Why should I not build the VQ33 stroker?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
Why should I not build the VQ33 stroker?
Cost, I might have a spare engine comming in for free(VQ30DEK). I should be able to get the VQ35 Piston/Rods/Crank for under 400.
I know the piston will come out the block .6mm, but will it actually hit anything in the head? I know it will be a high compression engine but it should run on 93octane with the SMT6/7 Tuning it.
What is stopping me from actually running this engine?
I know the piston will come out the block .6mm, but will it actually hit anything in the head? I know it will be a high compression engine but it should run on 93octane with the SMT6/7 Tuning it.
What is stopping me from actually running this engine?
I know you're doing this for the higher compression, but since the 3.5 heads outflow the 3.0 heads, that offsets the advantage. Tilley dynoed higher with the full 3.5 at 10.3 compression than the hybrid with a 00VI and 11.5 comp. He gained something like 25wtq and a few hp.
Just throw a junkyard VQ35 in for 800$ off car-part and call it a day. Then sell the 00 engine for the extra dough.
Just throw a junkyard VQ35 in for 800$ off car-part and call it a day. Then sell the 00 engine for the extra dough.
Originally Posted by JClaw
I know you're doing this for the higher compression, but since the 3.5 heads outflow the 3.0 heads, that offsets the advantage. Tilley dynoed higher with the full 3.5 at 10.3 compression than the hybrid with a 00VI and 11.5 comp. He gained something like 25wtq and a few hp.
I'll admit that the full 3.5 swap is going to make the most power, but a stroker 3.3 would be fun to do, if you have that much time on your hands.
Kev, I would just take the pistons to a machine shop and have them mill .6 mm off the top of the pistons.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
Would any machine shop be able to do it or would I have to take it to like a specialty engine shop. I would call around but no one is open or has power because of hte Hurricane.
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,371
Originally Posted by krismax
it will be diff but you will be disapointed by the power gained.
this would be the least cost effective way to make 20hp but being different is cool and so is trying new things
Originally Posted by aznsap
what would happen if you didn't mill .6mm off the top of the piston head? and would that lower the compression ratio?
The head gasket is .036" thick, so there would still be about .012" clearance between head and piston at rest. Since the rods will stretch with rpm and temperature rise, eventually the piston will contact the head.
Tilley was ONE dyno...with LOTS of variables and NO tuning. This was definitely not proven.
The VQ30 heads aren't that bad judging by the SC/TC VQ30ers gaining 11-13whp per PSI non-intercooled.
I'd bet a VQ33 w/higher compression will outperform a VQ35 hybrid withOUT VTC intake manifold vs. intake manifold. The bottle neck is the cams NOT heads IMO once you've got a MEVI, DEK, or 5.5gen intake manifold.
The VQ30 heads aren't that bad judging by the SC/TC VQ30ers gaining 11-13whp per PSI non-intercooled.
I'd bet a VQ33 w/higher compression will outperform a VQ35 hybrid withOUT VTC intake manifold vs. intake manifold. The bottle neck is the cams NOT heads IMO once you've got a MEVI, DEK, or 5.5gen intake manifold.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
Alrighty fellas the DEK is on its way 
Now is it worth it to take it apart and find some VQ35crank/rods/.6milled down pistons and compleade this?
I do not know when or if it would go in my car.
Icey, you think this WILL make power in the 220+ range?
Now is it worth it to take it apart and find some VQ35crank/rods/.6milled down pistons and compleade this?
I do not know when or if it would go in my car.
Icey, you think this WILL make power in the 220+ range?
I can't say if it's worth it or not, since that is a lot of work for ~20whp not to mention the reliability once you take a factory motor apart.
VQ30DEKs with mods peak around ~210whp or 70whp/liter, so theoretically 21whp from the extra displacement would yield you 230+whp. The increased stroke will also bring the torque curve sooner, since you'll be increasing the piston speed.
I hope somebody tries it and tunes properly to see what is possible.
VQ30DEKs with mods peak around ~210whp or 70whp/liter, so theoretically 21whp from the extra displacement would yield you 230+whp. The increased stroke will also bring the torque curve sooner, since you'll be increasing the piston speed.
I hope somebody tries it and tunes properly to see what is possible.
Originally Posted by Kevlo911
Alrighty fellas the DEK is on its way
Now is it worth it to take it apart and find some VQ35crank/rods/.6milled down pistons and compleade this?
I do not know when or if it would go in my car.
Icey, you think this WILL make power in the 220+ range?
Now is it worth it to take it apart and find some VQ35crank/rods/.6milled down pistons and compleade this?
I do not know when or if it would go in my car.
Icey, you think this WILL make power in the 220+ range?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
Well I have a free DEK comming. Now I just need the pistons/crank/rods from a vq35. I have taken apart the DEK before. So I am pretty sure I can put it together in working condition. But I dont know if I can install the engine in my car or not. I do not think I have to tools to do so. Maybe I can take it to Jay25 in ATL to help me swap the engines or something like that. Also what kind of shop would I take it to to get the pistons milled down .6mm?
To me this seems as if this is going to cost just as much as doing a full VQ35 swap, will take more time, and will yield less power. I don't see the benefits of this just to be different.
.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
Wow, I explained the costs eariler. Now it seems it will be EVEN CHEAPER!!
VQ30DE-k = FREE
VQ35 C/R/P = 60-200
Milling pistons = ?Guesstamet of 300
Total cost 360-500.
Cost of VQ35swap = 800-1200
VQ30DE-k = FREE
VQ35 C/R/P = 60-200
Milling pistons = ?Guesstamet of 300
Total cost 360-500.
Cost of VQ35swap = 800-1200
Originally Posted by Kevlo911
Wow, I explained the costs eariler. Now it seems it will be EVEN CHEAPER!!
VQ30DE-k = FREE
VQ35 C/R/P = 60-200
Milling pistons = ?Guesstamet of 300
Total cost 360-500.
Cost of VQ35swap = 800-1200
VQ30DE-k = FREE
VQ35 C/R/P = 60-200
Milling pistons = ?Guesstamet of 300
Total cost 360-500.
Cost of VQ35swap = 800-1200
Another option that doesn't require modifying pistons is to find VK45DE rods/pistons to use with the VQ35 crank in a VQ30 block.
I saw two VK45DEs go for dirt cheap on eBay once, but haven't seen any lately.
I saw two VK45DEs go for dirt cheap on eBay once, but haven't seen any lately.
I'd have to redo the numbers, but I think so based on FSMs I have. Ask SR20DEN to know for sure.
Again, it's VQ30 block/heads, VQ35 crank, and VK45DE rods/pistons. BTW, VK45DEs use forged steel rods with VQ30 style rod nut/bolts that handle an even longer stroke then the VQ35 and up to factory 6900rpm redline.
Here were the two VK45DEs I saw:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...440578&fromMak
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW
Again, it's VQ30 block/heads, VQ35 crank, and VK45DE rods/pistons. BTW, VK45DEs use forged steel rods with VQ30 style rod nut/bolts that handle an even longer stroke then the VQ35 and up to factory 6900rpm redline.
Here were the two VK45DEs I saw:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...440578&fromMak
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW
I need to find those deals man. Good thing I have plenty of time and this type deal might come again.
Here's an old email I sent Steve...
Steve,
I've found another way I believe to make the VQ33 idea
work. As you know with the VQ35 crank/rods and VQ30
pistons, the overall length would push the piston
above deck height. However, from another SAE tech doc
I have, the VQ30 and VK45DE(Infinity Q45) motors share
a lot of similarities such as the same 93mm bore. So,
I downloaded the Q45 FSM from www.phatg20.net and its
pistons *SHOULD* buy us 3.4mm(45.4mm vs. 42mm) IF I'm
reading the correct dimension. Basically, the piston
pin HOLE diameter on both is the same and the piston
pin OUTER diameter is the same. The only difference I
see on the small end of the rod is that the
"Connecting rod small end inner diameter" is
23.980-24mm for the VQ30 and 24.980-25mm for the VK45,
so 1mm difference. However, the piston pin bushing
inner diameter is also the same. Also, the piston
ring end gaps are pretty close, except on the 2nd
ring.
I've found another way I believe to make the VQ33 idea
work. As you know with the VQ35 crank/rods and VQ30
pistons, the overall length would push the piston
above deck height. However, from another SAE tech doc
I have, the VQ30 and VK45DE(Infinity Q45) motors share
a lot of similarities such as the same 93mm bore. So,
I downloaded the Q45 FSM from www.phatg20.net and its
pistons *SHOULD* buy us 3.4mm(45.4mm vs. 42mm) IF I'm
reading the correct dimension. Basically, the piston
pin HOLE diameter on both is the same and the piston
pin OUTER diameter is the same. The only difference I
see on the small end of the rod is that the
"Connecting rod small end inner diameter" is
23.980-24mm for the VQ30 and 24.980-25mm for the VK45,
so 1mm difference. However, the piston pin bushing
inner diameter is also the same. Also, the piston
ring end gaps are pretty close, except on the 2nd
ring.
Steve,
One more thing I noticed...you can use the VK45DE rods
with the VQ35 crank, since both "Connecting rod big
end inner diameter" is 55.000-55.013mm on both
assuming its outer profile doesn't interfere. This
would add 2.8mm to overall length, since the VQ35
center distance is 144.15-144.25mm vs. the VK45DE
146.95-147.05mm.
Wouldn't the VK45 rod/piston and VQ35 crank overall
length be close to perfect or what?
One more thing I noticed...you can use the VK45DE rods
with the VQ35 crank, since both "Connecting rod big
end inner diameter" is 55.000-55.013mm on both
assuming its outer profile doesn't interfere. This
would add 2.8mm to overall length, since the VQ35
center distance is 144.15-144.25mm vs. the VK45DE
146.95-147.05mm.
Wouldn't the VK45 rod/piston and VQ35 crank overall
length be close to perfect or what?
Steve,
Another advantage of VK45DE rods is that they're
forged steel and with an even longer stroke then the
VQ35 and 6900rpm redline, they've got to be MUCH
stronger to support 3729ft/min. piston speeds, which
would be equivalent of a VQ35 at ~7100rpm or a VQ30 at
7800rpm.
Now to find a good price on these...
Another advantage of VK45DE rods is that they're
forged steel and with an even longer stroke then the
VQ35 and 6900rpm redline, they've got to be MUCH
stronger to support 3729ft/min. piston speeds, which
would be equivalent of a VQ35 at ~7100rpm or a VQ30 at
7800rpm.
Now to find a good price on these...
Kev. I understand what you want to do. But by reading the last post and seeing all the different parts that are needed, IMHO, it's easier to just use a 3.5VQ long block. In addition to being cheaper (probably), it would also be still factory assembled.
If you get all the misc parts, you would have to get them all checked, measured, get all the bearings, gaskets, etc.......
If you get all the misc parts, you would have to get them all checked, measured, get all the bearings, gaskets, etc.......
Originally Posted by Kevlo911
I might do that, I just need to find a shop to do it. This would be much cheaper for me and more fun that doing the VQ35 swap. Plus I want to be different. 
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
I would have to get new bearings?
I know I will have to get new gaskets and stuff. Lol, with all these differ parts I guess I have to get the engine balanced huh.
I know I will have to get new gaskets and stuff. Lol, with all these differ parts I guess I have to get the engine balanced huh.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb10330.htm
After reading that, I think I should get the engine balanced. So I would take the Crank/Rods/Pistons to them only? Correct?
Jeff, I might end up using the 35parts, do you think I would still need balancing because the pistons are being shaved?
After reading that, I think I should get the engine balanced. So I would take the Crank/Rods/Pistons to them only? Correct?
Jeff, I might end up using the 35parts, do you think I would still need balancing because the pistons are being shaved?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 35,755
From: Lake Orion, MI
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=413509
Post 7 and down
Post 7 and down
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 172
Man I think this is cool. I always wanted to see a bored and stroked maxima. I never understood why there's not much in the way of internals for this engines. I say get into them and get as much power as you can then think of what you get with all the bolt ons available...or boost even.
