobil 1 5W/30 "Tri-Synthetic"
Mobil 1 5W/30 "Super-Synthetic" (New)

Others I would like to send in:

Royal Purple 5W/30
Redline 5W/30

Also Ice, I'm probably going to insist on handling all samples that are sent in, so I may need a bottle of your Redline......as for Royal Purple, not many here use it....

Bill, just got your last email and I'll get those test kits shipped over you once I have them.

Thanks Phoung. We'll have to insert lots of plugs and advertising for your efforts.


Ice,

One step closer.

If you want more than 10 samples that Phoung is going to send, direct your cash to him so he can just send them all at once. As I stated in an e-mail to you, he is an actual Amsoil dealer and can get the samples easier, while I am a Preferred Customer low-life.

That's fine, you can handle the samples. However, I need to send you the filled sample container, since I won't have enough to send you a whole bottle. I need approximately 4.5qts and I only have 5qts. of Redline 10W-30 and 10W-40.

Do you think it's value added to test a 10W-30 vs. a 10W-40?

I'll get Phoung to send me two samples containers and then if you email me your address, I'll send them to you filled and marked.

BTW, I also have OTHER leftover CLEAN oil from previous oil changes. Valvoline Max Life 10W-30, Mobile Drive Clean Blend 10W-30, Kendal GT-1 10W-30, 15W-40, and 20W-50. If you want to test ANY of these I can send them to you also.

Phuong,

Email me where to send the money. I'll at least need two containers, but prefer 3 for:

Redline 10W-30
Redline 10W-40
Kendall GT1 15W-40

Hmmmm.......I e-mailed Phoung and asked him to contact you about how many sample containers you would need. He is sending/donating 10 for me, and I assumed you were going to purchase an additional 2 or 3 from him.


I doubt it is of much value to do mutiple-viscositys.....YET.

We already have MaxLife 10W/30, and Don Stevens apparently has baselines of Castrol Syntec and Valvoline SynPower, so there's no need for any of those.

Phoung is shipping the 10 containers to me directly, so I'll just let you send in the samples that you have and send you a couple of the sample containers to get the Mobi1 1 Drive Clean and the Kendall samples.

I forgot to mention this, but your excel tricks work for the initial chart, but gets a little confusing once you scroll down. I'll tinker with the settings in the coming weeks before the next update and see what I can do to make it easier to read.


Thanks,

Bill

The chart says 10W-40, but if you don't think it's value added that's fine.

What about the Redline? Honestly, that is the whole reason I'm getting involved, so I'd like to include at least ONE of them. If you don't want to send them in, I'll send them in with my USED MaxLife sample I take this weekend to Blackstone.

info@eatricezone.com

You can call him at (717)859-3072 or visit eatricezone.com for an address, etc.

I sent him mail.

Uh, I wanted you to do the Redline. I would say the only difference between 10W/30 and 10W/40 will be in the additives, but that won't necessarily reveal anything to us. Since most here use 5W/30 and 10W/30, I would say a 10W/40 analysis would be a waste of money (right now).

If you can do these:

Mobil 1 Drive Clean 10W/30
Kendall 10W/30
Redline 10W/30

Then, you can send those 3 in and I will still have 10 samples at my disposal. I have a definite 6 and possible 7 samples already taken up, so I'll look around and see what else I should have done.

Bill,

I just remembered, I also have Redline MT-90.

You could send that in.

As I've said before, I'm happy to help out. I have a sample of Amsoil's 80W-90 gear oil, so we could compare that and Ice's Redline. I'm also waiting on my last sample to come back from Blackstone. I'll send it over as soon as I get it.

Is that UNUSED?

We need to buy more sample containers.

It's unused. Unfortunately I spaced when I changed it, so I don't have a used sample to send in.

I could, but don't have any. Also, it's just disappointing that no one here has had their 5-speed fluid analyzed, yet we have several failures on a periodic basis....



Ice,

I'll count on you to get the 3 Oil Analyzer
s samples I mentioned above ordered from Phuong (or iwannabmw since they are both dealers) and sent there. You and iwannabmw can arrange for having those gear samples taken.

If you and Ice want to arrange to do that (as I've posted to him) and then send me those analysis results, that would be fine. I'll leave that up to the both of you, and keep my other 3 samples or so for other motor oils. Maybe it would encourage others to actually analyze their 5-speed fluid....


Your help in whatever way is appreciated.