I DO love to keep my car looking awesome. I use Zaino by hand with head turning results. Car is clayed twice a year etc. At any rate, the warmer months are coming and I'm thinking about a porter cable orbital buffer...But I'm scared . I see so many cars with burned paint do to machine buffing (the hologram look) and I feel like "if it aint broken- don't try to fix it. But then I hear about how much better the process is with a porter cable and how much more effective the products are when used in conjunction with a machine... But is this thing safe in the hands of somebody who has never used one and only done polishing and waxing by hand?

 

There was a thread about this last week with the same concerns, check it out: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=373726 (link fixed)

In short, though, there is very, very little chance of damaging anything with a random orbital buffer such as a PC. I only used a random orbital for waxing, but I polish with a high speed rotary which can very easily burn through the paint or cause swirls if the person using it is inexperienced.

 

Thanks for the reply- what do you think of the deal from autopia-carcare.com. It sells for 179.99 and comes with a bunch of sonus pads to work with.

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/son-daspol-kit.html.

 

As said before, a random orbital isn't going to hurt anything. A HS is what's really going to hurt something. You'll love using a random orbital, it's easy and alot faster than doing it by hand, and it heats up the chemical and makes it work better. I just had my car HS'ed by a professional, and I have to say, it's amazing. The only problem with it is that my paint is very weak on my bumpers, and some old bug guts left a couple nice black spots on my front bumper at 3,000rpms, which isn't very fast in the HS world. If your paint is in pretty good shape (no acid, bug or crap like that) then get your car HS'ed. The results are definitely worth it, but I wouldn't do it yourself the first time.


I have an 18lb gem orbital, and I love it. Works great for light polishing/waxing.

 

HS= High speed? Is there other buffers that go at some rediculous RPM?

 

Good to see they have it on sale. Though you can definitely get it for less than that by buying separately. The DAS kit from Autopia and the 7336 from Lowes.

 

Yes. Many rotaries can go up to 3000 RPM (Case in point, the Makita 9227 can go from 600 RPM - 3000 RPM, The DeWalt DW 849 has a RPM range of 1000 - 3000). For most polishing tasks, anything higher than 1500 would be quite damaging to the finish of a car.

 

i still dont know what compounds to purchase and use with my pc ??
i was thinkin about the meguiars 3 step system but im not sure if its needed. I understand that its very important to stay away from unnecessary products such as abrasive products. my paint is in EXTREMLY good condition. there are absolutly no scratches, bugs, oxidation or anything of that kind. i clay once a year and everytime i wax, there will be a very nice shinne and that wet look on the car. however it does have swirl marks that can be seen when the light hits it at different angels.

where do u guys think i should start? just a swirl removed and wax? or do i need to polish as well? i dont want to use anything unnecessary, im thinkin polishing is not required for me.....

 

A swirl remover could do the trick, but I doubt it since these do more hiding than anything else. A lot of polishes can be the same way, with fillers that just hide marks, scratches and swirls, but some (read as: more abrasive) polishes will do a better job at removing them and make the harder-to-remove swirls stay hidden for longer with a good coat of wax.

Even if the SMR does the trick without a polish, pick up a nonabrasive polish or glaze to better bring out the shine and then throw on a coat of wax or sealant to protect.

 

if im not mistaken, polishes remove a layer of clear coat that contains all the crap and swirl marks. am i right?

 

Modern automobile paint jobs have a clear coat only about as thick as the cellophane wrapping paper around a carton of cigarettes. That being said, if the polish destroyed a "layer" of clear coat everytime you polished, you'd be wearing down the paint in no time.

There are many nonabrasive and 100% paint-safe polishes out there, and even the ones that aren't shouldn't be too abrasive. Some abrasive polishes can "remove" light scratches in the process of buffing, while others may contain simple fillers that fill in the cracks and hide them temporarily.

The most effective way to get rid of swirls and scratches is by compounding. The process varies depending on the job, and should only be done by someone who has experience. Most detailers, including myself, will argue that you will rarely, if ever, be able to *completely* rid your car of swirls for good.

 

You won't burn your paint with the PC. Chances are overwhelmingly good that you won't be agressive enough with it for quite some time because of your fear of burning the paint. When I saw on Griots that it "wouldn't" burn the paint I didn't beleive it for a second, but it really is true. I mean, I wouldn't let it sit in one spot with heavy polish for a minute and a half, but I have had it on 5 going sllllooooowwwwww over sections of the paint with no problems at all. It's a very safe machine. Use at your own risk, but don't refuse to buy one because you're scared, it's just not a good reason not to buy one. Buy it and start out with light polishes at slow speeds. As you get more confident you can be more agressive. You will develop a feel for it after a while.

I actually just bought a 9227 because the PC isn't agressive enough to do other people's cars (which I don't want to spend a lot of time on) with. I need to get some practice panels though.

 

I do not agree that it should only be done by someone with experience. removing your own scratches and swirls is the main reason a lot of people get into detailing in the first place. Obviously rotary buffers and wool pads and such require experience, but hitting a panel with a PC and DACP is not a job only for experts.

As far as completely ridding your car of swirls, it depends. You can do it on a daily driver but it will require a lot of work. On a southern car or a garage queen or whatever, it's more than possible, and I intend to do it on a regular basis once I get a garage.

 

Start with a light polish such as Menzerna FP and move up. If it's taking excessive amounts of time or you're simply not getting results move up to DACP or the like. I want to try whatever it was that was Menzerna's DACP level polish...hoping it doesn't contain fillers that make it hard to tell when it's done as DACP does.

 

I said that compounding should only be done by people with experience, not scratch removal and swirl removal, and I stand by that. Someone who doesn't know the difference between different compounds and finishing glazes and how they react with the paint and varying degrees of speed shouldn't be working on a car with the aforementioned unless they don't care about the results. I never said that only the experienced should work on swirls or scratches regardless of the product used. And in any event, I use a high speed rotary to buff and only occasionally use a random orbital for waxing only, and high speed buffing should *definitely* not be done by someone with little to no experience.

As far as permanently getting rid of swirls, I'm still a nonbeliever in that. I own a detailing shop in MA and I'm very confident in my work and my knowledge, but I know swirls can come back if the paint isn't properly maintained with waxing, sealing, etc. However, that's not to say they ALL come back ALL the time.

 

I DEFINITELY agree as far as rotaries...that's why I'm not going anywhere near my car with the Makita until I get a hold of some practice panels...or use my GF's practice car.

Compounding though...I mean something like DACP really isn't that dangerous...or are you talking about things more agressive than that? Because I didn't know about all the lies that product manufactuers tell about glazes and polishes and stuff when I first started, but the net result was usually that I wasn't agressive enough. The PC is sooooo gentle with the car that I think you really have to try to do any major damage. If you're being careful at all I really don't think there's much to it other than just getting a feel for it...I managed to keep my car looking pretty sweet despite being clueless at first.

My main problem for the first few years was that my swirls would always come back and that I couldn't get scratches out that well. As I learned, I became a lot more agressive and got better results. Unless someone is an idiot, it's not that hard to polish and not screw the car up.

Right right, I'm not saying anything different. It's *all* about the work you put into it. I just waxed my car the other day, and this is probably the first year I haven't seen a significant return of swirls after buffing 90%+ of them out last year. That said, my car's paint rules my life. 2 bucket washing, chenille wash pads, nothing but expensive microfiber touching the paint, using air to help dry the car, parking carefully, etc. For anyone for whom this isn't a hobby, it's impossible. My car is a daily driver and I don't have a garage though...so keeping swirls away isn't *impossible*.

Where's your shop? What products do you use?

 

Hmm, The PC has a range of 1500-6000 OPM. Orbits per minute. Although this SEEMS twice as fast as the Makita, it is safe because of the travel of the orbit, Ergo, its not 6000 RPM, but 6000 OPM. Am I correct in tis assumption? Okay OKay , I need to stop being so I think I am going to go with the Lowes derivative of this beast and get the pads online.

 

People never understand how car enthusiasts feel about their cars. My 2+ washes per week is viewed as OCD by most people (and part of it is, I guess, but I like to think of it more as keeping up my advertisement) but it is really just my hobby, despite cleaning cars every day.

I'm located in Braintree, but I don't work full years because I'm paying for college. You'd be surprised at how many young detailers are in this area - I worked for a local Chrysler dealership to learn more when I first started, and the guy who owned the subcontracted company was 21. Anyway, I use products from vendors, but I will be switching vendors this spring I think. PM me if you're ever interested in talking.

PS: Sorry to hijack the thread

 

You should come to a meet some time! There is, I'm sorry to say, a lack of really good paint care represented at the NE meets. We need to up the bar!

Interesting about the detailing market because I've actually thought about detailing if I decide I can't take working in computers anymore. Sounds like there's a lot of competition though. I'll def shoot you a PM if I need a detail sometime though...never know without a garage....

 

do u guys recommend meguiar's 3 step system with the PC7424 ?