Low Octane/Retarded timing? - I have power loss
Thread Starter
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8
Low Octane/Retarded timing? - I have power loss
My wife put some 87 or 89 octane into my 1997 Infiniti I30 several months back. Before she did this I could get half decent peel outs when I punched it. Now I get a squeek and thats it. I read in one of the posts here that the ECU will automaticaly retard the timing if it senses detonation. If this did happen then that would explain my loss in power (Of course I have been running 93 octane ever since, but still have the power loss).
Ok so my question(s) is/are if my timing was retarded does it stay that way even though premium gas is now in the tank or does it automaticaly advance the timing back?
Next, If it does not automaticaly advance the timing back how do I get it advanced back?
Any other ideas as to why I may have lost power? My car only has 33,000 original miles on it. I moved to St. Louis (altitude of 900 feet) from Colorado Springs (altitude 6900 feet). When I first arrived in St. Louis is when I had the excellent power. Now months later I have the power loss. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Keith
Ok so my question(s) is/are if my timing was retarded does it stay that way even though premium gas is now in the tank or does it automaticaly advance the timing back?
Next, If it does not automaticaly advance the timing back how do I get it advanced back?
Any other ideas as to why I may have lost power? My car only has 33,000 original miles on it. I moved to St. Louis (altitude of 900 feet) from Colorado Springs (altitude 6900 feet). When I first arrived in St. Louis is when I had the excellent power. Now months later I have the power loss. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Keith
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,024
Timing is retarded only momentarally if your KS detects knock and ping. It's not something that takes time to return to normal. The car always follows the same timing map unless knock and ping is detected and only at that moment is the timing pulled back.
Change your fuel and air filter, clean your throttle body and your power and response will probably come right back.
Change your fuel and air filter, clean your throttle body and your power and response will probably come right back.
Just to back up what njmax said, this quote is taken from the FSM for 1997 Nissans (emphasis added):
The ignition system controls ignition timing by matching
vehicle operating conditions to preprogrammed timing advance and retard specifications. These parameters are stored in the ECM memory.
The ECM uses input from the camshaft and crankshaft sensors, coolant and various other sensors to determine advance requirements. Ignition timing is controlled by the ECM according to engine operating conditions. Optimum ignition timing for various driving conditions is preprogrammed and stored in the ECM. ECM receives and processes electrical signals from various sensors to determine present driving conditions. ECM will then select optimum timing signal for the present conditions and send voltage signal to the power transistor to control timing advance and detonation retard operation (if equipped).
Also, from the FAQ's:
________
The knock sensor was designed to detect detonation/pinging/knock in you engine. When it detects a ping, the ECU will retard (pull back) the ignition timing to prevent further knocking. You may be asking then why can't I use 87 octane gas since there is this knock sensor. Two main reason: 1) performance will be impacted when the timing is retarded and 2) When the knock sensor does its thing, that means there has already been some knocking that occured. Remember the effects of detonation/knocking is cumulative. It is possible that using low grade gas may not cause any problems, but remember it does not take that many detonations to break your engine.
And finally, from motorvate.ca:
When the ECU is first powered on, it tests all sensors. When the knock sensor would fail, then it uses a "safe table" which retards the ignition advance slightly. This prevents the engine from knocking, as the "safe table" has values for low octane gas.
When the ECU started up, and saw a good knock sensor, it took time to optimize the ignition advance. The ignition timing advances very slowly waiting for some slight knock. This is how the ECU figures out the octane you are running. HOWEVER, if knock is detected, the timing is retarded VERY, VERY fast. This reduces the incredible stress of knock on your engine. This process repeats over and over.
_ _
Summary
_
If you have a trouble code 34, and your car is 4-5 years old, replace the knock sensor. Don't forget to clean the ground connection of any corrosion.
_ _
The ignition system controls ignition timing by matching
vehicle operating conditions to preprogrammed timing advance and retard specifications. These parameters are stored in the ECM memory.
The ECM uses input from the camshaft and crankshaft sensors, coolant and various other sensors to determine advance requirements. Ignition timing is controlled by the ECM according to engine operating conditions. Optimum ignition timing for various driving conditions is preprogrammed and stored in the ECM. ECM receives and processes electrical signals from various sensors to determine present driving conditions. ECM will then select optimum timing signal for the present conditions and send voltage signal to the power transistor to control timing advance and detonation retard operation (if equipped).
Also, from the FAQ's:
________
The knock sensor was designed to detect detonation/pinging/knock in you engine. When it detects a ping, the ECU will retard (pull back) the ignition timing to prevent further knocking. You may be asking then why can't I use 87 octane gas since there is this knock sensor. Two main reason: 1) performance will be impacted when the timing is retarded and 2) When the knock sensor does its thing, that means there has already been some knocking that occured. Remember the effects of detonation/knocking is cumulative. It is possible that using low grade gas may not cause any problems, but remember it does not take that many detonations to break your engine.
And finally, from motorvate.ca:
When the ECU is first powered on, it tests all sensors. When the knock sensor would fail, then it uses a "safe table" which retards the ignition advance slightly. This prevents the engine from knocking, as the "safe table" has values for low octane gas.
When the ECU started up, and saw a good knock sensor, it took time to optimize the ignition advance. The ignition timing advances very slowly waiting for some slight knock. This is how the ECU figures out the octane you are running. HOWEVER, if knock is detected, the timing is retarded VERY, VERY fast. This reduces the incredible stress of knock on your engine. This process repeats over and over.
_ _
Summary
_
If you have a trouble code 34, and your car is 4-5 years old, replace the knock sensor. Don't forget to clean the ground connection of any corrosion.
_ _
Thread Starter
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8
Ok, replaced fuel filter, air filter and did a code check on the EDU and it gave me 0505 which is no problem diagnosed/recorded.
So now what? Any ideas? Maybe clogged or fowled fuel injectors? just carbon buildup somewhere? Change the spark plugs? My car only has 33,000 miles on it. I drive with a fairly heavy foot. Let me know your ideas thanks,
Keith
So now what? Any ideas? Maybe clogged or fowled fuel injectors? just carbon buildup somewhere? Change the spark plugs? My car only has 33,000 miles on it. I drive with a fairly heavy foot. Let me know your ideas thanks,
Keith
I had a situation somehow identical..I used low octane gas,and the car wasn t happy.It had some hesitation in the 1300 rpm.Then later I switched to beter gas.It was quite interesting that even after about two good gas fill ups ,the hesitation was there.The car is a 99 GXE BTW.No check light on and NO codes. I have tried two obd 2 devices,and there was no code. What was qite interesting that I had a Honda scan tool atached and that was giving me all the parameters of the engine,including the timing.And to make a long story short,when the hesitation occured the timing was retarded about 15 grades. You could see on the meter: hesitation->Timing was retarded.I have no more hesitations at this point (from the time I disconected the meter)and the car runs nice.It looks that our cars don t like cheap gas. I had a 96 GXE before ,and used only the cheap gas,and never had any trouble. In one way is pretty bad that we must use expensive gas,when Honda engines (6 cyl)with 240 hp uses reguular gas.But this is the name of the game so we must obey the rules (if we want Maximas parked on our driveways.)
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