So I finally got my SFC's put in yesterday and it was an interesting process. The directions that come with the SFC's aren't exactly the most useful

First I will start with the install. I am sure if my 4th gen had these problems others will as well. Apparently my chassis has been through hell or the bars were bent ha but I am pretty sure it wasn't the bars...

Install


First you will want line up the bars and make sure the rear is in that postion. When we did this, my front had a gap and was not flush with the factory subframe, I was like wtf! My installer didn't care he seemed pretty smart, he tacked on the rear and since it was hanging low, he used his exhaust stand to put weight on the bars so they sit flush with the subframe and then got a clamp to squeeze the front of the SFC and subframe together.


You can see the clamp in the back of that picure. After he welded that on he raise the car again to take off the pressure he had initially applied to get the bars to sit flush and finished welding that side in.

 

We worked our way to the front to finish welding


Me trying not to go blind from the welding light


Now we moved on to the drivers side. This side is easier to weld because the exhaust is not in the way. Also we removed the 2 bolts for the ebrake while doing the install so we had more clearence to weld.


Same process on this side, we had to tack on the rear and then apply weight/pressure on the front of the bar so it wasn't hanging lower than the car. Once again we did this by slowly lowering the car onto an exhaust stand.

 

Now it's time to install the x-bars. As you can kind of see, we used two clamps and clamped the middle in so we could mark our holes on where to drill.


Oh noes! Almost done!


Another angle.


Exhaust clearence, it is not as bad as it looks from this angle.

 

Now it's time to start painting. This 3M **** will get on your clothes and hands and it is not exactly easy to take off.


Try not to get it on the exhaust because as it burns off it smells pretty bad.


The parts you see with out undercoating have been fixed since I took the pics so don't worry about it.


!!!!!



Once again, since the bars didn't fit in perfectly on my car, we somewhat forced them to and did not have any problems. I am sure many older 4th gens will have to do the same.

Review

So I have a few miles on the sfc's. Easily a top 3 mod on my car. It changes the entire way the car reacts and feels. It is amazing how flimsy the chassis was.
We will start with handling.. I didn't buy these for the handling but it is a big plus. You can take turns at very high speeds with minimal body roll. You HAVE to have good tires though. These bars truly make the suspension/tires work instead of the entire body flexing. The H&R's are pretty soft so the handling can only improve with different springs. When you make sudden turns, the entire body rolls as one, it is kind of hard to describe, you have to feel it for yourself. The car feels solid in all turns.
Now on to the ride. Almost perfect for me. Over very bumpy roads all you hear is thud thud thud, you barely feel any of the bumps in the cabin. My rear suspensions squeaks so that is all I hear. Over very large bumps, some still make it to the cabin but the interior doesn't rattle as bad as it did without the bars. I don't have to be embarrassed when I have other people in the car. This is how the car should have rode from the beginning.

 

Thanks for the pics and description... I worry about my b-pipe because of how low it sits.

I think I'm going to coat/paint mine before installing though, looks kinda messy doing it after.

 

Yeah, Just dont paint the area you weld because it will catch fire when you weld.

 

Thanks for the report - good pics and descriptions!

 

good stuff.....im still not getting it till that 3.5 goes in!

 

Thanks so much Kevlo! BTW, your Max looks really hot these days. I didn't know you had Evos. They look great with the fresh paint and body kit.

Puppet, my Greddy catback sits ridiculously low, and in fact before I can install my SFCs I have to go to an exhaust shop to get them to fix it somehow. Fix it without ruining the mandrel bends. Plus it's stainless so it's hard to work with...

 

They can't redo the hangers?

bump for review

 

Damn that is sexy!

I can't wait till I get this one. Do you think it would be a good idea to use blue painters tape and tape up the whole underbody before I do the undercoating?

 

I wouldn't, it wont hurt to have extra undercoating on top of the factory undercoating

 

I doubt it. The problem is the angle of the flange connecting at the front of the catback. Also, the O2 bung is on the bottom side rather than the top! I'll have to get that fixed by the exhaust shop as well.

I bought a 95-96 SP2 because of the length (muffler tip sits perfectly at the bumper on a 97-99) and so I couldn't exactly complaint to Greddy. But it's still Greddy's fault because I believe the only difference in the exhaust between early and late 4th gens is the extra length for the 97-99 rear bumper. Who knows what their engineers were smoking when they designed it.

http://www.vquick.net/gallery/v/greddy/ See, it's bad! But I've been driving around like this, with a moderate drop, for two years and haven't scraped it or the O2 once!

 

Gotcha, yea you gotta cut the flange and reweld. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

 

come back to texas, we'll take some twisties now

 

Glad to hear others get to experience SFCs now. Enjoy em!

 

shweet shweet shweet!!!
Great thread Kevlo!
More people need to get these.....

 

Good review Kev. Thanks for taking the time to take pics and share with us! You guys are making we want these now that the reviews are coming in. I'm just having a hard time adding 50 lb to the car though. It'll hurt in drag racing (which I do), and only help when I take on-ramps like a bat out of hell. Unfortunately, there are no autocross tracks near where I live. :sad: Of course, it would be nice to stiffen up the car in the general sense.

BTW, where did you get the can of 3M undercoating stuff? Any good ol' Autozone, Napa, Pepboys??

 

Yeah I the weight isn't the upside haha but the ride quality afterwards makes it totally worth it IMO. I got the 3m coating from Advanced Auto, I am sure other places have it as well. Butt dyno didn't feel any slower so good for me . When I do the manual swap and 2peice rotors it will negate the weight the bars added for me.

 

well the braces are nice and all but....the reason iam really posting is because i cant believe how rust free your car is.

you have made up my mind ,when iam ready iam gonna buy a southern max and swap all my stuff over.

i have rust holes the size of grapefruits and every bolt and nut under the car breaks. and it really cant be fixed because the overlapping spot weld seams are rotting between them

 

hmmm, how much do these weigh anyway? anyone have an accurate weight that I missed?

 

I disagree. These will make a noticeable difference every second you're driving your car. It will feel more solid when you pull in and out of driveways, over every bump in the road, and in every turn. Furthermore, they only weigh 38.5 pounds (plus welds); that was what the FedEx invoice I got said. That's like a third of a tank of gas or a quarter of a passenger. Lastly, all the weight added is at the extreme bottom of the chassis which lowers the center of gravity of the car.

If you're that concerned about extra weight, you could do a lot of seam welding on the chassis. That should increase stiffness considerably (there is a thread about it). But that will cost you a lot more time and money and as people have noted, the frame rails are so puny that I think there's only so much seam welding can do.

 

What's this "rust" you guys are talking about?

Seam welding the chassis will be TOUGH, the rails are very thin to begin with. If you didn't want to add the weight of SFC, the next best thing(maybe better) Is chassis foam. It is very lightweight(couple of lbs max) but it isn't exactly easy to pour in.

 

You could take all that heavy, useless supercharger stuff off the car. That would save you the 40lbs, right?






btw, what do you mean there's no autocross near you? there is autocross everyplace. What city do you live in?

 

Well, I did say they would help in a general sense, which is what you are reiterating. I'm on Progress coilovers with 17" rims, and I can't complain about the ride quality. I have no qualms with what I have right now when pulling in and out of driveways, and I don't feel every bump in the road; hence why it's hard to add weight to the car when I can't imagine the car feeling significantly more "solid" as you put it. As far as the weight, I had originally asked in another thread and was told 50lbs That's good to know it's only 38.5lb in the box. It's getting easier to order these.

Now that's more up my alley! Only a few pounds and accomplishes the same thing. I need to research this more.

I knew that comment was coming. The SC and all it's components actually weight 48lbs.


I've searched and can't find squat. Only miata clubs that rent out stadium parking lots and set up cones..... I live in Temecula, CA, which is in Riverside County.

 

The roads in So Cal are much less bumpy than the roads near me, for one. Any 4th gen Max, with any suspension, is going to make noises that make you wince when you hit big bumps. I have 17" rims, BC coilovers set pretty soft, and the ride is definitely an improvement over spring/strut combos but it's far from great. I am constantly watching the road and steering around larger bumps and dips. Ride in almost any recent Japanese car and you will feel a difference. My parents' 03 Accord feels incredibly solid compared to my Max, and it's got pretty stiff springs stock. Again, the better your roads the less you may notice, but the chassis is still flexing in the turns.

Anyway, it all comes down to how much you drag your car and how happy you are with it as a daily driver. If weight trumps all then you couldn't justify SFCs or any non-power mod really.

 

Have you ever been to SoCal? The roads are horrible there..haha. I'm sure you would notice a big difference, Wizard. Try finding some way to lighten your load to compensate for these and you'll thank us later

As a side note: You can't find any auto-x events in Temecula? Number one that's kind of hard to believe, but if it is really true, why don't you just drive 20-30 miles away for one? I know Riverside has all kinds of stuff like that going on. I used to live in that area and you see a lot of modded cars that I'm sure would contribute to at least one auto-x event in the area. Try it out

 

The weight of foam is very negotiable. It all depends on how stiff you want it. Good dense foam isnt as light as the foam in a can you can buy at home depot. As well good foam is kinda spendy in itself too. I too have been looking into this option for myself along with sfcs, and maybe even filling a set of sfcs with rigid chassis foam.

 

There's a great thread on chassis foaming a 240SX here. The guy says it only took him 4 hours. He used a system with a nozzle of some sort (I'd have to read the thread again) and it looked much easier than just pouring it in by hand. The problem is that, last I checked, they only make the nozzle system in 1 or 2lbs, and I want to use 8lb foam on my chassis. I think 8lbs is a good compromise of stiffness but light weight.

LA02Max, I drove to San Diego with my brother last August and I'd have to say that the freeways and especially the city streets were considerably better than what I'm used to here. I'm sure it varies from town to town due to maintenance frequency, but they just don't have the freezing temperatures that cause cracks and potholes to expand quickly. But I agree with you, Wizard will notice a difference with SFCs!

 

Xbars gotta go. I scraped the FUCK out of them coming into my apartment complex(2 GIANT speed bumps coming in and going out so 4 total) today, I don't plan on moving for the next 3 years so I think I can live w/o the Xbars

 

Those must be wicked big speed bumps. BTW, someone should measure the ground clearance at the lowest point of the SFCs/crossbars. Or heh, I guess they'd have to measure the lowest point from the underbody or frame rails due to everyone having different suspension heights.

 

On eibachs, the middle of the SFC crossbrace checks in at about 3 1/4" off the ground. I measured. The problem is that it's right midway between the axles, so when you go over a speedbump it's sitting at its lowest point (as opposed to a LTB, which is a bit lower than the SFCs, but doesn't often scrap since it's between the front wheels).

I am working on a new crosspiece that will modify it to be about 4.5" off the ground, but it will only work on cars with the Frankencar bpipe...the Cattman and OEM ones are bigger so you really can't go much higher up.

 

I have H&R's so mine prob have the same clearance as yours Irish.

I don't think I will lose much in ride quality w/o the Xbars

 

Wow, that's really low ground clearance for the middle of the car. I didn't realize the crossbraces were that much lower than the main side rails.

 

yeah, you can thank the fact that those with stock or cattman b-pipes need more clearance....Once I finish altering it I should have about same clearance as the stock crossmember in the middle, but the FC bpipe gives way more room.

 

i am putting my SFC's on tomorrow and I want to know whether I should paint/coat mine first or wait intil they are on the car. I have not asked my welder dude, so I am looking for opinions. I know Irish painted his first but he did not respond to my PM about any problems. What experience did you other guys have? And recommendations on coating/paints?

 

You can use any rust proof stuff to paint before you weld, but I wouldn't put any underbody coating on until they are on the car



I have learned that if I do 1-2mph over the speed bumps I won't scrape

 

What i did (not to ***** up the thread) to fix the low hanging b pipe, was first of all, get a new hanger for the b pipe (rubber mount thingy) I got a big hose clamp, took off the heatshield by the gas tank (the farthest one down the exaust piping) and just clamped up the rubber hose hanger till i tucked up the b pipe to my liking...It got it to tuck up about an extra inch...wich is pretty good in my opinion....and i guess i lost a little wieght by taking off that last heat shield haha... sigh....

As for the SFC's do you have any complaints about the rigidity of the Xbrace? I know they are redesigning it...but i was curious to get your opinion on the flimsyness of the X brace itself....

 

Thanks for the idea, but I'm afraid even if I could push the B-pipe up an inch it would still be far too low for the SFCs. My buddy and I are thinking of just cutting the stock cat just in front of its rear flange and adjusting the angle that way. That way I won't have to mess with the catback and SS welding.

Still trying to figure out the best way to lift the car for the SFC install (we don't have access to a lift). Thinking just a couple of cinder blocks of height will be enough to weld since all the welding is at the edge of the car. But I'm still a bit wary of getting the car on and off of cinder blocks...any ideas?

 

Do you mean the heatshield that's around/behind the muffler? I've been contemplating trying that myself but just haven't gotten off my butt to do it.