Is there any research available that shows what the best gasoline is as far as detergent level, other additives, etc?

(Not octane rating, but actual brands e.g. Shell, Amoco, Etc.)

 

Sunoco Ultra 94.

 

You just opened a big can of warms.......

 

Texaco or Sunoco? both claim best cleaning detergents. Is it ture Texaco is a Chevron company?

Saw the new Shell ads, but none close for me to use.
I think the 94 (actually 93.5) is a waste for $.13 more than 93.

 

Chevron/Texaco (same gas both have "techron")
or Amoco/BP

 

A lot of people have their own personal opinions, but I would consider them useless without somebody pointing to an actual study or survey that has meaningful data ranking them.

Until such time that I see such a study I'll continue to buy the cheapest gas money can buy and laugh at those who'd willingly spend fully a dime more on a different brand across the street.

 

im lost too. i have been using chevron 93 since 1997 ?

 

I tend to use Amoco and Mobile. I stay away from no name gas

 

I've looked for research on this for years. This is my personal testimony on my 2k2 Maxima. I've had pinging problems. I've tried just about every name brand of gasoline. First off, Texaco and Shell both use Shell gasoline. I believe Chevron will follow, but don't hold me to this. I used at least 4 tanks of each gasoline to rule out a bad batch. Mobil = pinging. Texaco = pinging, but increased gas mileage. Amoco = very slight pinging when air is on, but none during normal operation/good gas mileage. Sunoco Ultra 94 = no pinging under any circumstances, good mileage. Shell = pinging, but increased gas mileage. I'm currently trying the new Shell V-Power gasoline for a few tank fulls. I just filled up yesterday. I definately see increased mileage already from the inaccurate Maxima computer, but it's consistantly 3mpg off actual mpg. So far I haven't experienced any pinging from the new Shell which is great news for me because neither Sunoco or Amoco are close to my house. Mobil has performed horribly in my car even trying different stations. They must be using Exxon's gasolines which are hideous. I was able to find a decent write up on gasolines. I will try to find it when I get home. Amoco was able to clean red deposits left by Shell gasolines. This was an older write up, but it was done for I think 100,000 miles.

 

just stick with the major brand of gas
there a small gas station around here that say
"money is money gas is gas"
what kind of bs is that?

 

The basic gasoline sold by most stations, name-brand or otherwise, often comes from the same bulk tanks filled from the same pipeline. What's in the bulk tank varies seasonally, but the way it works is this: Shell, BP, etc. puts their half a million gallons or so in one end and takes an equivalent amount out at the other end. Who actually made what is delivered is irrelevant. All of the refineries put in gasoline made to an industry spec. so they don't care who made what they take out. The difference comes when the delivery truck is filled. Additives, detergent, etc are blended in at that point. Some of the big names make their own additive packages, and the rest get additive packages made by the same companies or a handful of other large reputable chemical companies. All of these additive packages must now meet stringent federal standards and in the last few years the performance difference has become minimal. Winter blends do seem to ping more than summer blends, as they contain a higher percentage of volatiles to aid starting. My approach is to buy my gas from a station that does a lot of business so the fuel is fresh, blended for the right season, and not full of condensation.

 

yup, thats why i go to arco, lotta people go there, and its the cheapest place to get 91 in my area.

 

i believe you hit it right on the nail BigAl. thats exactly my philosophy.

 

they dont sell sunoco 94 in my area.....i just buy sunoco 93

 

i go to the no name guy cuz i know him and know what he does to his gas. also since he sells 93 for $1.79 so he gets a lot of traffic. ive never had a problem w/ his gas and i get the best mileage off of it

 

Home made stuff is the best

I usually use Citgo (a brand new one opened up near me so a new tank = cleaner gas than older tanks), but I've been doing a lot of highway driving lately so I've been filling up at the Mobil gas stations on the highway oases.

 

Yep, the only discretion I make whatsoever with the gas I buy, besides price, is if it looks like a place that sees a lot of traffic. I'd rather buy from a large place of any brand, than a tiny place on some ****ant road and it's got the same gas in the tank it had in 1975. After that, it's splitting hairs. Until I see a meaningful and objective report/study discerning the differences between any gasoline brands I will continue to buy the cheapest I can get my hands on. I always have, and have never been made aware of any differences between any of the ones I get.

 

Well, I learned a couple of REALLY interesting things living here in Florida, and finding that Hurricanes really affect gas flow here... all gas in sold in Central Florida flows through Tampa Bay, via a pipeline to a a place just south of OIA (Orlando International Airport) - the place is called Taft - all gas is stored in the same container... they then 'grade the fuel' by further refining, put it trucks and ship to all of the stations in Central Florida -

I was shocked.

Basically all gas = no matter the station I go to came from an Oil Well in the Gulf of Mexico, and is refined in Central Florida... so I have to really question the what brand is really better question, basically I'm now not brand loyal whatsoever when it comes to fuel for my cars - I also don't run 'premium' fuel - as it's the first to run out during hurricane season, I'd rather the car be 'used' to the low grade fuel. I then run STP Fuel Injector Cleaner every 4th tankful.

 

This is a very old thread, so that a number of brands listed here are no longer available: Amoco (now BP) and Texaco (now Chevron). But I know that Chevron had to sell off a number of Texaco station locations back when they merged with Texaco, so (for example) most of the former Texaco stations in Colorado are now branded Shell (who bought them from Chevron). Also, Sunoco no longer makes a 94 octane premium gasoline -- got eliminated with all of the federal government controls of gasoline volitility. Also Amoco's Crystal Clear Premium Gasoline (that was only sold in the eastern half of the country) was also eliminated for the same reason.

Now to the question of gasoline in central Florida. The previous poster is correct that a single pipeline from Tampa supplies this product -- and that all brands of the same grade are comingled (stored in the same tank) at Taft. But there is no refinery in central Florida (as implied) and the gasoline sold there is a blend of all of the refined gasoline delivered to the pipeline origin location in Tampa by barge or tanker from a number of refineries -- most along the Gulf Coast from as far away as Houston. So the only difference in gasoline from brand to brand in central Florida (and this is generally true elsewhere in the USA -- but there are exceptions) is in the additive package that is injected into the gasoline when it is being loaded into a tanker truck at the pipeline terminal.

The points made in post # 11 by BigAl are all correct -- except of the point that the federal government's additive standards are "stringent" -- IMHO they are somewhat lax. He is certainly correct about the advisability of buying fresh gasoline.

I worked for an oil company for 35 years before retiring and I generally follow the practice advocated in post # 17 by SkoorbMax of buying the cheapest gasoline available. Around here the stations with the cheapest price also have a good flow of traffic and this makes their gasoline fresh.

Because I do not trust the minimum standards the federal government sets for fuel-injector cleaner in all gasolines, I then do the following (about every 10K miles):
- Put a bottle of Chevron Techron in my tank just before filling the tank up (get the 20 gal tank bottle).
- Try to not put any more gasoline in that tank until you've burned at least 3/4 of this tank with the extra treatment.
You can use other fuel injector cleaners, but I can't say which to use. I use Techron because back in the 1990s the oil company I worked for (not Chevron) tested the available cleaners and fund that Techron was the best available -- and they used it in there branded gasoline. Since I don't know about other cleaners, I stick with the known.

Using this system, I have had no issues with fuel system deposits in my 04 which now has 95 K miles on her.

In the event you came to this thread hoping for a discussion of gasoline octane, you have been disappointed. But fear not -- I go into great detail discussing gasoline octane in this older thread titled "Octane Number and what it means" from this site:
http://forums.maxima.org/fluids-lubr...hat-means.html

Hope this all helps.

 

i use shells 93... never game me any problem... and it keeps my injectors and filters clean...

 

I just use Shell or Chevron instead of dumping in a $10.00 bottle of Techron.

 

 

A $10 bottle of Techron cost you only 0.1 cent per mile at 10K miles -- and I frequently get Techron on sale for less than $10.

I don't trust any of the oil companies to put enough fuel system cleaner in their gasoline. But I know when I do it myself it has been done -- at less than 1/10 of a cent per mile driven.

 

Good set of posts, and you are correct the Chevron Oronite (Techron) deposit control additive (DCA) is very good. But I want to correct a minor point, the DCA concentration required by the EPA is primarily for intake valve deposit (IVD) control rather than fuel system cleanliness.

 

With the use of fungible fuel (as you already pointed out) the DCA chemistry and concentration is the primary distinction between fuel brands. Some brands use the EPA's least allowable DCA concentration, others use the top tier (fuel quality standard began by the auto industry) concentration and even some exceed both for a marketable difference.

I stick with major fuel brands which advertise based upon deposit control (BP & Shell). These fuels are rarely more expensive than the local low cost fuel suppliers (Thornton's, Citgo, etc.). Although fuel pricing is set by the station owner and not the fuel company whose product they sell; usually a franchise business model.

EDIT: I should have pointed out that excessive DCA levels can have adverse affects (related to PFI engines; i.e. valve sticking & CCD).

 

Out here in Colorado, Western gas stations are frequently 10 cents per gallon cheaper than Shell or Conoco (BP left about 5 years ago). Following my stated practice, I buy most of my gasoline here from Western, Sams (or Safeway or King Supers = grocery stores) and save up to 10 cents per gallon.

I also remember back in the 90s when all gasoline refiners were experiencing hard times due to very low (or non-existant) profits. Back then there was a push by many companies to cut the additive package to the minimum. Well, profits in gasoline refining are again at very low levels. So I don't put it past many to again cut the additive package to the minimum.

Just like I don't go to a quick oil change to replace my motor oil (I do it myself), I do the same with fuel system cleaning -- I do it myself. You can choose to pay your money and take your chances. I know what I'm getting because I do it myself.

You are also correct that DCA specs by the EPA are for intake valve and fuel injector cleaning. But the Techron bottle that I buy is supposed to clean more than these 2 items -- which are in fact the 2 parts of the fuel system that need cleaning more than others.

 

SilverMax_04, thanks for supplying the fuel information to the community.

The irony is all gasoline marketers which either do not advertise detergency or are not top-tier, have been at 1.05 times the EPA's DCA LAC (least or lowest allowable concentration, I cannot recall) for sometime. Also, the other additive package components which are less regulated by the EPA and injected at the terminal (corrosion inhibitor, etc.) are also dosed at/near the lowest concentration.

Gasoline DCA additives work everywhere liquid fuel touch (valves, injectors, tank, etc.), with IVD being the most difficult to control. As such, dosing to control IVD generally mitigates other fuel system deposit issues; unless there is a fuel system design issue. Also, the ethanol fuels blends, which are sweeping across the country, have increased the deposit solvency which helps clean and control deposits.

On another note, which I didn't see listed in your other thread, all gasolines contain anit-oxidants which generally preserve fuel for 6-12 months. Therefore, OTC fuel stability additives (i.e. Sta-Bil, etc.) are unnecessary for simple winter storage. Of course carburetors should still be drained, as these issues are more related to fuel evaporation.

Note: these generalizations only apply to PFI systems such as the Maxima's; direct injection systems are different animals.

 

I used to use chevron 93, but I got sick of going in to our local station because of the people that work there( a family from egypt owns the store, and they "no speak english"
I now use shell 93, I have witnessed no difference between the 2

 

It's not cost, is that really enough to make a difference? That's a lot of gas in between treatments.

 

Has been working for me for 95 K miles.

Remember, there is some treatment in all gasoline sold in the USA. Just not enough to keep the system clean forever. So I do a clean-up treatment every 10K miles.

 

It really depends on the quality of gasoline used (and location, but that is different subject). With low cost, discount marketers then yes, the fuel system cleaner can help. With the aforementioned attributes, then it is generally unnecessary; the exception is in areas where the available fungible base gasoline is especially severe (in deposit forming tendencies).

 

Shell uses the highest octane so that might be something to think about.

 

How do you figure? Yes, this is a leading question.

 

What part don't you understand about the fact that in almost all locations in the US, the gasoline comes from the same tank. (There are exceptions in larger metro areas with multiple pipelines and or refineries -- Chicago comes to mind as a good example of an exception location.)

Here in SE Colorado for example, the Shell gasoline comes from the same tank as the Conoco gasoline (and likely the Western gasoline). The pipeline sets the octane spec and all shippers must provide product at the pipeline origin that meets that minimum spec. So the only difference in the quality of the gasoline is the difference in additive package that is put into the gasoline when it is loaded into a tanker truck for shipment from the pipeline terminal to the gas station. Same gasoline -- different additive packages.

 

Above and beyond any pipeline or terminal specifications, the fuel must meet the local (if any), state and federal specifications (including octane). In the case of octane the requirements are for truth in advertising. This is to ensure gasoline with an octane rating no less than advertised.

The requirement sets a floor for a fuel's octane rating where some refiners may provide higher than advertised octane. This octane give-away is generally small as it can cost refiners. Although, with widespread ethanol (higher octane) blending the "gasoline's" octane contribution is decreased, and refineries may be octane 'rich', and can give some away (have no other products to put these stocks into).

 

My point was that for very many locations, all of the gasoline for all of the brands comes from one (or two) tanks in a given area. So even if there is some "octane giveaway" (more on this below), it goes into a tank that is shared by all who use that pipeline. Only when the trucks load at a refinery or a pipeline that only has one shipper does the octane giveaway end up in the gasoline of only one brand. And even then, there may well be product exchanges or wholesale sales that give that higher than advertised gasoline octane to other brands. (An example: There is a refinery at Mandan, ND that moves product to Minneapolis on a pipeline. That is the only refinery putting product in that pipeline. But the company that owns that refinery probably has exchanges or sales agreements with a number of brands. So most of the gasoline sold in the area of that refinery and pipeline comes from that one refinery -- no matter which brand is selling it at a gas station.)

There are cases where government specs on gasoline volitility result in having to make higher than advertised octane simply to meet the more stringent volitility specs. Typically this is a situation that only lasts for the part of the year where that volitility spec is mandated.

 

I understand how the fungible fuel market functions. I was making a separate point regarding octane giveaway (which can occur with either fungible or single source base fuels).

Your Mandan example is quite typical, and is why you see things like discount provider tankers at major's terminals (i.e. Thornton's truck at a BP terminal). You can even expand the Minnesota example to include the Flint Hills refinery, which produces gasoline, but does not market gasoline to the public.

 

okay people who say that all gas is the same are somewhat mistaken. My dad drives a toyota prius, so he can measure variances in mileage and all that crap. He fills at different gas stations and different brands give him different gas mileages. Shell & Costco gas usually give him an upwards 52+ while cheap no-name gas gives him as low as 48.

People are correct though when they say that all gas comes from the same refinery and the only difference is the additives. But NOT ALL gas stations use the same refinery, and there are many different refineries out there that produce different qualities of gasoline. Thats where you get the variance in gas.

Personally i fill Shell V-Power. Your manual recommends 91+ octane anyways unless you drive a VQ30.

 

Colonel, You can get that small of a difference in gasoline mileage (8%) just from differences over time in temperature, wind direction, etc. Would not make any major decisions on which brand is best based on this minor variation in mileage.

Not certain what you are trying to say here. There are many refineries in the USA. But they all do not supply all locations. And away from these refineries, the gasoline is usually moved by pipeline to terminal locations. More and more frequently, a number of different refineries all ship in the same pipeline (Colonial P/L along the east cost is a good example) and the gasoline is all moved as comingled (mixed together) so that any minor differences between refineries are all mixed together. Thus, for these locations, the gasoline all effectively comes out of the same terminal tank -- with only the additive package being different between brands. In other locations like Chicago, for example, there are 3 local refineries and at least 2 different common carrier pipelines all supplying product to this area. Each will have slightly different gasoline because of minor differences between refineries. Bottom line, it is not proper to assume that all gasoline is the same, and not proper to assume that all gasoline is different. It depends on each location and the way the gasoline is supplied to that location. My point was that for many locations in the USA, all of the gasoline there comes out of the same terminal tank.

My manual says that 91 octane is recommended for optimum performance, but that 87 octane is acceptable. It also allows me to buy 85 octane gasoline at higher elevations. Well, it turns out that at 6 K feet elevation (Colorado Springs) 85 octane gasoline (in a non-turbo-charged engine) burns like 91 octane gasoline at sea level. So here I burn 85 octane and it works fine. (This is not E85 which is 85% ethanol, but is 85 octane regular gasoline sold at higher elevations in the USA.) When I go back east (or west) I buy the cheapest grade of gasoline which is sometimes mid-grade with ethanol and sometimes 87 octane. All work fine in my 04. If I were racing my Max, I would only burn 91 octane at lower elevations, but since I don't do that, I don't pay the extra money for performance I don't plan to use.

There are a lot of octane myths out there. If you want to learn more about gasoline octane check out my earlier posts on this thread.
http://forums.maxima.org/fluids-lubr...hat-means.html

 

I have to disagree with you here completely on 85 octane doing just as good of a job here in Colorado Springs as 91 octane does at sea level. I have tried running the 85 in my Max on numerous occasions. Each and every time the 91 gets flushed out of the tank my car loses a noticeable amount of power. Even worse is my fuel economy drops around 1-2 mpg city. At first I thought this was just in my head and that I was simply driving the car harder. I tested 85 for a month and drove about 1k miles with it. Over the course of that month on every tank I averaged 19-20 mpg city. I then switched to 91 and drove another 1k miles for a month, all city. That tank averaged 20-21 and the car had a noticeable improvement on power. Keep in mind I did this test in the fall when I knew I wouldn't be using the A/C and messing up the results.

Even knowing this info every 10-15 tankfuls I'll do two back to back fills with 85 hoping something changes I suppose and my car magically gives the same numbers and power as it does with 91. Every time the 91 leaves the tank my power goes down and mileage drops a little over 1mpg. I now only use 91 as I figure even if I put 85 in to try and save money it'll even out anyway with the decreased mileage.

Btw, I see you use Techron. I used to use this as well but I've changed to another product called BG-44K. It's supposed to do a better job than Techron in cleaning the injectors but much better for the intake valves, etc. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this product seeing as you have a lot of knowledge on the subject.