Some of you guys know about my hybrid 3.5L swap project. I've done pretty much everything there is to do on a N/A motor.

The Scenario:
I just got the 00VI Kit and installed that puppy. It's actually Stephen Max's 00vi kit with 4th gen LIM and a Pathy Throttle Body (all port-matched and polished).

The wrong thing I did:
I installed the LIM the traditional way (with the two knock sensor grounding holes facing the front of the car). But I found out afterwards, that Stephen Max made it to turn around and have those holes facing the inside. It turns out that I was still able to install it without a problem, just missing 2 #8 bolts on the sides. No vacuum leaks detected.

The install:
The install was a breeze, took me only an hour to remove my mevi and an hour to install the 00VI. IACV even worked perfectly, idles normally, and no CEL's.

The Drive:
I took the car out for a few pulls, it felt like it's got some pull there, but it's got a flow resitrictive "feel", maybe just something in my head, but it's there. For a moment, I thought MEVI pulls harder on top end (my mevi is seriously bored out by me: all six runner exits and the throttle section).

The problem:
Anyways, the install yield no problems initially with the stock ecu, a few pulls to fuel cut gave no indications of any problems. At this time, EU wasn't even at bay. I plugged in the JWT ECU and took it to 7200 rpms 3 times. It feels like the rev goes up to about 6800 rpms and dies out slowly to get to 7200 rpms. And when I came back to my lot, where I can hear things, I hear a series of very loud metal clattering noise from the bay area. Thought it was my timing chain, but this noise is in addition to the existing normal timing chain clattering. This is a more organized metal tapping noise. It is especially noticeable when I drive it in 1st gear, anywhere below 4k rpms, it taps really hard, and after 4k, it's blended off quickly, almost can't hear it anymore. On other gears, I can only hear this from 3k-4k rpms, and afterwards, it's blended off. It even feels like I can cap that noise away by giving it gas after 4k rpms.

Aftermath:
The car drives normal with this problem, no sputtering at all. But it does feel a lot weaker than before, it's just not pulling that hard anymore. No CEL's tripped either.

Reponsive Action:
I then took the 00vi off, swapped the LIM to the correct side that Stephen Max made it to run with, because I only realized this LIM direction was wrong at this point. Anywho, checked the sparkplugs, and number 3 and 5 tubes are flooded with oil. I am more than sure that those exhaust valves are heavily damaged and they are spewing combustion leaks through these valve seats and forced oil through the tube seals. Seems like there's nothing I can do now. But I drove the car a couple more times, no problem except the same valve taps. I am back at work now, but I will find time tomorrow to run some compression tests on all cylinders.

Situation:
From June 04 to today, I have spent more than $25,000 on this car. I have finally settled many of my debts owed on upgrading this car so much. Still got about 3k to pay on the cards. I know valve damage involves taking off the motor and basically rebuild the whole thing with new valves. Is it worth the money? I really think not at this point. I think I'm going to sit this car down on the lot and wait till I have the money and free time to really work on it myself (years later). Or else, paying a mechanic is going to ruin my life as it already is ruined. I think I'm giving up. What do you guys think about this?

-Peter-

 

Hate to say it but if your valves floated at 7200 rpm then you didn't do all you could in the valvetrain department on this N/A build up...

IIRC you used the JWT valvesprings?

 

Here's my setup:

Engine:
ARP Rod Bolts
ARP Crank Case Bolts
3.5 Maxima Block/rehoned cylinders
3.5 Maxima Crank
3.5 Maxima Rods
3.5 Pathfinder Flat-Top Pistons w/new rings
3.5 Pathfinder Heads w/lapped valves
3.5 JWT Valve Springs
3.0 JWT S1 Camshafts
3.0 Maxima Valvecovers
3.0 Maxima Timing+Pulley Assembly
3.0 Maxima Oilpan
3.0 Maxima Fuel System (return type fuel lines and sidefeed injectors)
3.0 EVAP Emissions Equipment

Mods:
CATTMAN Full Exhaust: from Headers all the way to Muffler.
Emanage Ultimate (currently down)
PLX M-300 Wideband Oxygen Sensor
Walbro 250lph Fuel Pump
Popcharger Intake
00VI (Port-polished to match LIM and Pathy TB)
Pathfinder Throttle Body
Blemhco Ground Kit
Fidanza Flywheels
2001 AE Clutch (part#'s ending: 2Y920)


I thought I should be the last person to worry about valve float...

 

Could it have been something to do with the Pathfinder Valvetrain?

 

What year Pathy heads? 2001 Pathfinder heads to my knowledge have the heaviest valvetrain of any VQ series engine that I have seen. They have the VQ30s bucket and shim design with the bigger VQ35 intake valve. I got a 2001 Pathy dis-assembled in the garage so I have some hands on experience with them.

Then couple that with upgraded JWT cams. I've heard of the 350Z guys having float problems with the NISMO valvesprings and NISMO camshafts. I think the JWT stuff is NISMO or vice versa so im not surprised. sorry man...

 

I have no reason to doubt that it's the Pathy valvetrain at all. I compared the size of the valves between the pathy and my 3.0 heads, pathy valves are bigger by inspection. And the valves do clear before the pistons. The only way this valve float is troubling is because the JWT cams lift at 10.2mm versus the 3.5 cam lifts of 9.5mm is causing a major valve travel to bang on the flat-top pistons. But with these jwt valvesprings, it shouldn't even matter, unless Jwt valvesprings are really that s*itty.

These are 2002 Pathy head valves, I believe.

If I still have money to spend, there's no doubt that I would already invested in VK45 Ti-Valves. But as I stated in my situation, I really cannot do anything else now.

-Peter-

 

I've been mentioning the Supertech and Ferrara double spring valvetrain for a while now. Today I finally decided to put my money where my mouth is and bought a set of Supertech VQ35 valve springs, Ti retainers, and seats. The price went up a few hundred from demand, but I managed to find a seller on Ebay offering them at the normal price. I also might have a set of VK45 Ti valves on tap as well. Hopefully this summer I will have it all together and see how it runs.

 

Do a compression test. That will tell you if you bent/damaged a valve.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but all that work and money for the hybrid engine setup, and I bet it makes no more power than a VQ35 swap with cams. If it turns out that your engine is bad, I would just find a junkyard VQ35, put the cams in and be done with it.

 

The main reason I went with hybrid setup is to keep my EVAP, EGR, Fuel, 00VI, and Ignitions.

I would do a traditional VQ35 swap if I wouldn't have to convert fuel setup, and deal with possible CEL's all year long, especially when it comes to inspections.

 

how much money are you saying you dont have? because for like $500 you can have a 3.5 and add some mild mods..cams and w/e u think wont bust this one just to have a running car for a while? but then you think after 26g's all I have is a 3.5...I know its a lot of money but im with 96sleeper, the 3.5 isnt going to be that much slower. Just dont rape it, lol

 

He's **** about having CEL's on...which is why he didn't go with the traditional swap in the first place.

Peter if I were you I would just get another 3.0 and leave it stock...at least then you would have a car.

 

yeah but then he has a 26 thousand dollar stock 3.0 maxima...a 95 at that.
stock is a relative term here because yes he has lots of mods

 

at least it would be a $26k maxima that ran

And by stock i mean internally. Exhaust/00vi is fine.

 

for one evap is a external thing i can put the evap on any engine ever made and it will be fine ,same with EGR . if you put LS1 in there i could rig those up in minutes .

my fuel setup is pretty simple really like my 3.0 was with dek IM and ignitions i dont know what you mean by that?

and i must say you have a 95 ecu? is your evap canister in the rear by the trunk or in your engine bay? if you say engine bay than this means you have a early 95 ecu that doesnt care at all about the EVAP . i have one of these ECU's on my 96 and i ripped 100% of the EVAP off no cels not one.

MY EGR is gone to and i do have a resister (added by 98seblackmax )i get no cels from the EGR either. ive also torn the MAP junk out .my 96 has no cels from that either because 95 ecu doesnt have it.


What iam saying is the max with a early 95 ecu is pretty much code free .and where i live my car gets hooked to the DMV main frame and i pass with 0 codes and 0 readyness codes

 

yeah but he has another car to drive so have a 26k $ max with a stock 3.0 in it for him prolly going to do much for his liking...

 

Well it's totally up to him, and the car he's driving right now is his girlfriend's

I'll be optimistic and say it might not even be that serious...hopefully a compression test will be performed soon so that he can verify any major problem...

 

I agree for now, if he needs the car just to go 3.0, nice/easy and reliable for a while. but if he feels anything like I did after a couple motor swaps and still having problems, he doesnt want to do anything else to that car. I was mad at mine for a while! lol

 

There is no problem with revving a stock 3.5 with just ARP rod bolts and cams to 7200. Maybe bring it down to 7000 for peace of mind. To be perfectly honest with you if I were in your situation I would just do a DIY stock junkyard VQ35 with the cams and ARP rod bolts and sell your left over stuff. I know it sucks, but its the only way to solve this situation without dumping more than 600-700 at it.

Do yourself a favor and do this now or you will regret it forever. Remember 96Sleeper made a whopping 273FWHP with the stock 2k2 intake manifold and JWT knockoff cams. You have ARP rod bolts for safety on top of that. Theres no other painless solution. If you get a 3.0 you will kick yourself forever for it. Dont go backwards. A stock 3.5 with cams will be just as good as your current setup.

That is seriously what I would do if I were in your situation. And dont think about the money. Its done. Its gone. I would be flat out pissed too, but dont think about the money aspect. Just make sure you can enjoy your car ASAP.

 

Does anyone have a picture of a Pathfinder piston? He listed is as "3.5 Pathfinder Flat-Top Pistons". If they are indeed 'flat top' I would call that a problem. All other VQ35s have valve reliefs. It would be unwise to put flat top pistons in with high lift cams if you didn't pre-assemble the engine and check the valve clearances with putty.

 

is the 00vi better then the 3.5 manifold on a 3.5 engine???

 

Theres no real way to know that since both intake manifolds bolt to different heads and we havent had a dyno of such a setup with a 3.5+00VI yet.

 

Look at a 3.5 IM next to a MEVI or 00VI, the runner size difference is unreal. I would think the smaller manifolds would be choking for air at higher rpm.

 

Appreciate all of your valuable inputs. I just called Nick again at the shop, home boy told me to drop the car off, and don't worry about the rest.

It's a 15 minute drive on the interstates and 5 minutes in the streets. The car revved fine still with that clattering noise on the interstates, still pulls very strong, but feels like it's missing a cylinder power to push it somehow. When I got to the exit and slow down, it died on me. Several cranks wouldn't turn the motor over. So I waited a while with flashing signals, then cranked it with open throttle and got it to run again. finally got to the shop without choking the baby.

Anyways, Nick came to my car, asked me to open up the hood, revved it twice and shut it off. Told me it's not valves. Valves don't sound like that. He tells me that I've thrown a rod down there. He doesn't have extra time to look further today, but told me that he'll take off the oilpan tomorrow and see. To Nick, that clattering sound comes from the bottom block of the engine, not the heads. Without doing the compression test, he told me to save it. I'm in school right now, so I cannot really find time to work on this car.

Spig, LA02Max, and a few local guys offered to help me with this project on my parking lot, but I really dont' want to trouble too much people.

I have made my decision here. I'm ordering a low milage VQ30DE now and Nick will put it in there next week. I will just have to wait for it all.

I understand Jclaw's point of view, but I'm gonna have to pass that for now. I know I will regret and miss that torqueous ride in the 3.5, but it's all for the better that I get 3.0 right now. I will still keep this 3.5 hybrid till I settle for a better life. So I guess my quest for power ends here. Thanks, yall.

-Peter-

 

Taken from Godfather's cardomain:

 

Alright Peter, it sounds like Nick is gonna hook you up again, but if you need any help don't hesitate to ask. I think it's a wise choice right now, seeing as you just need a reliable daily driver that'll pass inspection, etc. You don't need the torque and now I'll be faster than you jk.

 

Perhaps one or two incorrectly torqued ARP rod bolts?

Hey no problem man. Keep that 3.5 on the side and when things get better you can start slowly working on it while you have your reliable 3.0 ride. The moment you start playing with boost or engine internals it gets tricky and things like that can happen...

And thanks for the help you provided on my bros car. We stopped working on it for a few weeks but it will run this spring for sure.

 

That is my thought.
Does anyone know if the pathfinder rods are different from the rest of the VQ35s? If somehow those are in his engine and no one knows the limit of those rods.

 

he stated above that he has Maxima rods.

 

Latest...

I have a spare 96 auto maxima now. I will start supercharging my project car once a vq30de gets dropped in. As for the broken 3.5 hybrid motor, within a year, I will get a stock 3.5 maxima bottom, and put my hybrid heads on it because these heads got jwt valvesprings and jwt S1 cams. And I do not feel like taking them out while they are still properly assembled. The 3.5 bottom will be untouched as far as the rod assembly is concerned. I have a feeling that I cannot suffice torq-ing these things properly myself.

By the time I can do a 3.5 bottom, that's also the time when I'm going to be getting paid a lot of money working for a drilling company. So if finance permits, I may even skip the 3.5 bottom and call AEBS up for a 4.3 stroker kit which I'll then slap my heads on that and call that a day. These pathy heads along with JWT vavletran may not be the best flower for 3.5+Liter motors, but for under 500 horses, these head+valves will do just fine. I really want a 3.5+displacement for an N/A, without having to convert all kinds of stuff for my 1995.

Basically, I just want this 95 maxima to look stock-ish under the hood, making it look untouched if possible. Then get on the streets and surprise a bunch of cokky suckers.

 

Having a sleeper is half the fun! Im even going so far as to get stock wheels enlarged to 15X8 in the rear for my S13.

Did you torque them yourself or did Stephen Max do it? What do you think went wrong?

As a cheaper, less involved alternative to the 4.3L, you can use the stock crank with 100 mm Darton sleeves (what most people trust for reliability) and get a 3.8L (3850ish cc). They sell professionally pre-sleeved blocks with the Darton sleeves for 2500+ on my350z.com.

 

I really don't know what went wrong, Stephen did the torque bolts.

This Darton sleeves would be a good idea, but I'd have to get a little more involved with it more and find out what's needed and things. Nevertheless, I will end up with a expanded displacement VQ one way or the other, that I mean, >VQ30 of course.

-Peter-

 

Daaaaamn I really dont see what could go wrong with an ARP rod bolt install. Although, in your case its a full bottom end overhaul. Maybe its the link (piston wrist pin I think) on the pistons thats the problem (slid out).

 

Very sorry to hear about this project being put on hold for now...I hope you recover, and good luck!

 

Thanks boostlogic, I'm recovering quickly as I'm very eager to slap my supercharger on the 3.0 that's about to go in. Nick is backed up with 3 motor jobs per day right now, and it doesn't seem like he'll get to mine till 3 weeks later.

Jclaw, I'm also speculating that it's a broken wrist pin. Because I could still drive the car and take it to redline, it's just missing 1 or 2 cylinders, but the car transitions smoothly across the entire rpm without a shudder or shake. I'm pretty sure a completely thrown rod will cause a sieze or a big kaboom. None of which had happend, it just makes rod noise, is all. Remember my drive to the mechanic shop for 20 minutes? I was able to take it on 4th gear to redline and keep 128mph on the interstates. Of course the car died after I slowed down, but it still didn't sieze or blow. I'm speculating a broken wrist which the piston is moving up and down freely and banging on the rod end and maybe touching and breaking the valves.

-Peter-

 

That would make a lot of sense, like the two pistons are stuck high in the block and the rest of the rotating assembly keeps going as if nothing. I dont see how the ARP rod bolt install could have gone wrong, many people have them and I have yet to hear of a thrown rod while installing just ARP rod bolts (i.e, motor still on the car, oil pan removed, rod bolt install ONLY).

That makes me feel a little better about it. It makes sense since the only thing different on your build is the pathy piston install. A stock VQ35 shortblock with just ARP rod bolts should have NO problems until 7500. The stock rods are supposed to be good to 7500 (although some have gone 7700-7800 like krismax). In fact the TS reflash for the 05-06 Revup is 7500, right? Do the revups have stronger rods?

 

Yeah, me and Nick are both pretty sure that the ARP hardwares are fine in the motor right now. It's really got to be the wrist pins because he says if I'd threw a rod completely, I won't be able to drive it like a beater like I did for a couple days after the problem. It looks like I'd need to find a regular 3.5 bottom and put these heads on and I'd have my problem free setup again. Kinda tempting, but I'm gonna wait it out for now. I'm really thinking about doing the AEBS 4.3 stroker in 2 years. Spig is also pointing out the possibility of getting a build from SGP in houston. I'm in for options, as long as it takes 2 years for me to clear my finances. Thanks for all of your interests and assistance again.

-Peter-

 

500$ for a shortblock and you're in!

 

I shoulda talked to you before I bought my vq30de motor 3 days ago. what the hck!

Well, let's talk about that short block for a little, what's in it? what milage? and can you lower it down a little bit? LOL. If it's below 400 bucks, I definitely can afford it this summer. But I still would need to open up the pathy heads and perform leak-down to make sure the heads are fine.

I'm speculating that #3 and #5 exhaust cylinders are the wrists thrown, and that the valves could have been damaged since the valvecover have spewed oil through the seal into the sparkplug tubes. this must have come from valves not closing completely and forced high pressure in the valve cover chamber.

Anyways, it's going to get interesting about getting that short block, though.

-Peter-

 

I meant you can definately find one locally for 500$.