Stock CR VQ.......Aquamist WI and J&S
Stock CR VQ.......Aquamist WI and J&S
[Paraphrase from another post]
You'd be smarter to spend ~$420 on an Aquamist water injection system vs. paying $5+/gallon for 100+octane, since you can mix in a little alcohol to prevent detonation like high octane gas AND get inter-cylinder cooling like an intercooler.
Plus, you can set it to turn on at a certain PSI, so you only use it when you need it.
IMHO, there is NO better bang-for-your-buck then an Aquamist WIS and anyone who is FI with stock CR is crazy for not having this AWESOME technology aboard. WRC guys swear by this setup and they run high boost for extended periods of time. Even their ECUs are programmed to work with WI, since they can get more timing AND boost.
Also, with the strength of our VQs and stock CR, I feel the J&S and Aquamist together would be worth its weight in gold for how much additional boost you should be able to SEMI-safely run.
[/paraphrase]
Why aren't more FI Maximas running AWIS? I know Kev has it, who else does?
You'd be smarter to spend ~$420 on an Aquamist water injection system vs. paying $5+/gallon for 100+octane, since you can mix in a little alcohol to prevent detonation like high octane gas AND get inter-cylinder cooling like an intercooler.
Plus, you can set it to turn on at a certain PSI, so you only use it when you need it.
IMHO, there is NO better bang-for-your-buck then an Aquamist WIS and anyone who is FI with stock CR is crazy for not having this AWESOME technology aboard. WRC guys swear by this setup and they run high boost for extended periods of time. Even their ECUs are programmed to work with WI, since they can get more timing AND boost.
Also, with the strength of our VQs and stock CR, I feel the J&S and Aquamist together would be worth its weight in gold for how much additional boost you should be able to SEMI-safely run.
[/paraphrase]
Why aren't more FI Maximas running AWIS? I know Kev has it, who else does?
I never looked into it. Im not a fan of water spraying or aquamist since the tank has to be refilled. I remember reading that post cheston posted awhile back on intercoolers and water injection. That kind of turned me away on it.
I have a J&S now, but not installed inline with the eManage, makes it VERY difficult. I dont think it can work. Cause two units are going to try to control timing. Also why Thomas hasnt got it to work either.
Why is a simple Aquamist cost $420? What am I missing that it has?
Dixit
I have a J&S now, but not installed inline with the eManage, makes it VERY difficult. I dont think it can work. Cause two units are going to try to control timing. Also why Thomas hasnt got it to work either.
Why is a simple Aquamist cost $420? What am I missing that it has?
Dixit
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
[Paraphrase from another post]
You'd be smarter to spend ~$420 on an Aquamist water injection system vs. paying $5+/gallon for 100+octane, since you can mix in a little alcohol to prevent detonation like high octane gas AND get inter-cylinder cooling like an intercooler.
Plus, you can set it to turn on at a certain PSI, so you only use it when you need it.
IMHO, there is NO better bang-for-your-buck then an Aquamist WIS and anyone who is FI with stock CR is crazy for not having this AWESOME technology aboard. WRC guys swear by this setup and they run high boost for extended periods of time. Even their ECUs are programmed to work with WI, since they can get more timing AND boost.
Also, with the strength of our VQs and stock CR, I feel the J&S and Aquamist together would be worth its weight in gold for how much additional boost you should be able to SEMI-safely run.
[/paraphrase]
Why aren't more FI Maximas running AWIS? I know Kev has it, who else does?
You'd be smarter to spend ~$420 on an Aquamist water injection system vs. paying $5+/gallon for 100+octane, since you can mix in a little alcohol to prevent detonation like high octane gas AND get inter-cylinder cooling like an intercooler.
Plus, you can set it to turn on at a certain PSI, so you only use it when you need it.
IMHO, there is NO better bang-for-your-buck then an Aquamist WIS and anyone who is FI with stock CR is crazy for not having this AWESOME technology aboard. WRC guys swear by this setup and they run high boost for extended periods of time. Even their ECUs are programmed to work with WI, since they can get more timing AND boost.
Also, with the strength of our VQs and stock CR, I feel the J&S and Aquamist together would be worth its weight in gold for how much additional boost you should be able to SEMI-safely run.
[/paraphrase]
Why aren't more FI Maximas running AWIS? I know Kev has it, who else does?
Dixit,
If you set the AWIS to turn on at say 6psi and above, you'll use VERY little water. I think Kev says every other gas fillup, he adds water. Anyways, if you use the windshield reservior tank, you'll have a "low windshield fluid" light that comes on when you get low anyhow. Some 2000 SEs and I believe all AEs came with the sensor, however someone on the board posted a how-to add one to our tank. Looked easy.
YOU NEED WATER INJECTION~! Trust me...it works very well with only a slight power loss, but the extra boost you can run MORE then makes up for it. Your engine wont last long with 91-craptane, but with the alcohol mix, it simulates the effect of much higher octane.
Shoot me an email on what's going on with the eManage ignition control. I'd like to know.
If you set the AWIS to turn on at say 6psi and above, you'll use VERY little water. I think Kev says every other gas fillup, he adds water. Anyways, if you use the windshield reservior tank, you'll have a "low windshield fluid" light that comes on when you get low anyhow. Some 2000 SEs and I believe all AEs came with the sensor, however someone on the board posted a how-to add one to our tank. Looked easy.
YOU NEED WATER INJECTION~! Trust me...it works very well with only a slight power loss, but the extra boost you can run MORE then makes up for it. Your engine wont last long with 91-craptane, but with the alcohol mix, it simulates the effect of much higher octane.
Shoot me an email on what's going on with the eManage ignition control. I'd like to know.
Originally Posted by BigDogJonx
I never looked into it. Im not a fan of water spraying or aquamist since the tank has to be refilled. I remember reading that post cheston posted awhile back on intercoolers and water injection. That kind of turned me away on it.
I have a J&S now, but not installed inline with the eManage, makes it VERY difficult. I dont think it can work. Cause two units are going to try to control timing. Also why Thomas hasnt got it to work either.
Why is a simple Aquamist cost $420? What am I missing that it has?
Dixit
I have a J&S now, but not installed inline with the eManage, makes it VERY difficult. I dont think it can work. Cause two units are going to try to control timing. Also why Thomas hasnt got it to work either.
Why is a simple Aquamist cost $420? What am I missing that it has?
Dixit
80/20 water/alcohol is what Kev runs. You shouldn't go past 50/50 IIRC.
Methanol alcohol is what Kev uses, but I think others will work also just more/less effective.
Methanol alcohol is what Kev uses, but I think others will work also just more/less effective.
Originally Posted by maxlinegtr
I do...I have questions. what ratio do you mix the water and alcohol and will any alcohol do( rubbing alcohol) beer..j/k
Ahhh yes, Water Injection... this is an old old topic (didn't they use it in some kind of war planes in the 1940's for some purpose?)
Doesn't make much sense in an N/A configuration, however I can see the value of it while boosting. Water is a very effective coolant, as it has the highest specific heat capacity (? ... highest of all commonly-available substances, not sure if any substances exist with a higher heat capacity), which means water can suck up more heat before increasing in temperature. Hence why it's also used as engine coolant (with ethylene glycol mixed in 50% to handle the temperature issues of boiling & freezing encountered by typical cars...)
Doesn't make much sense in an N/A configuration, however I can see the value of it while boosting. Water is a very effective coolant, as it has the highest specific heat capacity (? ... highest of all commonly-available substances, not sure if any substances exist with a higher heat capacity), which means water can suck up more heat before increasing in temperature. Hence why it's also used as engine coolant (with ethylene glycol mixed in 50% to handle the temperature issues of boiling & freezing encountered by typical cars...)
Dixit, I saw your post on the Emanage list, did you get that solved?? I just put either Y/B wire in the 2 remaining sposts and just made sure to hook the right coil wire up to them
also why are you piggy backing the setup with J&S? just for added safety?
also why are you piggy backing the setup with J&S? just for added safety?
Its one of the things I'm considering for this spring. My only concern is the use of water. Idealy I'd like a setup that will work year-round. Water freezes in the winter (duh). You can't mix anti-freeze with this setup like you could with an AWIC.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
Originally Posted by ejj
Its one of the things I'm considering for this spring. My only concern is the use of water. Idealy I'd like a setup that will work year-round. Water freezes in the winter (duh). You can't mix anti-freeze with this setup like you could with an AWIC.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
Windshield washer fluid is water + methanol + detergents... if the detergents don't hurt the engine, how about using it?
What's the typical freezing point advertised for windshield washer fluid... -27F?
Not sure if this is that old.
I've read/heard they used N20 in warplanes along with SCs, but never WI. At altitude, you have plenty of COLD air, so water wouldn't need to be used, I'd guess.
Anyways, while you're correct about water having a very high specific heat and that's why it's used in radiators(it can hold MORE heat BEFORE vaporizing), WI mostly takes advantage of the change of state from a liquid to a gas. Some stays as a liquid, but most vaporizes. The change/vaporization is an endothermic(sp?) reaction IIRC, that ABSORBS energy/heat thus cooling the surrounding air, ie causes a temperature drop.
IMO...the suggested ratio is more a concern with the corrosive properties of alcohol on rubber/plastic and even metal. However, the cooling effects of the water and the octane bump from the alcohol are a trade-off to be balanced.
I've read/heard they used N20 in warplanes along with SCs, but never WI. At altitude, you have plenty of COLD air, so water wouldn't need to be used, I'd guess.Anyways, while you're correct about water having a very high specific heat and that's why it's used in radiators(it can hold MORE heat BEFORE vaporizing), WI mostly takes advantage of the change of state from a liquid to a gas. Some stays as a liquid, but most vaporizes. The change/vaporization is an endothermic(sp?) reaction IIRC, that ABSORBS energy/heat thus cooling the surrounding air, ie causes a temperature drop.
IMO...the suggested ratio is more a concern with the corrosive properties of alcohol on rubber/plastic and even metal. However, the cooling effects of the water and the octane bump from the alcohol are a trade-off to be balanced.
Originally Posted by spirilis
Ahhh yes, Water Injection... this is an old old topic (didn't they use it in some kind of war planes in the 1940's for some purpose?)
Doesn't make much sense in an N/A configuration, however I can see the value of it while boosting. Water is a very effective coolant, as it has the highest specific heat capacity (? ... highest of all commonly-available substances, not sure if any substances exist with a higher heat capacity), which means water can suck up more heat before increasing in temperature. Hence why it's also used as engine coolant (with ethylene glycol mixed in 50% to handle the temperature issues of boiling & freezing encountered by typical cars...)
Doesn't make much sense in an N/A configuration, however I can see the value of it while boosting. Water is a very effective coolant, as it has the highest specific heat capacity (? ... highest of all commonly-available substances, not sure if any substances exist with a higher heat capacity), which means water can suck up more heat before increasing in temperature. Hence why it's also used as engine coolant (with ethylene glycol mixed in 50% to handle the temperature issues of boiling & freezing encountered by typical cars...)
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Yeah, distilled would be best, but anything besides tap would be fine.
Ignition switch?
Ignition switch?
Hmmmnnnn....very interesting point.
However, wouldn't the water in a reservior of the engine compartment heat up pretty fast?
As long as you don't boost above X-psi, it would melt eventually. Might be an interesting *TEST* you could perform by simply putting a container with water under the hood overnight and then drive the next day to observe how long it takes before it melts.
Being from AZ, I've never thought about what FI guys do during winter with their intercoolers. Doesn't it hurt performance below a certain temp? Do they cover/block the IC? Is detonation really a concern during winter?
Good food for thought man!
However, wouldn't the water in a reservior of the engine compartment heat up pretty fast?
As long as you don't boost above X-psi, it would melt eventually. Might be an interesting *TEST* you could perform by simply putting a container with water under the hood overnight and then drive the next day to observe how long it takes before it melts.
Being from AZ, I've never thought about what FI guys do during winter with their intercoolers. Doesn't it hurt performance below a certain temp? Do they cover/block the IC? Is detonation really a concern during winter?
Good food for thought man!
Originally Posted by ejj
Its one of the things I'm considering for this spring. My only concern is the use of water. Idealy I'd like a setup that will work year-round. Water freezes in the winter (duh). You can't mix anti-freeze with this setup like you could with an AWIC.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
Duh! Thanks...was wondering where that came from.
Anyways, ANY power wire that is hot when the car is turned on will do. Basically, when the key is turned on, the 40A relay closes and the pump has power. Then once the pressure switch is triggered at Xpsi, the pump starts flowing.
J&S is a timing control box that retards timing according to boost. Here's a quick search list:
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=102837
Anyways, ANY power wire that is hot when the car is turned on will do. Basically, when the key is turned on, the 40A relay closes and the pump has power. Then once the pressure switch is triggered at Xpsi, the pump starts flowing.
J&S is a timing control box that retards timing according to boost. Here's a quick search list:
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=102837
Originally Posted by maxlinegtr
yeah... the purple wire. where does it go? if you look at the diagram for the install, the rest of the set up simple but the puple wire goin to the ignition switch confuses me. and another thing. what is this J&S youguys are talkin about?
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
However, wouldn't the water in a reservior of the engine compartment heat up pretty fast?
As long as you don't boost above X-psi, it would melt eventually. Might be an interesting *TEST* you could perform by simply putting a container with water under the hood overnight and then drive the next day to observe how long it takes before it melts.
Being from AZ, I've never thought about what FI guys do during winter with their intercoolers. Doesn't it hurt performance below a certain temp? Do they cover/block the IC? Is detonation really a concern during winter?
Interesting....http://www.ashchem.com/adc/chemicals...=3&is_header=N
So, if I'm reading that correctly, a Methanol/Water solution has a LOWER freezing point then either Antifreeze/Water solutions.
1. What are the freezing points of water/Methanol ; water/Ethylene Glycol; water/Propylene Glycol mixtures ?
Answer:
Methanol \ Water Mixtures
Methanol Conc.
Wt. % (Vol.%) Freezing Point,
F(C) Flash Point,
(TCC) F (C)
0 (0) 32 (0) No Flash
10 (13) 20 (-7) 130 (54)
20 (24) 0 (-18) 110 (43)
30 (35) -15 (-26) 95 (35)
40 (46) -40 (-40) 85 (29)
50 (56) -65 (-54) 75 (24)
60 (66) -95 (-71) 70 (21)
70 (75) -215 (<-73) 60 (16)
80 (83) -225 (<-73) 55 (13)
90 (92) -230 (<-73) 55 (13)
100 (100) -145 (<-73) 55 (13)
Ethylene Glycol / Water Mixtures
EG Conc
Wt.% (Vol.%) Freezing Point,
F(C) Boiling Point,
F (C)
0 (0 32 (0) 212 (100)
10 (9) 25 (-4) 215 (102)
20 (18) 20 (-7) 215 (102)
30 (28) 5 (-15) 220 (104)
40 (38) -10 (-23) 220 (104)
50 (48) -30 (-34) 225 (107)
60 (58) -55 (-48) 230 (110)
70 (68) <-60 (<-51) 240 (116)
80 (79) -50 (-46) 255 (124)
90 (90) -20 (-29) 285 (141)
100 (100) 10 (-12) 390 (199)
Propylene Glycol / Water Mixtures
PG Conc.
Wt.% (Vol.%) Freezing Point,
F(C) Boiling Point,
F (C)
0 (0) 32 (0) 212 (100)
10 (10) 25 (-4) 212 (100)
20 (19) 20 (-7) 215 (102)
30 (29) 10 (-12) 215 (102)
40 (40) -5 (-21) 220 (104)
50 (50) -30 (-34) 220 (104)
60 (60) -60 (-51) 225 (107)
70 (70) <-60 (<-51) 230 (110)
80 (80) <-60 (<-51) 245 (118)
90 (90) <-60 (<-51) 270 (132)
100 (100) <-60 (<-51) 370 (188)
Answer:
Methanol \ Water Mixtures
Methanol Conc.
Wt. % (Vol.%) Freezing Point,
F(C) Flash Point,
(TCC) F (C)
0 (0) 32 (0) No Flash
10 (13) 20 (-7) 130 (54)
20 (24) 0 (-18) 110 (43)
30 (35) -15 (-26) 95 (35)
40 (46) -40 (-40) 85 (29)
50 (56) -65 (-54) 75 (24)
60 (66) -95 (-71) 70 (21)
70 (75) -215 (<-73) 60 (16)
80 (83) -225 (<-73) 55 (13)
90 (92) -230 (<-73) 55 (13)
100 (100) -145 (<-73) 55 (13)
Ethylene Glycol / Water Mixtures
EG Conc
Wt.% (Vol.%) Freezing Point,
F(C) Boiling Point,
F (C)
0 (0 32 (0) 212 (100)
10 (9) 25 (-4) 215 (102)
20 (18) 20 (-7) 215 (102)
30 (28) 5 (-15) 220 (104)
40 (38) -10 (-23) 220 (104)
50 (48) -30 (-34) 225 (107)
60 (58) -55 (-48) 230 (110)
70 (68) <-60 (<-51) 240 (116)
80 (79) -50 (-46) 255 (124)
90 (90) -20 (-29) 285 (141)
100 (100) 10 (-12) 390 (199)
Propylene Glycol / Water Mixtures
PG Conc.
Wt.% (Vol.%) Freezing Point,
F(C) Boiling Point,
F (C)
0 (0) 32 (0) 212 (100)
10 (10) 25 (-4) 212 (100)
20 (19) 20 (-7) 215 (102)
30 (29) 10 (-12) 215 (102)
40 (40) -5 (-21) 220 (104)
50 (50) -30 (-34) 220 (104)
60 (60) -60 (-51) 225 (107)
70 (70) <-60 (<-51) 230 (110)
80 (80) <-60 (<-51) 245 (118)
90 (90) <-60 (<-51) 270 (132)
100 (100) <-60 (<-51) 370 (188)
So, if I'm reading that correctly, a Methanol/Water solution has a LOWER freezing point then either Antifreeze/Water solutions.
thanx for the info....I can not access the site
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=102837
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=102837
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Not sure if this is that old. I've read/heard they used N20 in warplanes along with SCs, but never WI. At altitude, you have plenty of COLD air, so water wouldn't need to be used, I'd guess.
I've read/heard they used N20 in warplanes along with SCs, but never WI. At altitude, you have plenty of COLD air, so water wouldn't need to be used, I'd guess.http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wa...aol.com&rnum=4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by ejj
Its one of the things I'm considering for this spring. My only concern is the use of water. Idealy I'd like a setup that will work year-round. Water freezes in the winter (duh). You can't mix anti-freeze with this setup like you could with an AWIC.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
So, if I did this I wouldn't be able to use the WI in the winter.
Yes, I realize that the alcohol would lower the freezing temp of water, but not enough.
And with the "it will take much longer to freeze comment": With the addition of alcohol to the water, it will take a few days of constant FREEZING temperatures to even freeze the whole alcohol/water container. I think that at most, only a portion of the mixture would freeze (my best guess the top portion).
I may be off on a few things, but I am pretty sure that I hit it pretty well.....
Originally Posted by Ramius83
EJJ, that is a good thought. However, as ICE has posted, the water has alcohol in it. Alcohol has a MUCH lower freezing point than water does. So with the addition of alcohol to the water, it has a lower freezing point than regular water. Granted, it is only about 10-40 degrees of a difference (depending on mixture), it will take much longer to freeze.
And with the "it will take much longer to freeze comment": With the addition of alcohol to the water, it will take a few days of constant FREEZING temperatures to even freeze the whole alcohol/water container. I think that at most, only a portion of the mixture would freeze (my best guess the top portion).
And with the "it will take much longer to freeze comment": With the addition of alcohol to the water, it will take a few days of constant FREEZING temperatures to even freeze the whole alcohol/water container. I think that at most, only a portion of the mixture would freeze (my best guess the top portion).
The more I think about it...the more a J&S makes sense for me.
I guess the subliminal messages worked finally~!
You won't regret it...WRC racers treat it like it's a God-send.
Originally Posted by BigDogJonx
Aight, F it, Im buying one. Thanks for the link of the seller Alex! More crap to install.
Dixit
Dixit
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
BTW, maybe you should contact him and see if he's willing to put together a Group Buy?
Dixit
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
BTW, maybe you should contact him and see if he's willing to put together a Group Buy?
Yeap messages finally sank in. I just got to figure out where to put a tank and make all that work cause I dont want to use my Washer tank. I need that fluid.
Dixit
You just got to find a tank that will accept the sensor at any parts store or even junk yard. I think Mardi did something like that.
Also, Jime mounted a small fuel cell up front, maybe you could similarly mount the tank.
BTW, you got email.
Also, Jime mounted a small fuel cell up front, maybe you could similarly mount the tank.
BTW, you got email.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 281
Originally Posted by BigDogJonx
Aight, F it, Im buying one. Thanks for the link of the seller Alex! More crap to install.
Dixit
Dixit
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,094
From: Columbus, OH
Any updates?
jhans114 was able to get them, here is a post from him: "The system that Im using is the 1S system. This system works off boost. I can actually get you the system since I have an account with them. If you want the 1S system your price will be $435 shipped to your home. By the way is your max supercharged??? If not maybe the 2S system could work for you since that one comes with a computer that you can have the mist kick in with RPM. Let me know if you need some help."
jhans114 was able to get them, here is a post from him: "The system that Im using is the 1S system. This system works off boost. I can actually get you the system since I have an account with them. If you want the 1S system your price will be $435 shipped to your home. By the way is your max supercharged??? If not maybe the 2S system could work for you since that one comes with a computer that you can have the mist kick in with RPM. Let me know if you need some help."
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