Just picked up the new Car and Driver....WOW!!! The new Acura TL is gonna kill us. 270-280 HP, new stiffer suspension, 6 speed and all the rest for 33 thousand. The 04 Max has some serious competion for power now. Predicted 0-60 in 6.0.....
-Svence

 

those numbers are speculations..just like Nissan BS'ed with our numbers

it will do the same as the current 6 speed CL's are doing...which means they wont be any faster then a 6 speed 5th gen MAX.

the 20 HP increase, will not make the TL faster then th CL..simply becuase it weighs more.

 

I think a 6spd CL in the new style of the TL would be freakin AWESOME!

 

The new TL weighs in at 3,575lbs... that's about 100lbs more than last years model. The plus's include the i-VTEC system .. broader, less peaky torque band... however, it's officially 270hp/238lb-ft of torque .. so not that big of a power upgrade.. still the same 3.2L displacement. The 6-spd is equipped standard w/ the HLSD.. and you have the option of 17", 235/40/17's w/ Brembo brakes and pads...

Don't know if it'll do any serious damage to the new Maxima's in the 1/4-mile... but it'll be a hella more fun to drive than the current gen. CL's and TL's .. IMHO.

Should be interesting.

 

Looking at the new TL - i wouldn't mind losing to a car that well done. All the techno-goodies, good aesthetics and performance to boot - now that's the complete package!

 

Finally a 6spd TL!

The extra power will be negated by the extra weight though, so I doubt it will be any quicker than the old one (auto vs auto). Vs a Maxima it will probably be about the same as before. Maxima has the edge up to about 60-70. Beyond that, TL pulls. Even at 1/4 mile (up to driver).

It will be more interesting on the highway. The old TL-S (auto) should have been able to walk away from the Maxima, but it never could because the 4th and 5th gears were waaaaaaay too tall. The 6spd will fix that, and I bet Acura will revise the gearing in the automatic also.

 

Hey Steve, care to pump these numbers into your equations? It would be interesting to see how the new TL might perform compared to the older one.

TL 6spd
1st - 3.933
2nd - 2.478
3rd - 1.700
4th - 1.250
5th - .975
6th - .770
Final - 3.285

5AT
2.563
1.552
1.021
.666
.480
Final - 4.428

 

I actually read that the new TL will weigh 50 lbs less in manual and 50lbs more in auto. That combined with better gearing may make it faster than a CLS manual.

 

http://www.maximafreak.com/tl2.jpg
http://www.maximafreak.com/tl1.jpg

This review says that it's the same basic SOHC VTEC (not i-VTEC) engine with bumped up compression ratio and some revised things in the head/exhaust. Also, I wouldn't be too sure about the "less peaky" torque band. The J32A2 TL-S engine made peak torque at 3xxx rpm whereas this one is listed in this review as not making peak torque until 5000rpm. So it may be an even peakier design.

 

The TL-S currently wears 215/50/17's ... the new one w/ the performance tires will have 235/45/17's... now that ALONE will allow it to get outta the whole (plus the 6-spd w/ limited slip) a hella lot better than the current auto TL-S.

Torque steer should be minimal as before.. so it'll be a joy to drive for a front wheel driven sedan. Those auto ratios haven't changed much from the current ratios, so i don't think the auto will be any faster than the current TL-S ..

Steve .. maybe now that the peak torque is higher up .. into VTEC zone .. it'll be more like the s2k and other VTEC brethren such that it'll pull harder once it gets into the zone when you sprint to the end of the 1/4 .. who knows though for sure.

Another interesting thing noted in the article, Steve, was that the exhaust headers are now "integrated" into the cylinder heads... does that mean Comptech won't be able to design a revision to these headers? Similar to the new Accord w/ the welded headers .. no chance at ever improving on those.

 

The 6MT gearing is identical to the CL-S 6MT, which was pretty much identical (overall) to the Maxima 6spd gearing.

CarTest2000 says:

0-60: 5.9s
1/4 mile: 14.57 @ 96.57 w/2.40 60'

I assumed a 3460 lb curb weight and then added 250 lb to compensate for the effects of the 50 lb + 17 x 8 rims. (Cartest assumes dinky little 45 lb 15" rims)

Is this official 2004 TL gearing? Because it's pretty much identical to the old gearing. Actually, it's slightly taller overall due to the 235/45/17's.

CarTest2000 says:

0-60: 6.8s
1/4 mile: 15.13 @ 92.53 w/2.40 60'

Slightly taller gearing hurts. Shifting power away from the low-end and up to the top-end in typical Honda fashion also hurts (especially off the line). Larger/heavier rims hurt. Extra weight hurts. 10hp and 6tq extra do not seem to compensate enough. Looks like Acura may have pulled a "Nissan" on the TL.

Too early to tell for sure though, and I'm purely guessing on the wheel weight compensation. So I have no idea of how accurate the above numbers are without some real-world correlation, so take it like a grain of salt until guys start hitting the track with them.

 

I know the TL-S always had launch/traction issues. But it's give and take I guess. 235mm up front will give you more traction, but at the same time 17x8 rims are heavier than 17x6.5 rims. The 17x8's will have a larger moment of inertia and sop away more of the engine's power. For every pound you add to the wheel/tire combo, that's like adding 8 lb of curb weight. So if you assume that the new 17x8/235 combo will weigh 5 lb more than the old 17x6.5/215, then you have effectively added 200 lb of extra weight to the car.

It just depends on what your school of thought is and your driving style. For better 1/4 mile performance, Acura should have cranked up the compression on the MDX 3.5L. Then it would have had 270HP, but 260TQ instead of 238TQ. That would allow it to get off the line a helluva lot harder while still having the same top-end pull. It would probably be 2-3 tenths quicker in the 1/4 mile.

Yup. That means no Comptech Headers. I think Comptech did officially say "no" for the 2003+ Accord V6's with the same integrated exhaust manifols.

 

what about a TL vs a g35 and the new subaru legacy B4(coming out next year)? do you think the TL will still spank them?

 

My car is far from stock it doesn't scare me much lol. It will be awhile before any serious mods come out fot it. I still haven't met a TL driver here in houston that could take on my humpty.

 

Hey SVTTODAMAX Are you on ICCH or NissanForum?

 

the new TL is now known as the TSX...i test drove one last week...the neck-bone suspension on that car is awesome...the interior is AWAZING....but I dont like the exterior look to it-- especially the back....

 

The new TL != TSX, they're two totally different cars.

Steve, i got those ratio's from the TOV, i was also reading up on the new manual transmission - it seems like that thing was made for comfort more than anything. Check out the TOV's info about it, especially the part about how the system would slowly engage the clutch even if you dumped it. (Or something to that extent).

"A one-way orifice located in the slave cylinder restricts return fluid flow during rapid clutch engagement. This serves to reduce driveline shock and limit the torque load on transmission components by gradually engaging the clutch during rapid clutch engagement. While this smooth engagement is great for around town driving, it'll be at a slight dis-advantage at the drag strip."

 

Yep, we are spanked, big time.
This is a sweet car:

From VTEC.Net:


2004 TL Highlights:


Powertrain

Engine
Horsepower increased to 270 horsepower at 6,200 rpm
Torque increased to 238 lb-ft. at 5,000 rpm
Dual-stage intake manifold
Available close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission
Limited slip differential (w/6-speed manual transmission)
Drive-by-wire throttle
Maintenance Minder system
ULEV-2 emissions
High flow exhaust system
Cold air intake system


Chassis

4-wheel independent double wishbone suspension with multi-link rear
4-channel VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist)
4-piston Brembo brakes (w/6-speed manual transmission)
17-inch wheels and tires
Available 17-inch high performance tires (w/6-speed manual transmission)
Refined steering system for enhanced feel and reduced kickback
Electronic Brake Force Distribution
Brake Assist system
Available A-spec model with 18" wheels and 235/40ZR 18 Yokohama AVS ES100 tires, upgraded suspension (lowered 1.2"), aero kit, rear spoiler, special steering wheel with distinctive shape and stitching, performance brake pads (for 5AT models), A-spec badging


Interior

Acura HandsFreeLink™ wireless phone capability
Acura/ELS® Premium 8-speaker Surround Sound System with DVD-Audio, DTS™ and CD 6-disc Changer, AM/FM Tuner and Dolby® Cassette
Optional New Acura Navigation System with Voice Recognition™ featuring 8-inch Multi-Info display screen
Dual-zone Automatic Climate Control
Steering-wheel mounted audio, cruise control and voice recognition controls
Tilt and telescoping steering wheel
Enhanced keyless entry system with seven customizable memory functions
10-way power adjustable driver's seat with power lumbar support
Power moonroof
Perforated leather seating trim
Additional master light switch on overhead console
Brushed aluminum accent trim


Body/Styling


Dramatic new styling
Wider, more aggressive stance
Acoustic windshield glass
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlights. Low and high beams
Enhanced torsional rigidity.


Safety


Front dual-stage, dual-threshold airbags
Driver's and front passenger's side airbag
Passenger's side airbag occupant size and position sensor system
Standard side curtain airbags
Pedestrian Impact Protection

 

Man...that sounds very impressive...I would still take a GS430 over that !!! But when the new tl comes out, who's going to buy a 04 maxima? I bet the 04 tl has a better safety rating then the 04 maxima.

 

mmmmmmmmmmmmm....SPECS! Thanks.

Too bad they decided to stick with only a 3.2L. Not enough torque for a 3500 lb car. At least it has a manual now though. I might have bought a TL-S in 02 but I knew the stupid auto tranny would just blow up, so forget it. Saw the photos too. I guess Acura is following the Audi approach, because I seriously cannot tell the difference between the TSX and the new TL from the front.

Now all I need are some dynos for both cars (04 TL and 04 Max) and I'll be all set.

 

- People that aren't interested in having to spin the motor up to 5000 rpm just to get it going.

- People who aren't interested in paying $34k MSRP when a nicely loaded Maxima is still a lot less and will be discounted off of sticker a good bit whereas you probably won't be able to negotiate on the Acura.

- People who don't mind Nissan's sorry excuse for what they refer to as "customer service" although cusomter "disservice" would probably be a more accurate term.

- People who don't mind Nissan's lousy resale (not really an issue if leasing)

- People who don't mind not owning a "luxury" brand, although I still see most Acuras as nothing more than fixed up Hondas. The Infiniti cars are at least significantly different from the Nissan lineup.


In other words, the more things change, the more they remain the same.

 

Icch "member" since day 1. Don't get me wrong I like the old TL and the new one as well I’m just stating the facts all the ones I have raced to date have all fallen victim to the honed VQ. Two gave me a good run both had gas so I matched em and turned on mine and left em in the dust all the others no gas needed.

 

That car isn't going to spank me.

 

all that new shyt and what? Still the 3.2, my VQ35DE loves to pull against the current TL-S- And now it still still competes- but I'm considering
a b-pipe and Jet Chip to keep up with the times-
at least horsepowerwise- no boosting for me-
$6k gets me a spankin' new R6

 

sales guy lied to me then...b/c when i asked to see the new TL he said the TSX is the new TL b/c they discontinued the TL

 

what a moron.

 

You know what i'd do in your shoes? I'd go back and tell him i'd like to buy the "new TL" for $26k (price of the TSX).

That'll teach him

 

i personally dont like how the new one looks. The front looks like *** to me while the back is more pleasing...kind of like the new max i suppose...

 

Why are they still going with front wheel drive? Is it a matter of cost. or is it more because of the snow/rain?

 

Honda doesn't have any sort of a mid-sized RWD platform designed. The best they could do is make a quasi AWD setup with their current global mid-sized platform ala MDX/Pilot. But then AWD adds weight, decreases efficiency and performance, and that is not something that Honda likes. They ought to just make a mid-sized RWD platform for the RL and then trickle it down to other cars.

 

umm s2000????
there will be an AWD RL soon too

 

Like Steve said, there is no mid-sized platform to use.

 

or tell them you want the 3.2L V6 TSX with the 6sp manual that does 270 hp....

half the time the salespeople are total boneheads... they sell the car but they don't know jack much about them... I once asked one about the horsepower and torque number and he had to dissappear for about 10 minutes to return with a "i think it probably has #### lb-ft of torque" and i wonder how the heck do they get to sell cars if they are that incompetent in knowledge the very products they are trying to sell...

oh yeah, on one of my test drives on the 5spd v6 altimas mentioned in another thread, i asked the sales guy about the 6th gen max's having 6spd manual because I "may" (not really) upgrade my 5th gen 6spd se, the guy said " No, the 2004 maxes don't come with a 6spd manual anymore, but they do come in a 5spd manu-matic sportshift setup."

Go figure....

 

I'm guessing either you have a manual or lots of serious mods that lets you pull againts an auto TLS. But be careful, the same tweaked 3.2 will pull much harder on you. Take a look at the sweet gearing.

 

The "tweaked" 3.2 has barely any more torque, apparently a more high-end biased power curve (weaker off the line??), 50 lb more weight, larger rims to spin up, and the auto gearing is pretty much the same as before.

 

I have a 6sp 02' max and a TL-S is going to lose everytime. On the new TL, track times will eventually tell, but I will be impressed if the times drop below 6.0 on the run to 60.

Personally my biggest complaint in my max is that I did not get the limited slip diff on my car. This makes fast starts off the line a bit of an art form. I really wish I could rev more and just drop the clutch to drop more torque but I just end up spinning. Heck living in MN, the LSD would be great just for snow.

Any recommendations on after market LSD's and cost installed?

One thing that I will give Acura(Honda) credit on... is they seem to do awesome with front wheel drive cars and torque steer. I've heard nothing but good things about the TL and especially the CL in that category.

 

You can't have torque steer if you don't have torque.

An 02 6spd puts down close to 40 fwtq more than the TL-S auto does, and at a very low RPM too.

 

LOL. I'll give you that. I personally find the CL "plain" looking, however even without "torque" it does sprint to 60 faster than a max or G35.

 

G35 6spd will do high-5's. I think a CL-S 6spd is still in the low/mid-6 range. Max 6spd will also do high-5's, but probably not the 04's. Too heavy / not enough traction.

 

from a car and driver review on the G35 coupe

"Type-S" is referring to the 6 speed CL-S. I was a bit shocked to see it sub 6 personally.

Numbers will vary of course depending on enviromental conditions. But I think the 02/03 SE 6 speed is pretty much 6 flat on a zero to 60. I've heard the same that the 6th gen max's are not quite as quick in straight acceleration as the previous generation.

Give or take, the 6sp max, CL-S, and 330ci have the same performance in acceleration(stock of course ).