Well! This forum has been nothing short of AWESOME. I'm glad to see Josh's perseverance has finally paid off - I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of these thread!

Ok, so maybe I can FINALLY get an answer to this question.

If COMFORT was the only goal for a Maxima suspension, what springs/struts/other would be the best purchase?

I am going to be changing out my suspension this summer, and would like to know what everyone here thinks would be the best items to purchase so I have nothing short of the most comfortable ride possible.

 

I would assume stock spings, with an adjustable shock... like illuminas.

 

Struts:
Koni Inserts
Tokico Illuminas

Springs:
H&R

Frame Stiffening:
SFC
Chassis Foam

Why stiffen the frame you might ask.... Stiffer the frame, the more work the suspension will do w/o giving the interior cabin the bumps and noises.

Alternate:
Coilovers with soft spring rate. Ksports.

 

* chassis stiffening: FSTB, stage II LTB, SFC (if you can get them) chassis foam (if you don't mind a whole bunch of drawbacks it has.)

* illuminas set to 1 (This is only from the research as I don't have any personal experience with illuminas)

* get new RUBBER busings, bumpstops, shock mounts and engine mounts.

* keep your stock springs

* I would also cut the bumpstop, because, IMO, our suspension travel is limited even at stock ride height.

Edit: forgot to mention that decreasing unsprung weight will result in a better ride as well. So lighter wheels and tires will also help.

 

What are these Koni Inserts you speak of?

Moreso than stock?

Has anyone done this and truly noted a difference?

 

D2's because you can get the best of both worlds... if you know what you're doing. Set the ride height to front 1/2" higher than the rear. Once installed, add 1/2" pre-tension to the rear springs. After that, tighten down the rear struts fully and dampen the fronts 1/3 or 2/3 turn from full stiff. That gives a nearly 100% stock feeling at any ride height. Also eliminates the roll, wheel-hop and all the other bad things. Basically, my car has a 1-1/2" drop now, handles like it should, doesn't creak and moan around corners or over bumps, and rides like it just rolled off the dealer's lot. Expensive, but worth it.

 

I might be seriously looking into the Stage II LTB
I am def. going with these.

Rubber bushings for what?

They still good after 70k miles?


THANKS FOR THE INFO, FELLAS! keep it comin'!

 

Springs are good for a LONG time. I thought you wanted the car to look good too(slight drop with H&R).
Koni doesn't make stuts specificly for our car you you buy the inserts and use the Maxima "housing"(the part that goes on hub). Rears fit fine.

 

Eibach or H&R springs - reason being that only these 2 lowering springs (IMO) drop the car sufficiently to allow adequate suspension travel. The lowering springs from other companies just slam the car with no other thought in mind

Struts - any adjustable ones like the AGX's to offer a degree of adjustability given people's differing levels of comfort.

The stock ride is not comfortable to me, it is bouncy and floaty (very unsafe and hence NOT comfortable).

Another issue is your tire sizes. The smaller sidewalls on a 40 or 35 series tire on 18, 19 inch rims will affect your comfort level. Its hard to beat the nice rubber cushion you get with 16's and 17's.

 

First, in the abstract, here are your goals:

1. Stiff chassis, so that bumps don't get communicated to your seat as much
2. Low unsprung weight to minimize inertia in the suspension and help it do its job
3. Springs that are as soft as possible without letting your car roll and pitch like a boat
4. Shocks/struts that keep everything in check without making the ride harder

As a bonus, hitting all those goals will definitely improve your car's grip and response anyway, so you can easily afford to make handling a distantly secondary goal.

So, right off the bat, you'll want every last bit of chassis stiffening you can find, along with the lightest wheels (15s are a must) and good tires you can afford.

Coilovers would be great in theory, but getting them to "ride like stock" would be really, really difficult. Coilover kits for our cars come with springs that are two to five times stiffer than stock. No matter what ANYONE says, it is IMPOSSIBLE for springs that stiff to give you a ride that's near stock. Whether it's close enough or worth the increased control of body movement is a subjective matter, but if you're focusing on comfort at all costs, you need better compliance than those stiff springs will ever be able to provide. Of course, softer springs are available with coilover kits. The manufacturers will even re-valve the shocks in the kit to match the lower rates. The problem then becomes that most of them are made to accommodate a large drop, which means they have shortened shock bodies, which means they have less shock piston travel. If you pair those with soft springs, you might bottom out a lot more, which would stress the other components in the suspension and possibly blow out the shocks. If you're going for spring rates less than twice the stock front rates and 1.5 times the stock rear rates, you'll need to find coilovers with stock piston travel. That probably means you'd be looking at a custom set. Possible? Definitely. Worth the effort? Maybe not.

About shocks: Koni Yellows are generally considered the best shocks you can get. They're referred to as "inserts" because installing them involves disassembling your stock shocks and re-welding some of the external parts onto the Konis. For this application, it might be better to go with Koni Reds, but I'm not sure if they make Reds for our cars. If not, and if you have the extra cash and can spend the extra effort on the install, Koni Yellows will be excellent. Otherwise, Tokico Illuminas would do fine.


If it were me, here's what I'd do:

- Stock SE springs
- Tokico Illumina shocks/struts
- Full subframe connectors w/ X-bracing
- BlehmCo Stage-2 lower tie bar
- Otto Racing front strut tower brace
- Generic rear shock tower brace
- 15" Motegi TrakLite wheels
- 205/65/15 Falken Ziex ZE-512 tires

Every time I post in a thread like this, I say something similar... but I still would love to ride in a Max that was done up like this.

 

Done. Have them already.

I'll have 'em next month along with new mounts and dustboots.

Where can I get this? I was left under the impression no one made this.

I'll be emailing him pretty soon about this.

Where can I get this? The only place I could find was procarparts.com, and they state it's out of stock.

JDM is mAd tYtE, y000!!!!

I am running the 17" stockers on Bridgestone Turanza LS-Vs...FTMFW!!!

Guidance like this may finally result in someone ACTUALLY running this...

 

All FSTB are the same.

 

So all FSTBs and RSBs are the same?

 

No just FSTB's. Some RSB's are different. All RSTB's should be the same too, but since we have the rear beam; a RSTB won't help too much at all.

I like Progress RSB's

 

It's a pain to do but chassis foam helps out alot. People who have been in my car before now say it's much more refined and has a better ride. Even though I have the full 4th gen ES bushing catalog installed, filled the side mounts with 94a urethane, and have my AGXs set at maximum, it rides better than it did last year.

Also as an added plus it's reduces road noise and makes the interior quieter.

 

Have any pics of the install?

 

Just pics of the finished results, you can't see the foam as I sanded it and painted over everything.

Also It would require stripping the interior out to bare metal and if you want to go the extra distance removing stuff in the engine bay and trunk to foam the beams there.

Im doing the interior and rear section eventially, but im thinking of welding some reinforcements in those areas so I can't foam before hand.

 

Dear God, I'll pass. Been there once, I need to remove the dash once again, and I'm not looking forward to it.

 

Old worn bushings result in a poor ride qulality (don't ask me why... I'd appreciate if someone could chime in here ) stiff urethane bushing transfer much more road noise inside the car. Thus, the best thing you can do is get new OEM rubber bushings.


ya... well, most likely. Springs last for a very long time before they start sagging. If your Maxima does not look lower than other non-lowered maximas your springs are still fine.

here's good info about FSTBs:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=429840 (especially post # 18)

Two most popular RSBs for our cars are Progress (Cattman) & Stillen. Progress bar is mounted through the bushings, while Stillen bar is bolted directly to the trailing arms. Stillen is also slightly stiffer.

Edit: just noticed that you can't find OTTO FSTB. Try sportcompactonly.com, that's where I got mine. They are also sold on ebay.

 

Stock springs
Illuminas
Cut bumpstops
Front and rear strut bars
SFCs
Lightweight 17in rims with a stock profile tire (no low profiles or stiff sidewalls)
Chassis foam would make a big difference (I rode in Joes car and was impressed.)

I think even the most ornary grannies would think your car rode like a dream after these mods.

 

get the one from paradox-systems, its adjustable. i love it, not only it big and shiney like me but functions pretty well.

 

Just to clarify, in case some terms are getting muddled:

FSTB = Front Strut Tower Bar/Brace
RSTB = Rear Shock Tower Bar/Brace
RSB = Rear Sway Bar

The strut/shock tower bars are structural reinforcements, so you definitely want those. A RSTB won't do nearly as much as a FSTB because the rear shock towers don't see nearly as much mechanical stress as the front strut towers, but it's a very cheap item so you might as well grab one.

All FSTBs are NOT the same. Many people don't notice the difference, either because their suspension and driving habits don't stress the frame very much, or because they're just not very picky. But there are very clear differences among FSTBs: the ones that are built tougher WILL do a better job. The stiffer the suspension and/or the pickier you are, the more likely you are to notice the difference. Not that you have to run out and buy the most expensive one, of course... Just get a good one, and not a $25 eBay POS.

A rear sway bar is not structural reinforcement. Its purpose is to improve handling by sharpening steering response and reducing understeer and body roll. It's not an item that enhances comfort at all: Bumps that both rear wheels hit at the same time will feel the same, and bumps that you only hit with one rear wheel at a time will be harsher.


A few minor points in response to other posters:

Worn rubber suspension bushings will permit free play in suspension parts, which is bad for steering and stability (both in a corner and in a straight line). Also, if they're really badly worn, they won't cushion metal-to-metal contact very much. That's why you want new bushings. You want rubber ones because the alternative, polyurethane, will communicate more vibration and noise from the engine and suspension to the cabin. If you have a manual transmission, polyurethane motor mount, subframe, and shifter bushings would greatly improve your shifting, but again at the cost of slightly increased vibration and noise in the cabin.

Shorter bumpstops are a good idea. They will give you slightly more suspension travel so you have a lower chance of bottoming out when you hit a really hard bump. If you want a set, get the KYB dust boots because those have shorter bumpstops integrated.

If you're going for comfort, ALWAYS go with the smallest possible rim size. That will maximize your sidewall size and keep unsprung weight to a minimum. You'd be hard pressed to find a 17" rim that will be as light as a 15" rim, and you'd be very broke after paying for it.

That heavy-duty FSTB from Paradox Systems is good. It's a sturdy design. Just remember that you would have to remove it to adjust your struts. I'm not really sure whether that would be a problem, since you'd probably just leave them on full-soft anyway... Just mentioning, in case it matters.

 

Metal, I told you to get SFCs a long time ago. They make a tremendous difference in ride quality and of course handling. They will prevent the clunking and rattling noises that are bound to happen when the whole car flexes over bumps; no matter how many thousand pounds of sound deadening material you have.

Also, forget about chassis foaming the front end, but do foam the main frame rails/rocker panels. The only thing you need to remove are the plastic door sills. The foam isn't too expensive and is quick to apply. Haven't done it myself yet and it's supposed to be messy stuff, but well worth it. Think of a bell or long metal tub struck with a hard object. Makes a loud resonant noise. Now fill it with structural foam. Very little sound transmission remains. Chassis foam seriously reduces road noise in the cabin.

 

Dan...you can have my FSTB. I'm selling it.

edit: It's an OTTO.

 

requesting more information on this, please.

 

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=477927

 

all FSTB's ARE the same.
what are the clear differences and how do they do a better job?

 

The Alutec (for the 4th gen), Otto, and Stillen bars are broader and/or thicker and have sturdier joints than the cheapo generic ones.

 

I strongly suspect that a one-piece/non-hinged FSTB would be much better than the standard ones with a bar, two hinges, and two brackets. I think all that play makes them much less effective. I don't think anyone makes such a design so it would have to be custom. If someone wanted to design and mass produce one they could probably sell a lot of them on the Org.

 

You're definitely right. Like this shining example, which my brother has on his Integra. It's triangulated, it's non-hinged, it's built very solidly and finished nicely, the fitment is perfect, and it permits access to adjustable dampers if you have them. Awesome piece.

One thing to remember, though, is that while there are tons of Honda/Acura guys who are serious about the parts they put on their cars, in this community you'd have a hard time outrunning the "all FSTBs do the same thing, why pay so much more for a stupid strut bar" school of thought. It doesn't help the case that such a bar would cost a LOT more than what anyone is used to paying -- it would take a lot of time and money to develop since fitment would have to be PERFECT.

But yeah, I agree 100%. I'd buy a better FSTB in a heartbeat. This frame needs all the help it can get.

 

Yah, awesome aftermarket parts like that make me wish I had a *gasp* Honda.

 

I've had the following setups on my two maxes:
Eibach/AGX- RSB, RSTB, FSTB
H&R/AGX front, Illumina rear-RSB FSTB
Sprint/Koni Yellows- RSB
Tokico/AGX- RSB, RSTB, FSTB
D2's- RSTB, FSTB, Stage II LTB. (Current setup)

I've got A full ES bushing kit i'm waiting to put on my current setup.

Out of all of them, it's hard to say which one I liked the most in terms of comfort.
I think the best feeling one, that gave me a smooth ride that felt like a new car was the eibachs.

But after being on my current setup, I'll never go back to anything else.

If setup right, the D2's ride REALLY smooth, and the LTB and stuff make things so much better.

Everytime I let someone drive my car, it always surprises them how it handles... They can never get it to break lose.

I think for what you want, you're going with a good choice.... But I wouldn't use stock springs....
They float/bounce too much.... I would definitely go with H&R's or something similar to them. NCSU_MAX had those on his with illuminas, and the car road SO smooth, but still handled MUCH better than stock.

 

you actually let others try out the limits of your car??

 

Well the people that drive it have cars that are alot faster/better than mine...
And only my close friends... hahaha

 

Hello, New here and have been reading all day. I just bought what I have just learned is a loaded 5th gen GLE (2000). I have noticed that the ride is rather "wobbly". After reading over a lot of the "possible" modification ideas. I still have the same question. I'm not looking for increased racetrack, autocross, etc performance. Just looking at getting rid of the very dangerous (personal feeling) rear swaying that the vehicle has when hitting a bump while driving on the highway. It just feels like the rear end is going to break loose and send the car into a spin.
Do I really have to put on on a front strutbar, change out the shox/struts, and add the under chassis frame that i saw in a different post to fix this?
This is my wife's daily driver, I just want to make it so that it does not make my wife freak out while driving on the highway. Thanks for any clarifications anyone may be able to give.

 

I don't think I understand what you are describing. Are you saying that your car starts bouncing up and down if you hit a bump? If so, your shocks are probably blow. Try compressing the springs by pushing on each corner with you hands. If the car will start bouncing when you release it than you need to get new shocks.

 

don't believe the car has blown struts/shocks, none are leaking and the do not clank or rattle when going over potholes or bumps on the road. when the rear of the vehicle is pressed down it does sink quite easily and it has a slight bounce when it comes back up, but not as bad as i have noticed in my previous cars when the shocks were blown.
the suspension does feel really soft however (which from what I have read seems to be normal). the problem I'm describing is that at high speed (highway) when the rear of the car goes over a bump it feels as if the rear pulls to the right. it feels as if the the shell of the car is on springs and it gets pulled to the right(from the rear) and then back to the center. Really makes you feel like the car will get out of control.

Does that make any more sense? I'm having the car inspeced but was looking to see if anyone had any ideas/answers.

 

GLE = soft and floaty. REALLY soft and floaty. Basically made to be driven by very old people.

Don't worry, you're not going to lose the rear end or anything. These are very safe-handling cars, whether they feel like it or not.

If you want to improve things, though, the cheapest way would probably be to swap in KYB GR-2 shocks and OEM 5th gen SE springs. That would make a HUGE difference.

If you want to do better than that, don't waste your time on anything less than H&R springs with Tokico Illumina shocks. I've heard that on a 5th gen, that combo rides better than stock in virtually every way.

 

yeah it does float.. A LOT(think of laying on the ocean and following the undulations of the waves lol). I hope you are right, and there is nothing broken with the rear suspension(if that sway to the right is normal it will definelty take some getting use to). We shall see what the Dealer says tomorrow.
If it indeed is normal I think a suspension upgrade is in need. Thanks for your help.

 

Welcome to the Org. Despite what you say, it still sounds like bad struts to me. Or perhaps your rear beam is messed up, or your frame is bent, or some of the rubber bushings in the rear suspension are shot. Hop in the Madison thread; maybe one of us could take a look at it. Or just take it to a shop/stealership and they'll probably figure it out.