Brake Pads... Daily Driver.... Are HPS really miracle pads?
Brake Pads... Daily Driver.... Are HPS really miracle pads?
Are Hawk HPS pads > OEM pads on initial bite???? (say like if someone smart *** on the highway brake checks me since he's looking at the wreck we're passing )
My OEM pads don't ever see brake fade. But that being said, I feel that my brakes are really weak on initial bite and at getting my maxima to a stop quickly enough. If you think you have a better than OEM (semi-metallic) set-up on your daily driver... let me know.
Thanks guys,
Andrew
P.S. where's the link that describes about 10 different pads ? I searched every thread but i'm guessing its down or something...
maxmods.org ... ???
My OEM pads don't ever see brake fade. But that being said, I feel that my brakes are really weak on initial bite and at getting my maxima to a stop quickly enough. If you think you have a better than OEM (semi-metallic) set-up on your daily driver... let me know.
Thanks guys,
Andrew
P.S. where's the link that describes about 10 different pads ? I searched every thread but i'm guessing its down or something...
maxmods.org ... ???
Last edited by AndrewR2442; Dec 28, 2008 at 11:28 PM.
Yes an HPS bites better. An HP+ bites better still.
But keep in mind this: high initial bite is a characteristic of a "performance" pad. Perf. pads are built a little bit more like a race pad, which means they work best when the pads and rotors are hot and have developed a full transfer layer on the rotor. Daily driving does not get the pads hot and rubs away the transfer layer, so if you're driving down the highway like you describe you won't have nearly the bite that you would immediately after the pads are fully bedded in and hot. You have to hit the brakes harder at high speed, no matter what pad you're using.
So my point is that yes you'll get better bite with that type of pad, but it will vary depending on the temperature and state of bedding-in.
If someone brake checks you at high speed because you're tailgating, it's not bad brakes, it's bad driving.
Dave
But keep in mind this: high initial bite is a characteristic of a "performance" pad. Perf. pads are built a little bit more like a race pad, which means they work best when the pads and rotors are hot and have developed a full transfer layer on the rotor. Daily driving does not get the pads hot and rubs away the transfer layer, so if you're driving down the highway like you describe you won't have nearly the bite that you would immediately after the pads are fully bedded in and hot. You have to hit the brakes harder at high speed, no matter what pad you're using.
So my point is that yes you'll get better bite with that type of pad, but it will vary depending on the temperature and state of bedding-in.
If someone brake checks you at high speed because you're tailgating, it's not bad brakes, it's bad driving.
Dave
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,024
Back off, flash the lights when they have room to move over. If they refuse, then pass them when it's safe.
Anything else is encouraging stupidity.
Dave
I agree, tailgating is never the answer. Not only is it unsafe, if somehow the **** hits the fan and you bump the person in front of you. It is your fault. And most likely if they are brake checking you intentionally, they are looking for a lawsuit. Not a cool situation to be in IMO.
Bad Driving Agreed... Don't tailgate me or I WILL slam on my brakes.
To answer your question though the Hawk pads+ really do make a significant difference over the OEM and Semi-Metallic Autozone Junk. Usually it does get a little more squeek when coming to the end of the stop that can be fixed by some brake sprays (It sprays a light film on the rotor)
To answer your question though the Hawk pads+ really do make a significant difference over the OEM and Semi-Metallic Autozone Junk. Usually it does get a little more squeek when coming to the end of the stop that can be fixed by some brake sprays (It sprays a light film on the rotor)
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 995
I think you would be happy with the HPS. I have HPS on my Maxima front and rear, they work great, are quiet and not dirty for performance pads. I have HP+s on my Z32 they work fine cold but really need some heat to perform better than the HPS. The HP+s are noisy and dirty but still work when the HPS start to fade.
Hey back off homo. I only do it to the idiots tailgating me when I'm in the SLOW lane! Some morons expect you to speed up because the guy in the fast lane is driving like a granny! Not my problem, not my fault. Tailing me now because of it? Eat my rear end!
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 81
I put my cruise at 55 on the freeway and if someone gets on my *** I just maintain speed and take solace in the fact that the guy behind me has to grin and bear it until he can get over. I'm not that sadistic that I have to risk causing injury, death, or damage just to **** the guy off more. I'll also live a good few days longer for not having put the pedal down on my blood pressure.
And the thing is, my stock brakes work perfectly for just such a maneuver.
$.02...
And the thing is, my stock brakes work perfectly for just such a maneuver.
$.02...
I need new front brakes so I'm buying brembo blanks and I want street performance pads. I was originally going to get hawk hps pads but see Satisfied GranSport 6 Pads which have the same specs just less noise and lower cost. For anyone that has experience with these please let me know how they worked and how they compare to hps pads if you can.
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 103
Raybestos QS or Satisfied Pro Ceramic
I have been very happy with Raybestos QS (around 60 bucks from Kragen/Advance Auto).
However, on a whim, I wanted to try the cheapest Ceramic - Satisfied Pro fit the Bill (22 bucks) - I have been amazed with the results.
However, on a whim, I wanted to try the cheapest Ceramic - Satisfied Pro fit the Bill (22 bucks) - I have been amazed with the results.
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6
From: kansas
ima plug EBC brakes,
for DD i would rec the greens, if your drive like your high on rice, go for the reds.
and if you know what your doing and have decided your maxima is a 4 door 300Z then i might recommend the yellows!
they also have some kick *** rotors, but unless your taking it out to clubman track days, and autocross. i wouldnt worry about that, just make sure you resurface or replace your rotors.
for DD i would rec the greens, if your drive like your high on rice, go for the reds.
and if you know what your doing and have decided your maxima is a 4 door 300Z then i might recommend the yellows!
they also have some kick *** rotors, but unless your taking it out to clubman track days, and autocross. i wouldnt worry about that, just make sure you resurface or replace your rotors.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 655
From: Silicon Valley
There are no miracle pads. This technology is so old that it is like squeezing a balloon, always a trade off some where.
Staying with factory Akebono or Hitachi pads is as good as any.
Of course there are the racing ceramic stuff. But I think most of us are not going that route on our 4G.
Staying with factory Akebono or Hitachi pads is as good as any.
Of course there are the racing ceramic stuff. But I think most of us are not going that route on our 4G.
Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 60
From: Nor Cal
I put my cruise at 55 on the freeway and if someone gets on my *** I just maintain speed and take solace in the fact that the guy behind me has to grin and bear it until he can get over. I'm not that sadistic that I have to risk causing injury, death, or damage just to **** the guy off more. I'll also live a good few days longer for not having put the pedal down on my blood pressure.
And the thing is, my stock brakes work perfectly for just such a maneuver.
$.02...
And the thing is, my stock brakes work perfectly for just such a maneuver.
$.02...
Haha true true about the brake checking thing... there are often guys who still tailgate me after I am going 7 miles above the speed limit, and after a certain point I'll flash my brake lights twice as a slow down type of thing and if they still won't back off, I'll slam my brakes to scare some sense into them. And then slow down until I am exactly on the speed limit which sometimes is 35 or 25...
There was this one guy who tail gated me for almost 10 miles and then finally screamed past me, only to turn into a McDonalds drive through............ and I was going 6 miles about the speed limit the entire time.... I wish it was easy to ignore but looking back and seeing that car inches from you, is hard to ignore
There was this one guy who tail gated me for almost 10 miles and then finally screamed past me, only to turn into a McDonalds drive through............ and I was going 6 miles about the speed limit the entire time.... I wish it was easy to ignore but looking back and seeing that car inches from you, is hard to ignore
All driving tips aside, what pads are good for daily driving and little dusting? I got the Brembo Blanks and Axiis (Ultimates I think) and they dust like crazy.
I see njmaxseltd recommending Wagner Thermo Quiets.
So, between OEM, Wagners, Raybestos ceramics and HPS, which dust the least?
I see njmaxseltd recommending Wagner Thermo Quiets.
So, between OEM, Wagners, Raybestos ceramics and HPS, which dust the least?
ima plug EBC brakes,
for DD i would rec the greens, if your drive like your high on rice, go for the reds.
and if you know what your doing and have decided your maxima is a 4 door 300Z then i might recommend the yellows!
they also have some kick *** rotors, but unless your taking it out to clubman track days, and autocross. i wouldnt worry about that, just make sure you resurface or replace your rotors.
for DD i would rec the greens, if your drive like your high on rice, go for the reds.
and if you know what your doing and have decided your maxima is a 4 door 300Z then i might recommend the yellows!
they also have some kick *** rotors, but unless your taking it out to clubman track days, and autocross. i wouldnt worry about that, just make sure you resurface or replace your rotors.
Wow, this thread definitely got bumped from last year. Anyway, as far as brakes go, I highly recommend Axxis Ultimate pads.
It is kinda funny, there is the thread at the top of this forum begging for people to send in product reviews. I sent one in, and they don't post it. :-/
Anyway here is what I typed up on my own experiences with the Axxis pads. Might as well put my review to some use I guess. :-/
As for the whole tailgating/brake checking discussion, I feel like if people would just drive like they are supposed to none of it would be an issue.
Rules of the road 101.
Drive in the right lane
Pass in the left lane
Right slow
left fast
It's not that hard. Kinda like red light means stop...green light means go.
I feel like most of the time that people whine about getting tailgated is because they are in front of a laster driver just cruising holding everything up in the left lane.
Most of the time people tailgate is when they are trying to get around a - in the left lane.
Simple. Move over....both problems avoided. IMO it doesn't matter if you are going 5 under, 5 over, or 20 over the limit, if someone is bearing down on your butt in the left lane you move over. I never EVER see problems like this in Europe.
I recently did a road trip in the northwest area of the U.S. and the interstates were unbelievable! There were times where there weren't many people on the road at all. Maybe 5 cars in sight, and sure enough you get two cars cruising side by side at exactly the speed limit. Or people just driving in the left lane for the sh**s sake of driving there. I hate it. If everything worked the way it should nobody should have to tailgate or overtake someone on the right. Ever.
It is kinda funny, there is the thread at the top of this forum begging for people to send in product reviews. I sent one in, and they don't post it. :-/
Anyway here is what I typed up on my own experiences with the Axxis pads. Might as well put my review to some use I guess. :-/
Originally Posted by modenaf1
Product - Axxis Ultimate Ceramic Brake Pad Set
Cost - $95
Bought From - Ebay Motors
Review:
My OEM brake pads wore out completely and after doing some research and trying to decide between Hawk HPS, EBC pads, and Axxis Ultimates, I went for the Axxis. I chose these because based on what I heard the Hawk's make more noise and all around the Axxis pads were a good choice.I couldn't have been more happy with the purchase.
Noise
They apparently have an "integrated" shim, however I installed my old shims on top anyway and put a good amount of brake lube around all surfaces that contact the calipers. These pads don't so make so much as a peep. I was very surprised, they are as quiet as my OEM pads.
Braking performance
These pads are like night and day in comparison with the OEM's. Being a performance oriented pad, they claim these will have similar or slightly less initial cold bite as the OEM's. I have found this is not the case. Initial bite seems to be better, once they are warm, these pads bite VERY hard and it takes probably about twice as much heavy braking to get to the point of brake fade.
I recently took my car to the track (running the 1/4 mile). I showed up early and was able to get run after run in back to back without any cool down time, and after 4 consecutive 1/4 mile runs within 20 minutes, I had no problems slowing the car down from 100mph.
I do a lot of aggressive driving on steep mountain roads as well, and I assure you these pads make me a lot more confident and I can usually push them harder and longer, sometimes not even having to back off to let the pads cool where in contrast I would have to lay off after 5 minutes because I would cook the factory pads to the point of scary brake fade.
While these pads are fantastic and are very hard to fade, here is a word of warning. While the OEM pads fade very early and easily, you can feel the brake fade progressively building up. With the Axxis Ultimate's, they will go from being in their sweet spot to brake fade much faster, so while the point is much higher, you have less warning before fading them.
Installation and breaking in
These pads have a break in spot built into them that cleans the rotor/aids initial brake bedding.
Don't be alarmed, the first time you drive the car, the breaking performance will be ABYSMAL. This is normal and is part of the initial coating.
What I did was wait for it to be very late at night before I took the car out for the first time, and I gently rode and applied the brakes in varying pressures to slowly heat up the brakes and let the break in coating do its job. I did all this while constantly moving, never stopping the car. Once the brakes started to bite much harder, I then performed a standard bedding procedure, where once the brakes were warmed up, I accelerated to 65-70 very aggressively, and applied the brakes with about 60 percent force down to 15. Got on the gas hard back up to 70 again, applied the brakes with about 70 percent force this time, then repeated and applied the brakes with as much as I could without locking a tire or invoking the abs. It is very important not to lock a tire or invoke the abs because it defeats the purpose of brake bedding and will cause uneven build up on your rotors. I did this procedure until I could feel the very slight onset of brake fade, then drove the car on the highway for about 20-25 minutes without touching the brakes to let them cool. It is very important to not stop the car at all while the brakes are hot. This is the procedure I use to bed brakes that I find successful, and in no way am I or Maxima.org recommending this or responsible for any consequences resulting from attempting this.
Dust
The one drawback of these pads definitely is the brake dust. These pads dust heavily. I notice buildup on my wheels at the end of every day, varying on how much and how hard I drive.
Unlike OEM pads however, this dust doesn't seem to bake onto my wheels no matter how much I let it build up. I once let it build up for months to the point where my buddy thought I had painted my wheels gunmetal grey, and I could still just take a cloth or paper towel and wipe it right off. No scrubbing required.
Longevity
I haven't driven the car even a year yet with these pads on, nor have I taken them off the car and done any precise measurements on how much pad is left, but the impression I get from looking at them is that *I think* they definitely are wearing out faster than OEM pads, which is definitely to be expected for a performance pad like this.
Pros:
- Very good bite while cold for a performance pad
- EXCELLENT bite when hot
- High limits before experiencing fade.
- Silent
- Easy to bed
- Brake dust can be cleaned from wheels very easily
Cons:
- Dust, dust, dust, and more dust
- Not as much progressive warning if you do manage to fade them
- Possibly shorter life than OEM
Conclusion
- When this set wears out, I am purchasing another set straight up.
By: modenaf1
------------
Cost - $95
Bought From - Ebay Motors
Review:
My OEM brake pads wore out completely and after doing some research and trying to decide between Hawk HPS, EBC pads, and Axxis Ultimates, I went for the Axxis. I chose these because based on what I heard the Hawk's make more noise and all around the Axxis pads were a good choice.I couldn't have been more happy with the purchase.
Noise
They apparently have an "integrated" shim, however I installed my old shims on top anyway and put a good amount of brake lube around all surfaces that contact the calipers. These pads don't so make so much as a peep. I was very surprised, they are as quiet as my OEM pads.
Braking performance
These pads are like night and day in comparison with the OEM's. Being a performance oriented pad, they claim these will have similar or slightly less initial cold bite as the OEM's. I have found this is not the case. Initial bite seems to be better, once they are warm, these pads bite VERY hard and it takes probably about twice as much heavy braking to get to the point of brake fade.
I recently took my car to the track (running the 1/4 mile). I showed up early and was able to get run after run in back to back without any cool down time, and after 4 consecutive 1/4 mile runs within 20 minutes, I had no problems slowing the car down from 100mph.
I do a lot of aggressive driving on steep mountain roads as well, and I assure you these pads make me a lot more confident and I can usually push them harder and longer, sometimes not even having to back off to let the pads cool where in contrast I would have to lay off after 5 minutes because I would cook the factory pads to the point of scary brake fade.
While these pads are fantastic and are very hard to fade, here is a word of warning. While the OEM pads fade very early and easily, you can feel the brake fade progressively building up. With the Axxis Ultimate's, they will go from being in their sweet spot to brake fade much faster, so while the point is much higher, you have less warning before fading them.
Installation and breaking in
These pads have a break in spot built into them that cleans the rotor/aids initial brake bedding.
Don't be alarmed, the first time you drive the car, the breaking performance will be ABYSMAL. This is normal and is part of the initial coating.
What I did was wait for it to be very late at night before I took the car out for the first time, and I gently rode and applied the brakes in varying pressures to slowly heat up the brakes and let the break in coating do its job. I did all this while constantly moving, never stopping the car. Once the brakes started to bite much harder, I then performed a standard bedding procedure, where once the brakes were warmed up, I accelerated to 65-70 very aggressively, and applied the brakes with about 60 percent force down to 15. Got on the gas hard back up to 70 again, applied the brakes with about 70 percent force this time, then repeated and applied the brakes with as much as I could without locking a tire or invoking the abs. It is very important not to lock a tire or invoke the abs because it defeats the purpose of brake bedding and will cause uneven build up on your rotors. I did this procedure until I could feel the very slight onset of brake fade, then drove the car on the highway for about 20-25 minutes without touching the brakes to let them cool. It is very important to not stop the car at all while the brakes are hot. This is the procedure I use to bed brakes that I find successful, and in no way am I or Maxima.org recommending this or responsible for any consequences resulting from attempting this.
Dust
The one drawback of these pads definitely is the brake dust. These pads dust heavily. I notice buildup on my wheels at the end of every day, varying on how much and how hard I drive.
Unlike OEM pads however, this dust doesn't seem to bake onto my wheels no matter how much I let it build up. I once let it build up for months to the point where my buddy thought I had painted my wheels gunmetal grey, and I could still just take a cloth or paper towel and wipe it right off. No scrubbing required.
Longevity
I haven't driven the car even a year yet with these pads on, nor have I taken them off the car and done any precise measurements on how much pad is left, but the impression I get from looking at them is that *I think* they definitely are wearing out faster than OEM pads, which is definitely to be expected for a performance pad like this.
Pros:
- Very good bite while cold for a performance pad
- EXCELLENT bite when hot
- High limits before experiencing fade.
- Silent
- Easy to bed
- Brake dust can be cleaned from wheels very easily
Cons:
- Dust, dust, dust, and more dust
- Not as much progressive warning if you do manage to fade them
- Possibly shorter life than OEM
Conclusion
- When this set wears out, I am purchasing another set straight up.
By: modenaf1
------------
As for the whole tailgating/brake checking discussion, I feel like if people would just drive like they are supposed to none of it would be an issue.
Rules of the road 101.
Drive in the right lane
Pass in the left lane
Right slow
left fast
It's not that hard. Kinda like red light means stop...green light means go.
I feel like most of the time that people whine about getting tailgated is because they are in front of a laster driver just cruising holding everything up in the left lane.
Most of the time people tailgate is when they are trying to get around a - in the left lane.
Simple. Move over....both problems avoided. IMO it doesn't matter if you are going 5 under, 5 over, or 20 over the limit, if someone is bearing down on your butt in the left lane you move over. I never EVER see problems like this in Europe.
I recently did a road trip in the northwest area of the U.S. and the interstates were unbelievable! There were times where there weren't many people on the road at all. Maybe 5 cars in sight, and sure enough you get two cars cruising side by side at exactly the speed limit. Or people just driving in the left lane for the sh**s sake of driving there. I hate it. If everything worked the way it should nobody should have to tailgate or overtake someone on the right. Ever.
Last edited by modenaf1; Oct 15, 2009 at 03:02 AM.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 14
I believe that the Hawks were a HUGE improvement over the OEM. What I learned the hard way is that bleeding your brakes is just as important to initial bite as the pad type.
I couldn't for the life of me figure why the first set of pads were awesome and subsequent pads sucked. The brake fluid was toast.
I couldn't for the life of me figure why the first set of pads were awesome and subsequent pads sucked. The brake fluid was toast.
If you are just driving it around regular then I really dont think it matters. I had terrible fade with the factory pads after a single hard braking from 100-20 then the brakes where pretty much worthless and the pads smoked like steam boat.
I changed to PBR metal masters and have been very.. very happy. When the factory pads get hot.. brake fade can be a serious problem.
BTW.. I could use a new rear bumper skin so if you tailgated me I would be happy to get one at your expense lol
I changed to PBR metal masters and have been very.. very happy. When the factory pads get hot.. brake fade can be a serious problem.
BTW.. I could use a new rear bumper skin so if you tailgated me I would be happy to get one at your expense lol
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1
I was on tirerack.com looking at the brake pads being offered and wanted to know how can one tell which one to get.
On the site, it shows two models for each type of brake pads,
1. up to 3/99
2 after 4/99
Where on the car can you find out which one to get?
On the site, it shows two models for each type of brake pads,
1. up to 3/99
2 after 4/99
Where on the car can you find out which one to get?
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