I'm comfused as a baby racoon, in a burlap sack! E-manage has been on the car for a week and with the use of my data logging software, I've been able to get a getto tune done to where the AFR is around 11. Today, I installed a set of 570cc injectors, and made the nessessary changes to the E-manage, changing the parameters from 270 to 570, and in the air correction graph I changed the idol correction from -5 to -50, at TPS 0,3,and 6. For some reason I'm still flooding the cylinders! I have tried to cut fuel from every correction I know of but the car still will not start. When I pull the plugs, they are dripping with fuel, and raw fuel can be smelled from the tailpipe. By any chance does any one have an idea of what could be wrong? Grad School has started and I need to get this POS running tommorrow. PPPPLLLEEEAASSE!!!! I need help. I'll love you for ever!! But not in a nasty way; purely platonic.
Choray




By the way, how in the hell does one post a pic?

 

Sounds like a cold start fuel enrichment problem due to the large injectors. E-manage doesn't make any adjustment to how much fuel is injected at start up, so the ecu is dumping fuel in thinking the injectors are still the small ones. Mardi solved this problem by wiring a start button and using it for starting instead of the key (still have to have the key in the on position).

 

I don't know but i am running 510cc injectors w/o any trouble. The car cranks on the first try every time. Do you have a walbro FP w/ a adj FPR? If so try playing w/ the base Fuel Pressure. What Stephen mentioned is true but i don't see why the car would be running that rich to begin with if all the corrections are done

 

I'm using the walbro pump and the fact FPR with an fmu. I have another regulator, but i was trying to fix one problem at a time. I'm going to runto the parts store and get some elcheapo plugs to make sure my NGKs are not fouled out. The belly pan is down, so i'll try the hot wire thing. Thanks for the responses!
Choray

 

It doesn't have anything to do with the air/fuel corrections if my understanding of how it works is correct. When you try to cold start the car it's my understanding that the injectors spray fuel for a certain amount of time (half second, quarter second, or whatever) but because he has injectors that are more than twice as big as stock it is spraying way too much fuel and flooding.

Choray are you sure you hooked your coilpacks up? I did that yesterday lol. Also just get some el cheapo NGK coppers, they are like $1.65 a piece.

 

All the coil packs are hooked up and i have all the plugs out letting the cylnders dry out. I was called into work so it will be tonight before I can work on it.

 

Were all the plugs covered in fuel, or just one or two?

Did you use some lube on the o-rings before install?

You might have nicked on of the o-rings and fuel is getting by. But if all the cylinders are getting too much fuel that is probably not it.

 

I used plenty of oil on the install, and all 6 plugs are dripping. Im thinking that the fact FPR might be stuck closed, putting too much fuel in. I haven't checked to see if im getting a good spark yet, and I have some new plugs to put in. I'm also going to plug that vaccum line going to the FPR to see if I cant get it to reduce pressure.
Choray

 

is it just me or does it seem like youve bought more than enough for the greddy and larger injectors to work. someone told me it was not nessessary for a fpr and fmu...and that it was just another way of turboing...if more rudimentary. some enlightenment on this subject would be cool if possible. Thanks.

 

There are a few ways to get the fuel pressure needed for forced induction. The simplest is to get an upgraded pump, which is why everyone uses the walbro, then use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, which is the FMU. As the car starts to boost, the FMU clamps off the return line so that the injectors see more pressure. The key is that the factory FPR still controls flow during non boosted driving and start up. To be able to control all the fuel components you need a SAFC or E-manage to decrease or increase the amount of fuel the motor sees at different rpm. The problem with a set up with the pump, FMU, and SAFC, is that at partial throddle the car can load up and back fire. When you add bigger injectors to the mix, there is where the whole can of worms thing comes in. You have to retune everything to trick the computer.
I have gone from this set up to one that has the pump, adjustable FPR, larger injectors, and E-manage. With this set up I can set the fuel pressure at a constant rate and use the E-manage to fine tune the amount of fuel at certain rps and certain throddle positions, leaving the backfires out of the picture. At the current point the pump has been in the car since the turbo went on, the Emanage went on 2 weeks ago, and has been getto tuned to where it is streetable, but not optimal. Yesterday the injectors went on and im trying to work the bugs out of them before I put on the AFPR, then it is the boost controller, then Dyno tuning till I have 400 whp.
Now I assume your a newbie, and all newbs ask the same question, What is the difference between a SAFC and Greddy E-manage? They do the same thing in that they allow you add or subtract fuel at certain rmps, and throddle position (TPS). The E-manage has 500 times the adjustability of the SAFC. The SAFC has a low TPS setting and a high TPS setting that you can adjust between 10% to 100% of the TPS. On the low setting you can tune the car to drive normally by adjusting MAF input at 10 different rpm points, then like wise for the high TPS settings. I had the cut off for the low TPS and high TPS set at 50%, so that when I reached 1/2 throddle the fuel map would change to the high TPS setting and you should be in boost by then. That whole explanation comes to this, you have about 20 changes that can be made to the fuel map.
Now the E-manage is a whole new animal! Instead of having a high TPS and a low TPS one can adjust at TPS 0,3,6,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,50,60,70,80,90,and 100, at 16 different rmps that can be scaled to your car. That gives you 256 adjustment rather than 20. More is better! On top of that you can get the ingnition harness that gives you the capability to advance or retard timing to find a little more power. Once you've found that power you can use the injector harness to increase the pulse width of the injector once the capabilities of the MAF meter has been surpassed. And there is a function to where you can move to a larger injector, and the E-manage tricks the computer. That is where I am now.
All of this could not have been done with out my Zeitronics data logging Wide ban o2 program. Its pimp and I highly recommend it.

Having said that, I think I've found the prob. I found that if I unplugged the fuel pump and started the car, it would cough; which was a hell of a lot more than it was doing before. Once it caughed I could plug in the pump and it would run......, sickly, but run nun-the-less. That leads me to beleave that there is a vaccum leak some where. Uppon further inspection I found what looks like a PCV valve, that is located on the rear valve cover just behind the TB, was cracked and not seated well. It looks like goes into the intake near the place that the factory FPR gets its vaccum signal. I've flooded the cylnders so much that the massive amounts fuel in the oil has caused a tick in the heads, but it dimminishes more and more it runs. I think an oil change will cover that no prob.
Off the top of my head that is all I can think of. Fellas, if my explainations above are off base feel free to pipe-in, as I am still an amature tuner.

Thank you for your attention and support.
Choray

 

And Neal you jinxed me. At one point It finnally got started and the back 3 coils were un plugged. Hence the running like $hit that you mentioned in your thread. At one point I thought I had left a beer bottle in the lower intake runner. But I had much deeper problems than that. I hadn't laughed that hard in some time.

 

thanks, that was a good explanation. I knew of the difference of the safc and the emanage in that the emanage would allow for timing changes, other than that, everything was new. So that zietronics thing allows you to log the data of your runs or something and semi tune the car? Im still a little foggy on the whole wide band o2 thing.

 

Sorry to jinx you choray

Zeitronics or any other WBO2 just tells you how much oxygen is in your exhaust. Unburned air means more oxygen in the exhaust because there wasn't enough fuel present to burn all the oxygen you had in your cylinder. Not enough fuel means you are lean.

Datalogging in terms of WBO2 sensors is just the ability for the wideband controller to save the data it is recieving from the sensor, so that you can look at it later. Many many different brands and models of WBO2 sensors allow datalogging. Zeitronix, PLX, AEM, Innovate, TechEdge, and the list goes on and on. It is very hard to keep one eye on your wideband, one eye on the road, one eye on the speedometer, and one eye on the tachometer all at the same time. Datalogging makes it so you don't have to pay attention to the display on your WBO2, you can just let it record all the data, then you can check out what was going on with your air fuel ratio later when you don't have to try to avoid that old lady walking across the street.

Most wideband O2 sensors have the ability to datalog multiple inputs (to record not only your air fuel ratio, but also other parameters such as RPM, boost pressure, throttle position, any number of things - all so you can look at them later. This is key because datalogging AFR alone doesn't really tell you much. All it would give you would be a timestamp and an air fuel ratio. For instance on one line it might say "6.174 14.2" which tells you what? It tells you that 6.174 seconds after you started your datalogging session, you had an AFR of 14.2 (there will be many many timestamps and air fuel ratios, depending on how long you were actually recording the data.) But then you ask yourself "well what the hell was I doing at 6.174 seconds into my datalogging session? Was I at WOT? Was I at idle throttle. Was I at 6000rpm, or was I at 2000rpm? Was I in vacuum, or was I at 12 pounds of boost?" That is why to really utilize datalogging of AFR to the fullest, you need to have at least one other thing to reference your AFR to. That way you can start making sense of things. If your WBO2 sensor has the ability to datalog multiple inputs at a time, you can basically have a total record of what was going on at any given time in your recording session. You could see for instance that "at 6.174 seconds I had an AFR of 14.2, I was at 3750rpm, my boost pressure was 10psi, and my throttle position was 100%" Thus you would know that you need to take steps to get that AFR back in line or you are going to end up replacing a motor like I just did this weekend...

 

Man, just a super-informative thread.

 

awesome, thanks guys. so the wideband o2 data logging thing sounds like a pretty decent investment at least to semi tune the car. I know the harness or sensor or whatever can be bought with the emanage, but what does it cost for the datalogging software, roughly.

 

hmm, nvm, i found it already.

 

Here we go. The POS runs but poorly. At idle its sick and want to die. when I start it it idles between 450 and 600, and egt is 200 degrees cooler, it was at 800F and now its at 600F. As soon as I rev the engine it runs ok, but after it idles down it runsx like crap, or just dies. To get it started again I have to unplug the fuel pump, crank till it starts , then plug the pump back in. That is a pain at a red light w/a cop behind you. How are you guys reducing the amount of fuel at idle with bigger injectors? Please don't tell me that need a JWT ecu! I don't want to give those chicken F...ers and money.
Hollar back
Choray

 

The only thing i have is stock fp and scalling factor set to 270cc=510cc

 

How getto is this. I've wired in a relay to shut off the fuel pump when the starter is engaged. Now the car starts like a champ, although its still running rich. NOw i've blown another wheel bearing.
Thanks for all the responses.
Choray

 

Haven't read the entire thread but call this guy he is majic with emanage and ca really help you out- his name is Dan. he runs Godspeed in Michigan. I am using emanage with nothing but 555cc and tuning. Although I had timing issues and used a technosquare ECU also for timing.

248-305-8140
248-305-8150