Hey guys,
I just wanted to ask you for some suggestions/tips. I just got my 2003 6 speed 2 weeks ago, and I'm still breaking it in. However, I tried shifting gears real quick when accelerating (keeping it under 3k rpms though), and it seems hard to avoid jerking the car. I'm not really clear on how you're supposed to shift when you're in "race" mode (this is my first manual car). I know when you go from 1 to 2, you have to let the clutch out slowly, but then how do you gun this puppy if you're wasting time letting out the clutch?

Second, can you just dump the clutch from 3 to 4 without getting the jerking? I know some gears you can just drop the clutch out without babying it, but what has your experience been?

Third, I find it hard to do takeoffs by only revving to 1200rpms in traffic and letting out the clutch slowly (again, to avoid jerking) because it takes a while to get the car moving this way. What do you guys do to get swift takeoffs (relatively speaking) but avoiding the jerking?

Fourth, does the engine get stronger as time goes on (i.e. after break in period)? It seems to not pull that hard right now when I'm in the first couple of gears.

Fifth, if you're rolling in 2nd, do you feel the shifter moving a little? When the car is moving in 2nd for me, the shifter kind of moves around if I let off the gas. What's the cause for that?

Also, if you guys have any tips on specifically the 6 speed on the 2002/3 models, that would be great.

Sorry for the long post and multiple questions, but you guys have been great on this board, and I've picked up a lot of knowledge in my short time being here. I'm hoping some of you can make me utilize my Max to the fullest!

Thanks ahead of time.

 

Guys,
Feel free to post answers to only one or two of the ones that I posted. This thread seems to be getting views, but no replies, so I'm thinking some of you are overwhelmed with how much I'm asking. Sorry if this sounds kind of retarded, but I'd really like to hear some suggestions regarding this stuff.

Thanks again.

 

Not sure about some of your other questions, but this first one seems to pertain to all sticks. I know with my AE, it is almost always better to 'slowly' get going, then really lay on it. If not, you will be 'wasting time' just sitting there spinning...while juveniles like this at stop lights, it does nothing for take offs and roaches tires, etc.

The BIG thing to remember is what you consider 'slowly' letting the clutch out and getting going is a result of inexperience and relativity. Yes, relative to other shifts, this one needs some finess, but as you get more accustomed to the car and shifts, this will take much less time, but still be slower than other shifts...if that made any sense...

 

1a. I find that I get the smoothest, easiest shifts when I shift around 3500 rpm. (You haven't gotten that high yet)

1b. You'll have to get a 'feel' for race conditions. You'll shift from first just before redline, and let out the clutch, pretty fast. If you then gun it you'll burn the tires on second. So, there are two alternatives. Let the clutch out a 'little' slower and gun it (what I do) or let the clutch out fast then ease into the gas.

2. From first, no. 2-5 yes. (There will be a little jerk, but not much)

3. In traffic I start of by reving (slightly) to between 1000-1500 rpm, while letting out the clutch, slowly. Usually it will give you a nice smooth accel. Problem happens if you depress the clutch and let it out again, you'll get jerks. If you keep on the gas, you likely won't get bad jerks.

4. If you're still breaking in, you haven't really gotten into the power band of the engine. Just wait till you see 3500 and up. Hold on!

5. Rolling in any gear can give feedback through the shifter. It's just the backlash in the drive train. Especially when you feel the jerking, it is likely that your shifter is moving around a little too.

Good luck with it. I like mine!

Best hard accel tip: Don't let the clutch out too fast in 1 and 2.

 

Hey 2002Maxxxima,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. In #2, you're saying you can just drop the clutch anywhere in 2-5? When I let it out relatively quickly for 2-3 I get a noticeable jerk (nothing major, but you can definitely feel it, and the passenger probably notices it more since they're not expecting it like me). I noticed that 3-4, 4-5, and 5-6 you can pretty much drop the clutch straight out, and not get a jerk (well, sometimes 3-4 still gives one, even though I use the same motion, but maybe since I'm shifting at different rpms, that's the reason). I remember Dave B. was posting about how hard it is to get smooth shifts in the 6 speed, but have you been able to overcome that? If I'm driving by myself, I don't mind the slight jerks, but when I have my parents in there or friends, I'd like to keep them from getting whiplash

Also, when you're upshifting, do you start giving it gas as you drop it in gear and let out the clutch completely, or do you start giving it gas AS you're letting out the clutch (i.e. not waiting for the clutch to come out all the way)? It seems like if I try to give it gas as I'm letting out the clutch, I get a forward jerk (these damn jerks!! ). What's your method?

Thanks dude.

 

I find the torque part to be between 3500 and 5000 so you don't necessarily want to speed shift. Keeping the rev's higher is what you want to do. And for break-in, I believe this is a matter of opinion, but I have a hard time understanding what major things change for break-in.

 

I just heard from a lot of people on this board (and the owner's manual) that I should drive/shift under 3000 rpm for the first 1000 miles. It's supposed to prolong engine life, and give better fuel economy in the future.

I've also heard the opposite, where people say that if you break it in hard, it'll run hard. I'm not sure which is the correct way, but being on the safe side is never the wrong option.

 

I have to really think about this because it happens so fast....

When accelerating, hard or soft, I let off the gas, and pull/push the shifter and clutch at the same time. The shifter doesn't really want to come out under acceleration so if you're pulling on it lightly during acceleration, as soon as you push the clutch in, the stick will move into the next gear. The key is to have the clutch in enough so that the gear changes smoothly. Usually you have to 'stab' the clutch, or push it in really fast, then let it out a little slower to give the engine a chance to slow down to the tranny speed.

Generally, I don't hit the gas until the clutch is all the way back out. (this may be just a split second) If you hit the gas before letting the clutch out, your RPMs will climb up as the clutch slips, then snap back down to the tranny speed once the clutch engages. That can cause some jerkiness.

You'll begin to get the feel of what speed your car wants to be in at each gear. When you shift, you'll get your timing such that when you let the clutch out, the engine speed matches the tranny speed and you won't get any jerking. Practice, practice, practice.

It's funny cause it certainly seems like my shifting is rougher when I have one passenger. However, two or more it smoothes back out. I don't know if it's the extra weight or what. It also seems like the car would rather accel a little harder then softer. Like I said, it seems that shifting between 3500-4000 yeilds smooth shifts. Problem is at those RPMS you're usually going pretty fast.

I have driven smoother shifting cars, but this one isn't so bad once I got used to it.

 

I've never driven a 6 speed Max, but I'm pretty sure the hydraulic clutch and setup in the 6 speed is similiar to the one used in 4th gen which means driving smoothly is pretty hard. There's something about the clutches in the VQ Maximas that makes then hard to drive smoothly. Sometimes the clutch will catch nice and smooth, other times it catches in a completely different place, and sometimes it chatters. Numerous mags have complained about this and many say it makes them look like a rookie driver. It's just the nature of the beast. You'll get used to it.

The jerkiness is more a factor of how quick you're letting out the clutch. Are you new to driving a manual? Seeing that you clutch is brandnew and you're possibly new to manuals, everything is going to be jerky. All I can say is let the clutch out just a little slower. Don't burn up the clutch, just slip it a little more and rev match a little better. It will all come together in good time. It just takes practice.

Everything you've decribed is normal.


Dave

 

Hey Dave,
Yeh, this is my first manual car, and I've only had it for 2 weeks (driven it for longer than 10 mins only 4 times). I'm getting pretty good (actually, probably equal to some friends that I know who've been driving for a while), but I'd like to get really good at it (don't ask why, but I'm that type of personality--need to be good at whatever I do).

Anyhow, burning up the clutch while slipping is another thing that makes me release the clutch perhaps a tad bit too fast. I've read some posts where people were saying don't baby the clutch too long or else you'll be seriously burning up the clutch plates. Now, I'm not sure what's meant by "too long", so perhaps someone can put a time frame on it (X secs ????).

Thanks guys.

 

'seconds' is too long.

It really depends on how fast you're accelerating. The key is to have the engine RPMs fall and be close to where they need to be in the next gear. It's all about timing. Like I said, you'll have to get a feel for it. Don't worry, it won't take you long.

Just don't let the clutch out so slow that it takes 'seconds'!

 

Responses are long so I'm not going to read them all. Hopefully not covering ground already covered.

The jerking you describe when changing gears: Are you matching the RPM during a shift? Ie, if you're at 3000 rpm in 1st gear and then decide to change to 2nd gear you may want to be around 2300 rpm (just guessing). If you, during the shift, have your foot all the way off the gas the rpm may have time to drop down to 1000 or something. Then when the gear engages the car will want the engine going at 2300 rpm, but you're only going at 1000 rpm. Thus, you get a deceleration jerk. Alternatively if you have the engine speed too high during the shift you'll get an acceleration jerk.

If you were the best manual driver ever you'd be able to match the engine rpm to the expected RPM range in the new gear and could actually let the clutch out in a split second and have it move perfectly smoothly. In real life this is impossible, so what you really want to do between shifts is match the rpm accordingly and let the clutch out quickly, but not super quick; that way the engine has time to match the rpm of the clutch. When shifting from 1 to 2 give it gas, but not as much as before to match RPM. When shifting from 2 to 1 you want to give it more gas during the change so that the engine RPM bumps up higher to match the expected speed of the clutch.

All the above applies for traffic driving. When you're race driving basically keep the thing floored and with practice you can be shifting very quickly and having the RPM really high between gear changes which will let you squeel into second.

 

alls ive got to say is that when you hit the match this car REALLY takes off. i merged onto the clover leaf this morning and for the first time i had a clear right lane ... i just hammered it and nailed all the gear matches. i was just grinning from ear to ear ...i was at about 120 by the time i got to the next exit.

3-5K in 3rd and 4th in this car is an absolute rocket when you nail the timing. i took off real slowly on 1st and 2nd and just put the hammer down at the end of second and it really wanted to take off.

vitaly, ill just have to give you a few first-hand spankings.

the only issue i have is controlling torque steer ... which at times can leave you in some REALLY REALLY percarious positions.

also, my brother takes my car out for the first time ... w/i 2 minutes he had it really moving well ... he said it felt better then my audi a4. i guess hes a bigger fan of torque steer than i am!

cheers,
jerome

 

120 eh?? I bet your face looked like this -- and then like this -- haha!!

Yeh, I can't wait to open it up, driving under 3k is like walking on one leg. I hope I can get a nice stretch of open road though once I break it in. I'd be afraid of getting a ticket and getting arrested for wreckless driving/endangerement though, but oh well, gotta try it sometime.

 

Trust me, this is something that you need to do. I was on Route 9 heading from Framingham toward I-495 and this red Solara blows by me so I decided to catch up to him and let him see my HID's up close and personal. Before I knew it, I was doing almost 100 when I caught him. I shut it down at 100. I got onto I-495 with a big grin on my face. I don't do it too often but it is definately a treat when I do.

 

You hit 100 on Rt.9???? I personally hate that road, since its narrow, almost always traffic, and a cop magnet (around the newton,brookline area).

I'll definitely do it, I just hope I don't see a cop when I do it. I've done 120mph before in my 95 Accord, but I was able to do that at like 5am on rt.3 heading towards Cape Cod (I was still climbing until some fool decided to switch into my lane, I must have worn off half the brake pad in like 15 seconds). It was all good though!

 

Going fast is fun, but I got nervous in the 140s.

 

Well, if you shift "real quick" you are going to get jerking. That is just the facts of life. If you want to accelerate faster - leave it in the gear longer. That is the KEY to going faster.

The key to getting a good shift is matching the revs. Do a search in the forums on that topic. The short of it is that if you compared the rpms of two gears at a particular speed, there will be a certain rpm difference. To make a smooth shift, you need to let the rpms go down enough to basically match the rpms of the gear you are shifting up into.

Quote:

Second, can you just dump the clutch from 3 to 4 without getting the jerking? I know some gears you can just drop the clutch out without babying it, but what has your experience been?

You can dump the clutch in any gear. The only ones where it will appear you are not getting the jerking will probably be 4 to 5 because that shift (at least on my 5spd) takes the longest and allows the revs to drop the most.

Also, you don't feel the jerk as much in the higher gears.

Quote:

Third, I find it hard to do takeoffs by only revving to 1200rpms in traffic and letting out the clutch slowly (again, to avoid jerking) because it takes a while to get the car moving this way. What do you guys do to get swift takeoffs (relatively speaking) but avoiding the jerking?

Practice. If you want a faster takeoff and a smooth one you've got to ride the clutch a bit more.

Quote:

Fourth, does the engine get stronger as time goes on (i.e. after break in period)? It seems to not pull that hard right now when I'm in the first couple of gears.

Sounds like you need to learn where the power is. Gotta get into the 6000s to get all the power.

Quote:

Fifth, if you're rolling in 2nd, do you feel the shifter moving a little? When the car is moving in 2nd for me, the shifter kind of moves around if I let off the gas. What's the cause for that?

Normal. It is the motor rocking back and forth and slightly moving the tranny.

Quote:

Also, if you guys have any tips on specifically the 6 speed on the 2002/3 models, that would be great.

Search the forums. There are a couple of good discussions on shifting, down-shifting, rev-matching and the ever useless ()double clutching.

 

By the way, I wanted to ask someone about this. What's the top speed of the 2002/3 6 speed? Some people are saying they got limited at 130'ish, some people are saying they were in the 140's, and I think someone said something about top speed being 155. Anyone know (from experience ) what the top speed is?

 

This was around 11:30 PM and not much traffic. This part of route 9 is not as narrow as that stretch in Newton/ Brookline area. There is a stretch that is between route 85 in Southboro to the I- 495 interchange that you can get a good run. Once you get to 495, you need to shut it down. Too much traffic that is getting off from 495. Part of the rush comes from the fact that you are going that fast with the possibilty of getting caught. I speed like everyone else but this car makes me want to go faster. It is very addicting!

 

142....That is all I will say... not that I have done that...

 

All I can say is that it was pulling pretty hard in the 140s. I'd say it's good for 150....maybe some day I'll find out. I was provoked to do it last time.

 

nice straight through there , past the wyndham and such (after 495). can really fly and its wide open (no place for cops to hide except the top of the hill ... however before that is a lil high risk ... tight road and kinda nasty hidden roads merging on.

 

Hey guys,

I just a couple of questions for you. When you're upshifting, do you let out the clutch completely and then start applying the gas or do you start applying the gas as you're slipping the clutch? I did a quick search, and didn't find many results, and the results that I did find were somewhat contradicting. I'd like to hear from the epxerienced stick drivers on this.

Also, it seems like my car (2003) does not drop the rpms when I let off the gas completely. It hovers at that rpm for a few seconds, and only then starts dropping. Does anyone experience this as well? I would think this makes it hard to upshift since if you're not letting the rpms drop to the proper range, you'll get the jerkiness. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

I'm no pro, but:
Apply small amount of throttle as you engage clutch. The faster you let out the clutch, the more throttle you gotta give it for a smooth shift. Play with it.
I experienced this problem when I was first learning. I figured out that I was actually not completely letting off the gas BEFORE I push in the clutch. The little bit of throttle on a partially disengaged clutch resulted in the RPMs hanging for a bit before dropping. So make sure you completely remove your foot from the throttle before disengaging the clutch. Then the RPMs will begin to drop immediately.

I hope that helps.

 

Hey, thanks for the reply. I find that when I let out the clutch completely, I can get a smoother shift most of the time, as opposed to trying to give it a little bit of gas as I'm slipping the clutch. I also heard that giving it gas (i.e. spinning the motor) while slipping the clutch wears out the transmission faster.

Regarding the rpms, I just tried to let off the gas when I wasn't even trying to shift, but just seeing what happens (i.e. I stayed in the same gear). In my old car (95 Accord Auto), the minute I let off the gas, the rpms begin to drop. This makes sense since if you're not giving the car gas, it should start to slow down, and thus the rpms should drop. In my case, they just stay there for like 3 seconds or so. They do drop when I depress the clutch, but not enough I guess.

 

immediately...the Maxes have a computer-controlled 'slow throttle retard' function that gradually reduces the throttle when you abruptly let off the gas, this as part of the emmission controls, to prevent sudden changes in the air/fuel mixture as will happen when the throttle butterflies are suddenly slammed shut.

Yes, if you let off the gas before you engage the clutch that will allow revs to 'spin down' faster -because you're allowing for that 'slow throttle retard' to act- but that will cause you lunges of another kind, namely a few moments of deceleration just prior to the upshift, and that's dumb, IMHO.

Best way to mitigate this just to shift more slowly...allow a bit more time for the revs to come down a bit more before engaging the clutch in the higher gear...if you're just cruising and not trying to fly, who cares if a shift takes a 3/4 of a second instead of a half-second?

Also, this is more an issue where the gear spacing is greatest (ala 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd) whereas in the higher gears the spacing is much closer, therefore the RPM drops when u shift smaller, therefore more probability of matching revs close even on quicker shifts.

Practice makes perfect....

 

Hey Galo,
I'm glad there's a reason for the rpms hesitating (as opposed to this being a problem with my car). I was more concerned with this jerkiness/rpm issue when you're trying to shift fast (not racing exactly, although that too, but more like if you just want to take off fast). You have to shift quickly in that case so that you can keep applying the gas. So what would I/you do in that case?

 

have somewhat of a miss-matched RPMs and will get a 'lunge', period...unavoidable with the throttle-retard thing and the rather wide spacing of the first three gears.

It can be minimized by a subtle, very slight feathering of the clutch as you let the pedal out and of course by ensuring you feed throttle after the clutch starts re-engaging & not before...regadless, the slight 'lunge' will be there.

I for one -even when shifting nominally quick- let the clutch pedal back out a bit slower than I push it in. I might slam the clutch pedal in but definitely, I'm more measured -a bit slower- in how I let the pedal back out. Again, just minding my driveline.

When shifting REALLY quick, forget it...you wont be smooth...slam in and slam out -chirp the tires on the upshift to 2nd...what can i say?

 

We should post a manual instruction or FAQ on this site.

Here is my tips for normal driving you shouldn't worry about racing till you've mastered this. I also don't know how you got stuck on keeping the rpms at or under 3k. While great for gas milage you can go up to the 4-4.5k range and not go over 4 often the 1st 1k to 2k miles.
As far as being slugish remeber this car has a variable intake that opens fully in the 4+k rpm range just wait till you feel that. Well on to the instruction.

1st gear. Start by giving the car a little gas, if you hit 1250 rpms you went to far. (you'll soon be able to do this under 1k rpms on a level road) Then start easing the cluch out. As you feel the cluch start to grab continue to give the car gas while letting the cluch out.
What you want to get the hang of doing is what one foot does the other does the oppisite, so as the right foot pushes the gas pedal down the left foot lets the clutch up. Think of the old hand powered rail cars you've seen in cartoons nice and fluid up and down no jerkiness. While you have to move your leg with the clutch your just move your foot on the gas. Use the gas pedal just as you would on an auto. Your not on a timer here but you want to be off the clutch quickly.
You'll do this for all the rest of the gears also just a little faster.

2nd gear and on. (Again there is no problem running 1st or any gear to 3-3.5k rpms and slightly higher when you feel like it during break in.) Now let off the gas and mash the clutch to the floor pull the stick from 1st to 2nd let off the clutch and give it gas as the clutch starts grabbing again.

This is very much a feel thing once you have it you'll know what the car wants. Soon you'll be shifting with out taking your eyes off the road you'll know when you hear the right rpm and feel the engine in your legs and a$$ and know it's time to shift. The main thing is fluid motions on the pedals.
I know its been a week since you 1st post on this but try this out and in another week or two you'll be a natural.

Good luck & enjoy your new ride,
Adam

 

Hey Adam,
Thanks for the detailed reply. I pretty much have no trouble driving the car without stalling, but I'm just trying to refine my technique so that (1) the shifts are smoother and the passengers don't get their necks stiff, and (2) clutch wear is to the minimum.

I've tried taking off real smoothly by only revving to about 1200, but this means letting out the clutch pretty slow, and in heavy volume traffic, this is not always an option. I don't see how you can have it go below 1000 on a level surface if you're trying to take off at a normal pace. How slow exactly does the clutch need to be slipped? Also, I know slipping the clutch for too long causes excessive wear and tear, but if I'm going to be taking off by revving to only ~1100 or so, doesn't that mean that the clutch needs to be let up real slow? I know I asked this earlier in this thread, but when you guys say "excessive slipping", how many seconds is that? (approximately, maybe you can just time it next time you drive just to give me a ballpark estimate).

Also, the way I usually get going from first is I slip the clutch a little until it just barely starts grabbing, and then start applying the gas (I don't apply gas when the clutch is fully depressed). Is this alright?

Does slipping the clutch when shifting from, say 2 to 3, and giving it gas while it's not fully engaged bad for the clutch?

I think maybe we should make this sticky so that some other folks can read through, and pick up some stuff. This 6 speed is not easy to manage smoothly.

Thanks.

 

You should be able to get the car rolling under 1K rpm range. I do it all the time. The key, like everyone has said is practice. There is actually very little slippage doing it this way. Think about it like this, as soon as your rolling you can let it out. First gear is so short, that once the car is moving you can let the clutch out and give it gas. Roll into the gas, don't mash it. When you mash it in first, you have to slip it a little to be smooth. Otherwise you'll be snappin' necks.

Sure, you won't win any races starting off at under 1K, but your clutch will be doing a lot less work that way.

Also, Galo is right on. Shift slower to let the RPMs get closer to they 'sync' range. It most definetly is a 'feel' thing.

To be honest, I never really considered the whole 'synchro' thing until I tried shifting without the clutch. When you know how to do that, the gear change goes right in, as if the car want's to shift. It was really cool. Anyway, once I realized what was going on, it made my shifting with the clutch even better. You ever shift and it seems like it was super smooth, like you could have barely touched the shifter and it would've went in? That means your engine speed and tranny speed were perfectly synced.

Anyway, good luck with it!

 

Thanks for the tips. I can get it rolling by not using the gas at all (on a level surface), but this takes a long time considering I have to slip the clutch real slow. Are you saying I should do this when I'm taking off from traffic lights for example? Below 1000rpm is basically not giving any gas (just a slight bit). I'm not sure if this is practical when driving in the city with frustrated drivers behind you. Please correct me if I didn't understand.

Thanks.

 

Basically, at lights I do this for slower takeoffs, but not like grandpa.

Idle
Depress clutch, shift to first.
Light changes
Let out clutch, as it begins to engage, I blip the gas as I release it all the way. Usually, there are 2 blips. As the car begins to roll, I completely let it out and roll into the gas. With this technique I am usually flowing with the traffic pretty well. Except for the ones who floor it at the lights.

You can do the same thing and start from second. You don't really need to 'ride' the clutch. Once that puppy is moving let it out.

You'd be surprised how slow you can be going in first. Try this. Go out, and get moving in first, then apply the brake. You can darn near stop before you have to push the clutch in. Once you really understand how slow you can go, you'll see how slow you can start.

 

This is one of those things that is hard to explain and easier to show. Excessive slipping is basicly when the clutch is being disengaged just as it starts to grab more gas is applied than needed before the the plates have completely engaged one another. During this time the plates are touching but not with enough pressure to stop the clutch plate to "slipping" against the pressure plate. When this happens the friction created will heat up the both plates just like rubbing your hands together to warm them up except alot more heat is created here. This type of heating is bad as it will create hard spots on the clutch plate and glaze the pressure plate that then will not grab in those spots until they have worn away. But the problem is that there is less surface friction between the plates and they will slip easier asainst each other creating more damage if allowed to slip in the same way. So learning how to drive a manual trans and not using the clutch correctly, "riding the clutch", will keep doing more damage until you change your, not you just the driver in general, driving habits.
Your question about time is another very hard one to answer. Try to look at it like this. Any time the rpms climb in excess of 500+ during this point of a shift it's excessive. The "point" is before your foot is off the clutch completely. Time all depends on how hard you are hitting the gas. It can happen in as little as 1 second or as long as 5 seconds or more. The higher the rpms the less time it takes to do damage.
There will always be some slipping at the start of 1st. Which by the way is good for the clutch as it gives it some wear at low heat because it is at low rpm for a very short time. This wear keeps the plates clean for a good mating surface.

So learn the FEEL of the shift. Nice easy movement the the gas pedal is the key. No fast or jerky motions or the car will do the same. Knowing someone the has a stick and watching them drive will be the most help because now you know what your looking for. Also The rpm gauge this there as a tool don't spend to much time looking at it. Normal driving is suposed to be smooth and fluid so feel the car. You can't feel anything spending to much time looking at that gauge. Even better try putting a post-it note over the gauge so you can't see it. Then relearn to drive. What that gauge is best for is knowing when to shift at redline when running hard or racing. As you read more on this site you will hear people talking about shift lights. This is a small light or led placed on the A pillar or near the visor that lights up just before redlide so you don't have to take your eyes off the road.

Hope this helps. Chit it better as long as it is

Good luck,
Adam

 

Adam, thanks a lot for your detailed post, I definitely understand the mechanics of the "wear and tear" process better now. The problem with observing someone who drives a stick is that only some of my friends drive stick, and they don't have extensive experience (3-4 yrs maybe tops), so I don't want to pick up any bad habits from them. For example, one of my friends keeps the car in 1st while depressing the clutch at traffic lights, which I know is bad for the clutch bearing/spring, and so I don't do that. Another one revs up kind of high (2k-2.5k) when he's taking off in 1st (this is for normal driving, not racing), so that doesn't seem to be a good person to learn from.

I can get the car moving smoothly in 1st but that requires me to slip the clutch for a couple of seconds, or else it starts jerking (I'm giving it 1200-1500 rpms). I just wanted to know what "excessive slipping" was in real world terms, i.e. how many seconds this takes. I know that the faster you let off the clutch, the less wear you're putting on the clutch plates because friction happens for a short period of time, but at the same time, I don't want to let go too fast and get jerkiness. I guess I'll just keep practicing/driving, and only time will tell how much wear I'm putting on the clutch.

Also, it's kind of hard to use reverse without keeping the clutch partially disengaged because otherwise the speed gets too excessive for most situations (i.e. parking). However, my car is usually parked on my driveway, which is on a pretty steep decline, so when I back out of it, I have to slip the clutch for like 5-7 seconds while also giving it somewhat more gas since I need to overcome gravity. I've smelled a burning smell a couple of times, and I'm afraid that this might be the clutch plates burning. Is that usually how reverse is used, or should I still try to let out the clutch all the way to prevent slipping?

Thanks guys for the help, I appreciate it.

 

I think you are giving way too much gas for the conditions when starting from first. As we have said, you should be able to get moderate starts at under 1K. I paid particular attention on the way to work today because of this thread. I noticed I give it very little gas to get rolling, and once you're rolling, you should NOT have the clutch in anymore. You're going to get a good jerk if you're RPM is at 1500 RPMs, however, when I let out, my tach is near 700 (approx.) You see, it's the same for higher gears, you need to match the speed of the car (which is very slow when starting) with the speed of the tranny. You really need to practice using a lot less gas to get started. If you want to start off at 1500, then when you're moving a little faster, let the clutch out all the way. What you can do is shift in first, then drive at 1500 RPM. That will show you how fast you need to be going when the clutch is all the way out so you don't get a jerk. You'll see, that it's pretty fast. I had no problem today keeping up with traffic and getting rolling at under 1K.

As far as reverse goes, rarely do I let the clutch out all the way. Like you said, it's just way too fast for MOST conditions. I just give it a little gas, like going in first. Then let out the clutch enough to get moving. Then I push it back in and roll out of my spot. Now in the event I have to back up a hill, or through resistance, then I would do just like I do in first. Once it's rolling, you can let it out.

I think your main problem is just giving it way too much gas.

It would be so easy to show you all of this stuff in person. ...kinda hard to convey in text.

Try driving in first and seeing how slow you can go using the brake and no clutch. You'll see it is very slow. The car will pull against the brake very hard before it stalls. You can darn near stop before you have to push the clutch in. You need to experiment getting rolling without the gas at all. Once you've got that down, apply a LITTLE gas to speed up the process. That is how I teach people to drive a stick. It is a very common misconseption that you have to give a lot of gas to get moving.

Sorry I feel like I am rambling. I hope you get the jist of all this.

 

Yes that burning smell is your clutch and you don't ever want to smell it. You better off spinning your tires that your clutch. You should be able to get the car to do most anything you want it to with out burning the clutch. Try backing into you drive way so you can pull out in 1st. Over time you will get the hang of it.

I've had 6 cars in the last 15yrs and only replaced 1 cluch and that was my 1st. It had 80k miles on it when I bought it and thats the car I learn to drive stick on.

 

Adam, once again, thanks for taking your time out to write these posts. To answer your question, I CAN get the car rolling without using the gas in 1st(only on a flat surface), but this takes some time because I have to let out the clutch real slow. Also, I do take my foot off the clutch once the car is rolling, but by the time it's rolling, I've already slipped the clutch almost all the way.

Also, when you start off in 1st, do you blip the gas and just let out the clutch or do you apply constant pressure to the gas?

Sorry for so many questions, but you and the rest of the people here have been much more helpful than my friends, who try to "show" me how it's done.

 

blip and while letting it out. If you apply constant pressure, you're slipping the clutch. Blipping allows the engine to get a little momentum to aid in speeding up the plates. You don't necessarily wanna give it constant pressure because then you're trying to get the car up to the tranny speed instead of the tranny down to the car speed.

I'd bet you that I could let the clutch out in less than 1.5 seconds on a flat surface and no gas. Once you are moving, just let it out. It'll grab. And if you haven't given any gas, you'll get very little jerking because the RPMs are so low.

BTW:
maximaman777 = Adam
2002maxxxima = Brian