first off, let me say that the car i'm building will be extremely low whether i find a solution or not. i understand the consequences, but the style of this build requires a low stance. in the interest of doing things correctly, and the possibility of offering a solution for others in this situation, i have decided to pursue having custom lca's made. the owner of the shop that my car is in now for body work has a racing pedigree, and i have seen many custom made control arms for full-size/mini trucks they are working on. i am confident he has the know-how to get it done, but i would like to have a clear understanding of what's going on before i present it to him.

from what i have read the best solution seems to be extending the lca's so that they remain at a decline from the mounting point.

another solution i read about was ball joint relocation. i assume this idea fizzled out because of the application, but maybe there is something there. any thoughts on redesigning the shape of the control arm to achieve this effect?

the last thing i was brainstorming was raising the inner mounting point of the lca.

keep in mind i'm no suspension guru, in fact its been a couple years since i've been under my maxima. if any of my ideas are bad, feel free to let me know. other than that, any useful information would be appreciated.

 

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balljoint relocation is probably the most cost-effective and simple solution. It should solve most of the bumpsteer issues you will have (though you will have other issues with available suspension travel, etc if you're slammed).

there was some talk of extended balljoints a while back. The idea is sound, and it is used in other applications. I think it just died here because there was a limited amount of interest and wasn't worthwhile for whoever was heading up the effort.

Here's a link to the original thread. You might want to touch baase with MaximaSE96 and see what he has to say on the issue.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....oint+extension

 

well after reading as much as i could, while i wasn't stuffing my face with turkey, i decided that ball joint relocation seemed like the best idea. i have already sent an e-mail out to the manufacturer so hopefully i'll hear something back on that.

i am also looking for solutions to the extreme angle of the axle cv joints. is there any room for modification to the design?

*edit* as far as the suspension travel issues; i will be using jic's which have a threaded body intended to retain travel at extreme drops. i will also be running the dampers extreme firm and possibly using higher rate springs because my build requires limiting suspension travel. i will definitely be sacrificing comfort, but it has to be done due to the solid rear beam design of our cars.

 

actually the solid rear beam is pretty good for extreme drops, because you can drop as low as you want without any massive negative camber issues that you would have with an IRS setup slammed low in the back.....it has its drawbacks, but ride quality with beam axle is good for cruising, just not great for extremely bumpy roads.

 

negative camber allows a flush wheel to fold into the wheel well, where as i am just going to have to do what i can to keep my wheel from crushing my fender.

 

right, but that can be solved by picking the correct wheel offset and rolling the fenders (or, if you're so much into the hardcore show look as it seems, get some flared fenders like JDubs has..)

 

fender flares or tucking the wheel would defeat what i am trying to achieve, but i am digressing.

i will take it that ball joint relocation is the best solution for the geometry issues, however it does not fix the extreme angles of axles. i thought i would be able to have the design of the axles modified to flatten out the angle, but after looking at the design i don't think it will be possible. i will call somebody who would know better than me next week to make sure, but i'm pretty sure thats out. i was discussing this with somebody else and they mentioned raising the motor itself using taller motor mounts. any thoughts on this? because my car is not here i kind of have to work from memory, but the only clearance issues i can come up with are the hood, the exhaust, and the axle itself. i'm sure it's not that simple, so chime in with any other issues.

it is true that i am doing this from a show perspective, but i think a solution would benefit the hardcore track guys the most.

 

raising the engine would be a step backwards, IMO. you run into many other issues, the main one being hood clearance. there's not much room there to begin with.

before you worry too much about the axle angle issues, you need to do a bit of measuring first.
measure the angle of the axle at full STOCK suspension droop and compression.
now measure the angle at your expected suspension geometry. (simply pull the springs out of the coilovers and mount them back on the car. you can then easily use a floor jack under the control arm or wheel to jack the suspension through the full range of travel.)
there's nothing wrong with the axle pointing up as far as it used to be pointing down.
BUT.. you need to check the length of the axles as well. extremely lowered cars run a problem with bottoming out the axle when it goes parallel to the ground. the inner joint actually slides a couple inches inside the housing to allow for the length change needed for suspension travel. if you run into the axle bottoming out, you can possibly call someone like Raxles and have a custom shorter axle fabricated for you. ($$$$$$$, but that doesn't seem to be an issue here).

As for the control arm, look at something like this:

That's for a Z32 rear application, but the front Maxima application should look very similar in overall design.

in addition to that, you will need to use a threaded ball joint like these:
http://ubmachine.com/balljoints.html
using a longer threaded section will allow you to adjust the height of the ball joint in the control arm to fix your steering curves and the adjustable control arm's bottom links will allow you to adjust camber and caster as needed.
you will also need to adjust your tie rod ends, but that's pretty easy once you've done the rest of it.

 

these are some made by the owner of the shop i mentioned. not sure of the apllication, most likely a truck. i guess i need to go to the shop and check the suspension out on the car to get a better idea of whats going on. thanks for the help, i'm definitely brewing up some ideas.

 

gotta love customizing....

 

yeah, i was thinking about this last night as i was trying to go to sleep, and what i am going to do is try to get a beater max to do some measurements on. i am going to try to correct the angle by adjusting the length of the arm and the positioning of the ball joint.

 

Let us know =o I know my car is so low my control arms actually angle upwards
I would love to see something come out to fix this

 

IF the LCA is extended, would the fact that they point up still be a problem?

And there is no fix for the axle problems, besides getting shorter ones.

 

Looks like an upper arm for a chevy to me.

the factory 4/5 gen control arm shouldn't be too hard to cut the end off and weld a threaded section on to adjust height.

 

shock travel length?

 

non-issue here. show car.
+ JIC coilovers, which have adjustable spring perch height and strut mount height. you can change ride height independent of shock travel. good thinking.

 

Just out of curisoty, have you asked around at like SCCA/rolex/pro racing? I mean, sure its out of our league, but they deal with a lot of stuff that can really be helpful. Especially SCCA racing, the GT class(I think its GT, with TSXs, M3s and MS6) run extremely low with large ammounts of negative camber.

Again, just a suggestion, but Ive talked to the crews and teams at the Rolex about certain things and its just a good resource.

Oh and subscribed

 

IMO, osmething like this isn't where you just go talk to someone and try to make it yourself in the garage. it's best to take the car to a race shop where they have experience and pay someone to do the job right the first time. even given the car won't be driven much as its a show car, the last thing you want is for the thing to snap in half while driving down the road. no thanks. consequences are too high to make a mistake.

make sure the guys building the parts know what they're doing. taking it to a race prep shop will be the best resource in that case.

 

i've built suspension components before. i worked as a fabricator in a custom shop for a while doing air suspension (similar to the control arms above). i consider myself a good welder (icar certified) and the more i research the suspension, the more i feel i have the ability to design it as well. however, i will not accept anything less than perfect so if it gets out of my grasp i will hand it over to a professional.

 

if you're capable of doing the fab, at least go through motions of contacting an expert in design- or buy the books the experts have and become one yourself...
1/8" in the wrong direction can mean all kinds of hassles later. I'm going through that now.

 

you know anybody locally who you would recommend?

 

Speed & Performance Engineering is the one that comes to mind right off hand.
They're up on Airline east of I-45.
prices are high, but once you see their work you'll know why.

 

The rear is going to be a challenge, there is going to be a limit as to how flush you can be because of our retarded rear beam...something to look into:

http://vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7218

Its worth a shot, maybe other parts from other cars can fit so long as they are adjustable. Start searching through FSMs and see what you find