I recently got my Cattman Gen II headers and Energy Suspension motor mount inserts installed by Rob (TILLEYS99). Jason (Cutler) and I were both there to assist him and I just thought I’d let y’all know what we went through and some other thoughts.

Btw, shameless plug for Rob: you learn a lot from him, he does great work and at reasonable prices, so if any of ya need his help, definitely hit him up.

Website is www.elevatedbodyworks.com


When I received the headers, everything looked good and here are some things noteworthy:
1. The manifold flanges were thick, collector tubes looked to be of good quality stainless steel, welds looked great, nice bends, everything. There were some slight burn marks from the welding and discolorations, but I didn’t really care for that too much.
2. Y-pipe + flex section were pretty much perfect and in great shape too.
3. All the necessary hardware inc. copper gaskets was included.

Picture of the headers out of the box:




The installation went fairly well, flanges lined up perfectly, holes were all the correct size, hardware was sufficient (although I do wonder how long those copper gaskets will last), and everything bolted together, on the car, almost perfectly. Almost perfectly because the rear manifold wouldn't fit as it was right up against the rear motor mount bracket. Rob took the bracket off and put it to the grinder to take off about 1/4" to make the manifold fit. It fits now, but there is a metallic buzzing/vibration coming from that that vicinity at < 2600 rpms, and I have verified that the rear manifold is still touching the motor mount bracket, causing the vibration.

Total install time for both headers and motor mounts was 6 hours including lunch at Arby's and a couple other stops.

Front header:



Rear header:



Rear header in contact with rear motor mount bracket:



Brian Catts is aware of this and so are his current fabricators. He has informed me that it was “the result of not mounting a specific tubing section in the manufacturing fixture properly (and not building the fixture properly so that this is impossible)” and that no one else has had this issue thus far and no one should going forward. Seems they only made this error on my set, I know, lucky me.

 

We had to extend both primary O2 sensors in order to get them to reach the bungs, but I think I understand the reason for the design. Many on the .Org think that this is a design flaw and not an advantage. My understanding is that the primaries need to be reading the exhaust flow down where the three collectors meet and not just on one collector up top, so this is in fact, the correct design.

Anyways, the front primary O2 was just extended by re-routing the wiring from the “main” harness. We just cut back the black tape and took a more direct route, which moved the connector further down, enough to reach the bung, and ziptied the connector safely away from the headers. From the diagram below, you can see how we did this, and that my secondaries are still unplugged and in my trunk somewhere.



For the rear primary O2 sensor, I extended the harness further down towards the bung by cutting before the harness and soldering in more wire there. The harness is about halfway down the firewall and ziptied somewhere safe. Didn't take pics of that though.


Just a nice picture of the y-pipe from under the car:

 

Two possible issues

One thing that we noticed was that the y-pipe comes very close to the drain plug and a water line adjacent to it. I’ve yet to do an oil change, but I think the initial stream of oil will hit the y-pipe slightly.



Also, for those of you who want a BlehmCo LTB, whether its Stage I or II, you probably won’t be able to get it to fit under the y-pipe because of how close the bend in the pipe is to the bolt on the lower control arm. See the pictures below.

Picture of Josh’s (Irish44J) LTB:



Picture of mine showing connection point for LTB:



Seems like a no-go, but I haven’t tried it myself to know for sure.

 

Initial thoughts after driving it:

What do you think?

Butt dyno seems to report that there are some nice gains and it definitely pulls harder in every gear, but I won't say anything on this until I get on a real dyno. Sound wise, it sounds really good coupled with the Frankencar b-pipe and Cattman rear, but it is LOUD. It’s easily more than 10 times louder than it was before headers.

Cutler and I got some test runs in on “Burnout Road”, as Rob and the locals call it, so maybe he will chime in sometime too.

 

nice pictures...i really wanna see ya dyno pupppet...when are u installing the VAFCII?

also...i want to let the folks know...if you add headers to your maxima, and you have a straight thru muffler...it WILL BE LOUD....anybody who thinks it isn't loud...well your ear drums are degrading from heavy noise polution then

 

That's awesome Puppet. I will be getting headers this spring. How long did you have to wait for yours?

 

As soon as I find more time to do the wiring and a place close by to dyno and tune... the AFC unit been sitting in my drawer for about 3 months now.

 

About a month. But you should talk to Brian directly to see if things change as far as order time goes.

 

Am I the only one who can't see the pictures?

 

Puppetmaster....Awesome writeup and pics as usual

You gotta make some type of a video or at least a sound clip altho a video is always better

I think the .org needs more videos in general of everthing altho I understand they take up lots of people's time to upload etc. and space on the website

 

Is anyone else having trouble seeing the pics? They come up fine for me, even after clearing my cache.

 

Thanks... I'll see if I can find some time and a camera to get a vid together... outside the car, inside, etc....

 

Very nice write up and pics!

 

I couldn't see them last night but now i can. Looks good very nice pics and write up.

 

So will the next bathc of Cattman headers have the fitment issues fixed? Or is Hotshot an easier solution?

 

Talk to Brian for more info.

 

Pics hardly ever work on this site for me when I'm at work. I was able to see Irish's pic though. But, it was from cardomain whereas yours are from photobucket. Maybe my work just blocks photobucket's site?

 

Looks good. What did you do with your secondaries? I had my HotShots put on last night and I am not happy with the job as they did not follow my instructions and welded them into the headers. I won't get into detail of why I'm upset because I don’t want to mess up your thread. Just curious as to if I should leave them where they are and get a SIM.

Or try this other method I keep hearing about where you place the sensors slightly in the piping so that it does not get all the exhaust gases that pass through and still tricks the sensors that everything is fine. Does that sound like something you heard of as an alternative to the SIM? Anyway just wondering what you did.

 

Very loud especially on the highway.

 

I just remembered what I was referring to above. It is called an Anti-fowler.

 

What exactly do you mean by "welded them into the headers"? Are you saying that you have all 4 O2s in the headers? Don't worry about the thread, if you have a header install related question, its relevant.

I'm still waiting for my O2 sim to arrive in the mail, but once I get it, it will be soldered in before the harnesses, the secondaries will be reconnected, and I'll tie em up under my engine cover somewhere. I'll post pics when its done.

 

Never heard of it, the O2 sim still sounds like a better route.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. That is what the installer told me. This morning though I looked at the headers up front and only noticed one sensor. Maybe he put them in the y-pipe . I am not sure anymore. I trying to get a hold of him to ask him. REALLY PISSED OFF right now.

 

About how much do headers generally cost to install? Seems like A LOT of work. Im really interested in getting either HotShot or Cattman Headers.

 

depends on where you go $300 to $700 from my experience.

 

So you haven't actually looked under the car yet? Do you have a CEL? If you don't have a CEL, then I guess it doesn't really matter since ECU seems to be happy with the signal from the secondaries.

 

The installer did not clearly explain. He said they were in the headers. When I looked at the front manifold today I did not see the Secondary only the Primary. So I called them and they said they put them in to the downpipe in the same location as the stock y-pipe. One in the front bank and one in the back. In terms of the CEL it usually does not come on right away. But it will eventually come.

 

My CEL came on within 20 mins of driving, but my secondaries are completely disconnected.

If your CEL doesn't come on, then they might have done something right, but if I were you I'd still get under there to see for yourself. It sounds like they welded em onto the y-pipe, but it doesn't make sense to do that because the secondaries are for monitoring the pre-cats and if you have no pre-cats, it is pointless having them there because they will probably still throw a CEL at some point. That's why people put em after the main cat or use a sim.

 

You can still simulate them and it is better for you that they did that for a visual inspection. I would not be to pissed.

You can hide the sim and have it look like all four are installed and no CEL.

 

That is probably why you SEL came on. My sensors are still on and my SEL will eventually go on.

That is precisely why I am upset they were given verbal and visual instructions and disregarded them. I am now trying to figure out what I am going to do. If I go with a SIM or extend them to the b-pipe I need to take them out and close the 2 holes they made. Or go with this new Anti-Fowler method and leave them where they are.

 

So your saying you can still hook up the SIM where the sensors are now. They don’t have top be moved under the hood or something?

 

Correct, the SIM is hooked up BEFORE the harness in the front of the engine bay. So they can stay right where they are and have the SIM hooked up and hidden away.

Edit: No one has them installed on the y-pipe becasue they dont want to pay for it to be done when they are just going to be simulated. But if they are already there... Just leave them and throw a SIM on it. No harm, no foul.

 

And upstatemax made a good point earlier about the set-up looking legit with the secondaries plugged into the y-pipe. Just leave things as they are and get a sim.

 

Thanks for your input I am weighing my options right now.

 

This is what I would do:

I would call the shop and ask them how much you had to pay to have the two secondary O2's hooked up to the Y-Pipe and ask for that in a refund since you TOLD them not to do anything with them. What you get in a refund, use that for the SIM...

 

It's funny you mention prices. Originally the guy quoted me a price between $200-$250. When I was ready to pay he gave me a bill of $465. Said it took him longer then expected. I paid him $300 and am still trying to figure things out.

 

Either way, ain't nobody welding any bungs into this pretty y-pipe y0...

 

Mine is more shinny and I can still change my oil

 

on the Sim, when I first removed my precats on my 240, it took about 6 months before the CEL came on... thousands of miles before it threw a code. once it did, it came back on within a day or two of me resetting the ECU and killing it. sometimes within minutes.

the Sim will keep the CEL from coming back on, but will not let the ECU go back into "ready mode". the cat and the rear O2 sensor keep showing up as 'not tested' or something like that, preventing it from going into ready mode.

Thus, if you want to be able to pass inspection with this thing on here, what you'll need to do is relocate the rear O2 sensors behind your main cat (if you have one), or install a Sim BEFORE the CEL comes on... and if you ever reset your ECU witht he Sim hooked up, it's going to go back into not-ready mode and won't come on again until you install the stock precats and hook it back up like it's supposed to.

that's my findings so far with the Sim units.. they work close enough to make the ECU think the sensor is there, but it doesn't completely solve the problem...


as for the LTB, that pic does look pretty close to the control arm. I'm still needing someone with the headers to test-fit one of my bars on their car with the headers installed, and I'll be glad to knock a few bucks off the price for their efforts- as well as provide 100% refund if it doesn't fit.

 

There is nothing stored in my ECU from the secondary o2's.